Single man meets survivor with double mastectomy

mrdilema

I am ashamed of myself. I am genuinely an empathetic and sensitive person. I have been said to be too empathetic and sensitive by many people. I think we all have superficial things about us. Some, much more pronounced and problematic to a point of shallowness.

I am far from shallow. But...I cannot help my situation and I am very upset about it. Ashamed in fact.

I met a wonderful woman, and we have hit it off in how we both view the world and relationships and many things. I have great respect for her, as she is a mental health professional and does very important work that she loves. She is a very impressive and special human being. I love her smile and her eyes. Other parts I initially noticed that I like too, to be candid.

But I had no idea what she had gone through, until she recently told me the story. And that scared me on a number of levels. Would she relapse? And when we were together, she has pretty pronounced scars and did not have reconstructive surgery (I dare not ask her why).

My attraction to her, which is a large part of an early dating relationship for me (and I imagine many people) has gone cold. I immensely enjoy her company and her wit and everything else. But I can't manage to muster a sexual attraction. I can't help it. I think about it a lot and get mad at myself, feeling horribly shallow. The guilt is eating me up.

I have no idea what to do. I cant imagine hurting her, and it is clear she is a bit further along in the attachment than I am. But we talk everyday pretty much now and get together on off weekends from her kids.

I haven no idea what to do.

Y'all are probably going to beat me up over this. Maybe I deserve that.

Have at it. Please offer any words of advice you can offer.

voraciousreader

may I ask how old are you and why you are single?

I will simply say that imagine how hard it must be for her to share such intimate details about herself. While it is very kind of you to share these intimate feelings about her with us, perhaps you should be honest with her as she has been with you and see where that takes you. She might tell you to get lost....or...she might be as amazing as you say she is and she might tell you leave and take some time.....and if she says the latter, you would be a fool to let her go.

Think about why you are single. Do you often do the breaking up? Perhaps a good reading of erich fromm’s The art of loving can help

wrenn

Having had double mastectomies without reconstruction helping you with your dilemma is leaving me feeling flaccid. Sorry.

Rowan47

Not really sure what you're wanting to hear.... you seem to have high regard for this lady's personality, character and charm, so how could her not having breasts be important? Sorry, but it does not reflect well on you and does seem shallow. If, however, as you say there is no sexual attraction because of this, you should be honest with her and apologise for wasting her time. She will probably be thankful to know this now, rather than later. This surgery really sorts "the men from the boys".

Traveltext

I'm a man who has been treated for breast cancer and I'm unreconstructed on the cancer side. This doesn't stop me from having sexual desires and my partner couldn't care less about the aesthetics of my chest. I'd suggest you've met a very nice person, and if it's just her unreconstructed chest that turns you off, youre a bit of a shallow person. If breasts are what you value in a relationship, then you've come to the wrong place for sympathy.

Wildplaces

What makes you think she is more attached ??

Maybe, and I say this in earnest, she wants you for your body and NOT your mind or soul.

She went through a rough time - she is cutting herself some slack, having a little fun.

And once you undress there is really no way of hiding a mastectomy without recon ( I have one ) - I wouldn't take that as opening up to you. I would take it as someone who knows life is precious. It's not a reflection of you but of her life and her strength.

Having said that - I believe you are hooked. What is it with " I love her eyes and her smile" bit??

I don't think your "attraction has gone cold" - guys split without much remorse/or self analysis when that happens - especially early in a relationship - I think YOU are terrified it's cancer.

So - you have two choices:

1. Beig honest about what is really bugging you?

- her cancer

- her chance of dying

( part of this honesty is facing your own mortality, just because you don't have cancer NOW does not mean you will always have a clean bill of health - none of us know how long we have on this Earth. Some harsh stats 30% die of heart disease, 30% dementia, 30% cancer and the rest falls in "other")

- her breasts or lack of

2. Not being honest about it.

anyway you cut this - from your post she is out there living her best life to the fullest, you are here ...

It's ok for you to be terrified - cancer is a shit diagnosis, but it's not a death sentence for all.

Wildplaces

Ohh and if you are wondering how do I know you are more caught up than she is - it's in your post.

She - would be forty plus - a demographic that fits for double mastectomy norecon, one relationship that resulted in children but no longer exists, cancer and a work position of leadership - that would have taken around ten years to build. That makes for two high stress life events at least and the stamina of someone who is able to stick at things and not losejoy. She is unlikely to trust easily, no matter how charming you may feel you are.

You - probably no children, and if children, not with you regularly, maybe not quite on par professionally, definitely not super strong professionally and financially, maybe even one or two years younger. Your last relationship that lasted 10 years plus was ????

And so it goes...

Lucy55

Seriously ..??? She is too good for You..

DATNY

When you are new to the whole breast cancer business, it can shake you to the core... especially the details, the implications, the scars, if you have't seen anything like that before. But eventually it becomes normal and you'll move over this barrier. At the end of the day, when you are in your forties, breasts are two blobs of fat hanging out from the chest. Can't let something beautiful to be ruined by this.

muska

Ladies and gentlemen, Mrdilema came here to get advice not to be chastised for what he has little control over - lack of physical attraction to a mutilated woman’s body. I am a woman who had double mastectomy ( w recon) and I have been on AI for four years so I know what lack of attraction means. I can relate to what the OP is saying - it is a tough situation and difficult decision to make but no reason to judge him for opening his heart to us

DATNY

I beg to disagree with using the word mutilated to describe a woman without breasts. First of all the act of mutilation implies violence, which is not the case here. Or implies serious damage, which again is not the case, except for young women that cannot breastfeed due to the lack of breast tissue or if sexual function (of the woman) is completey disrupted due to removing the principal arousal area. For the rest of us who are older, removing our breast literarely means removing two blobs of fat hanging out from the chest area. Yes, they do have sexual function, but in the most cases the brain gets retrained quickly to compensate for their absence. If we feel bad about having no breasts, either because we had a strong attachment to these parts of the body or because we look a little different from the rest of the women, or because we are somehow tricked to believe this is a horrendous thing by the rest of the world, this does not mean we are mutilated. We are FULLY functional, whole human beings with chest scars.

pupmom

Yes, it's shallow, but being physically attracted is part of every relationship. Been married for almost 27 years, but when I was single I rejected some, otherwise, great men because I just wasn't attracted to them. You should be honest with her about where you're coming from, though.

I also think it's very different when the relationship is new. My husband actually did not want me to get any reconstruction because he was worried about more surgeries. But at that time we had been married for 21 years. I did the recon for my own vanity reasons, and he loved the results.

muska

@DATNY - removing a body part is mutilation but let's not argue about the semantics here. I am not offended by this word anyhow and no one should be. Sexual desires differ from individual to individual - whether male or female - and are different in the people of the same age too. Something in the OP's post makes me think he is a bit younger than the majority of us on this board.

Mrdilema is very honest in his post and I respect that. He has the right to be happy too - whatever that means to him. I agree with the posters above who advised an honest conversation with the girlfriend. That being said I suspect you might be overestimating your girlfriend's emotional attachment. Based on your description she is a mature professional woman, has children and is a cancer survivor. From someone who shares a similar profile I would assume she is quite strong on her feet and would survive the end of this relationship easier than you think. You said she is a mental health professional which means she reads people well (including you) and is most likely capable to compartmentalize well.

I honestly wish you manage to change your mind and things work out but if they don't - not the end of the world and you should not feel guilty or "shallow." Same might happen to her very easily with so many things on her plate and in her life.

Speaking of cancer, I have a great-aunt who will turn 95 this year. She had breast cancer and was treated by mastectomy alone (no reconstruction then) some 40 years ago. She hasn't had any cancer since. Still has her smarts but has gone blind (glaucoma.)

Best to all.

DATNY

@muska, l am not offended by the word mutilated. However, I don't use it to describe myself out of respect for people who are truly mutilated through violence or because lost body functions and experience hardship on a whole other level than I would ever experience because my anaesthetic chest scars.

wrenn

Would it be ok for me to go to amputees dot org and say "people with amputations turn me off can you help me to feel better about this?"

SummerAngel

I object to asking why this poster is single. Seriously? I'm single, does that mean there's something wrong with me? Wow...

Mrdilema, as for the problem you're having, I agree with the poster who said that it may just take some getting used to. The look of a woman with mastectomies and no reconstruction is quite different and can be a shock at first. Maybe you just need some time. Talk to her about your hesitations. You may be surprised to find that it becomes less of an issue over time.

smc123

mrdilema, I applaud your honesty. My husband and I have been married for twenty years and we have had our ups and downs. One of the hardest has been my breast cancer battle. He was always a "breast" guy and since my double mastectomy and reconstruction he has not touched or looked at them. I really don't even want him to touch my new breasts because they don't feel sexy to me anymore and they still hurt. Sometimes I wonder if I should I feel sorry for my husband...the former "breast guy" but then I am reminded of our marriage vows...sickness and health. I deserve compassion and love despite the status of my breasts. I am hopeful in time my husband and I can heal from this and we will both be ok with my new breasts. Something to remember is no one knows what is to come in a relationship. You could move on to another wonderful and healthy woman and she could get sick too.

waytooanxiousmommy

You seem like a genuine person who wants to do the right thing. Here are my thoughts

I think your not feeling the attraction has not to do with how her lack of boobs looks but its about what it represents. Which is you could fall in love with her and lose her. Yet that could happen with any partner. You could always lose them for a multitude of reasons.

She was honest but you on the other hand turned to strangers about your fears instead of having an honest conversation with her. This means that you are afraid of intimacy. You think your revealing your fears will lead to her rejecting you or it will somehow make you a bad person. We feel what we feel and our feelings are never wrong. You have to be able to show your real self to have successful relationships. I have a fear or intimacy too and I have found therapy to be incredibly helpful and a book that really nails this is "fear of intimacy" by Dr Robert Firestone

If I were you I would reveal my fears to her and ask her if she would be open to doing a few months of couples therapy with you. Even if you guys don't stay together it will really help you do better in your future relationships. In the best case scenario you could find yourself in a loving and lasting relationship

My very best to you

NotVeryBrave

I don't think that anyone can truthfully know much at all about the woman in question from this man's post. It's hard to know too much about him for that matter. But a lot of sexual attraction starts in the mind ...

Perhaps the OP should stop dwelling on this woman's lack of breasts and his response to that and simply see where the relationship goes?

mustlovepoodles

Honestly, mrdilema, i get it. I *do* describe myself as mutilated because there is simply no better descriptor for my situation. I don't even want to look at myself and i sure as shit am not going to let my DH look at me. Its that bad. Thankfully, we've been married 37 years, so we have a long history together working through stuff. That's a lot harder with a new relationship.

I don't think you're a terrible person for not being sexually attracted to this lady friend. Attraction is a fickle thing--its hard to talk ourselves into being attracted to someone when were just not. I think you need to be honest with yourself and your lady. If you are not attracted to her you need to let her move on to someone who can see past her scars. She deserves more from the relationship than you are able to give.

rainnyc

Um, be nice, folks. This is a tough dilemma.

I'll take a stab. Sexual attraction is complicated, and I don't think you're responsible for your feelings, but it's clear you need to address them with this woman if you want the relationship to continue. And she sounds like a keeper, so why not at least try? You say she's a mental health professional; don't you think she's probably guessed how you're feeling? Maybe it would be a relief for you both to have the conversation?

If you think you'll honestly, in your heart, never again feel sexual attraction for her, then break up with her now, rather than prolong the unhappiness.

But sexual attraction IS about much more than breasts, which of course you know. Spend some time with her, face to face, and see if you remember the things that attracted you in the first place, which you implied included her wit, her personality, and other, presumably, physical aspects. Maybe it will come back, and you'll surprise yourself. And maybe it won't. Stop being so hard on yourself, and give yourself a little time to process this--while you continue the friendship--and then try a really honest conversation. Is some of the problem the chance of recurrence? Or is it just about making love without (her) breasts?

And believe me, whatever you're feeling about making love post-mastectomy, she's feeling it too--and then some. (I say this from experience, and I've been married for a long time.)

Good luck to you! I hope you can make it work. But no matter what happens, it sounds as if you're enriched by her friendship, and that's no small thing.

voraciousreader

summer...the only reason why I question why he is single is because he wants a relationship....just so you will know if you are unfamiliar with Erich Fromm’s The Art of Loving...Fromm proposes the Love is a verb, an action word that therefore requires work. He discusses all the types of loving....motherly love, the loving a child has for his/her family, romantic loving, etc....

For those who are single and want to be in a relationship, that is, ANY kind of relationship, The Art of Loving does a wonderful job of explaining the commitment process that loving requires....and I will offer one tip from the book....one needs to be able to and the desire to take risks....

Perhaps the unreconstructed breasts might deep inside of him instill nervousness about the future...most of us warriors know, risk happens every morning when we wake up and open our eyes....and yet, we welcome each day.....Sadly, there are too many warriors and their loved ones who are too frightened, too often, to face the future....

As I said, and so many posters followed in kind, his candor should be respected...while those who took jabs should also be respected....perhaps with all of our thoughts, he might grow enlightened....and ultimately be attracted to her....and be a willing partner, working on loving..

Linda19152

What would i do if i were in this situation?

Recommend counseling for you to learn to

Appreciate the good in someone instead of

concentration on the bad.

Sara536

Somehow this brings up the spector of rape. A person's personality, feelings, plans, and personal desires are ignored or voided without permission. First by the disease and subsequent treatments that disfigure the body and subject it to poisons. Then comes the need to apologize and/or hide beceause he or she is now considered responsible and deficient. Some are lucky to have supportive and understanding partners and friends as they try to put their lives back together.....

wrenn

What bothers me most about this is how much the woman with cancer is put in the background while the OP makes this all about himself. She dodged one here.

farmerlucy

One of the silver linings to this dx is that each of us is confronted with our own mortality, many for the first time. That changes how we see the world. No one is getting out alive, no one is getting out without scars. Crap happens to anyone, anytime.

Wildplaces

Although the OP brings up the complex issue of continuing a satisfying sex life in the face of surgery and cancer. The writer asks for advice? Specifically What advice??

- how to tell a person you are not attracted to them purely because they are breastless

- how to walk away from this and not feel ashamed?

- how to become turned on by someone who currently does not enable you to muster an attraction.

DATNY and Muska - mutilation is a strong emotive word and Muska, I think you knew that when you used. I am not offended by the word but a little surprised in this context.

The sad reality is that the spectrum of results from surgery varies depending on the size of women breast, size of cancer, need for radiation, age, expectations, general wellbeing, subsequent infections - and unfortunately ranges from poor results alike mutilations to good reconstructions that women feel ok about. Language matters.

For me mustlovepoodles sums it up " she deserves more ...than you are able to give"

That is ok MrD - but it does not make you a resourceful strong person. So your journey continues...

Take this with you - shit happens - how would you be if it was you mutilated and faced with this dilemma 5 years in a relationship? You can not assume that if you start with a full deck you will always have it - look for the qualities that endure, to save your ass when the going gets tough.

PS if your post was testing waters to see how she might react - its impossible to tell how anyone reacts - SHE will react the way SHE is, just don't lie for too long, that breaks both of you up

Wildplaces

MrD - do you work with this woman - is sh your superior ?

Is that what makes you telling her complicated?

Just an inkling.

fluffycats

Just tell her you want to be friends. If you're at a stage in your life where you can't find her attractive because of her surgeries, set her free to find someone that will. You may regret it someday but she deserves to be with someone who accepts her as is. With no physical attraction, you're just going to leave at some point anyway

Shellsatthebeach

Ironic her biggest battle she moved on from is what scares you now. This is your weakness.....this is her strength. She is alive and she is living life. Don't feel bad for her. She sounds like a strong person in every way....career, raising kids, thriving and surviving cancer....she is full woman with or without boobs.

If you don't want to be with her, she will move on and continue to live her life to the fullest with career and family and perhaps other men. I can tell you from my perceptive cancer teaches you life is too short to waste.

Cheers

IntegraGirl

I’m not sure what you think you’re going to get here. If you’re not attracted to her physically, that’s just the deal. I don’t think that makes you shallow. Men are, I think, pretty visual and breasts are a big part of the sexuality mix from my experience. I had great breasts! We had a good run until they tried to kill me last year. I think I look like a deformed sock puppet and can’t imagine letting anyone see me naked at this point. I hate what I see in the mirror. It’s not a sexy look .

If you can’t handle it, just don’t waste her time. I don’t mean this unkindly but with everything she’s been through and survived, having new guy walk likely won’t be on her Top 50 Shitty Things list