Am I crazy for trying an alternative treatment?

CindyNY

I wish the best for you. If you feel many "lumps" it might just be cysts that showed up. Stay positive! You'll be back home before you know it.

illimae

Yes, shrinking tumors is a good sign and I’m sorry to hear that it’s been emotionally draining lately. I can’t imagine being so far from home for so long, especially under such stressful conditions. The response to heat is very interesting. Can’t wait to see what new imaging shows. Good luck.

Heidihill

Great news on the shrinking. What's left could be dead cells. All that sunbathing amounted to massive doses of Vitamin D as well as infrared and other components of sunlight. 

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/study-vitamin-d-kills-cancer-cells/story?id=9904415

Paco

shocked, I'm following your journey with great interest and am sending good vibes that your treatment in China will put you in remission.

My daughter was pushing me to try the alternative treatments but I went with conventional for now. I have checked out acupuncture for pain and will supplement with herbs once the cancer is gone. Thousands of years of history in Chinese medicine is hard to deny, but I wish it was better tested here, to really put my mind at ease.

The very best to you, Shocked. I'm rooting for you!

shockedat29

Hi everyone,

I think the acupuncture was only a small piece as to why my tumor seems to be gone (not saying it is definitely gone until I get my test results.) I took it upon myself to massage some acupuncture points that promote white blood cells growth. I used these two links to find out what points to massage:

https://www.herbalshop.com/natural-healing/acupres...
http://www.modernreflexology.com/acupressure-points-for-immune-system/

I had trouble finding some of these points, so I googled images. Some images tell you pressures points are "cun" spaces away. I had no idea what this was, luckily my mom knew.

This is how acupuncture measures distances:
3 cun = 4 finger spaces (index to pinky)
2 cun = 3 finger spaces (index to ring finger)
1 cun = 2 finger spaces (index & middle)

Massage doesn't hurt your cancer progress, so I would say do it at home when you have time to try to create some white blood cells. Sometimes I take a pen or a stick of some sort to really get into the pressure point. It's supposed to hurt when you find them, so if the pressure point doesn't hurt, you probably haven't found it yet.

Also, remember to drink WARM water after massaging so it washes out the toxins. My mom constantly has me drink warm/hot water, NO cold/room temp water.

The main function of the acupuncture was to balance my yin and yang, but I don't think it was the biggest factor for my tumor shrinkage/disappearance. I think the moxibustion helped the most in killing the cancer cells. We use HUGE moxi sticks that are 7 cm in diameter, so the heat covers a large area. Most of the photos of moxa sticks you see online are like teeny tiny 1 inch diameter sticks. I used to not believe in moxibustion because the studies I read had inconclusive results on its effectiveness, but now I believe that maybe the technique in those studies weren't correct or they were using the teeny tiny sticks. Who knows! Moxibustion is just hyperthermia! When my mom did it on me when I was here on (I think it was) Day 10, the tumor was moving around like crazy! My mom's eyes kind of looked like they were popping out of her eye sockets because she was so surprised. Also, after rereading my original post, I realized that I noticed some changes in the tumor even before I left for China. The week leading up to China, I was using hand warmer heatpacks on my tumor for 2 hours/day, but the heatpacks don't create a constant source of heat. I also read that whole body hyperthermia is more effective, but I'm not sure where to get that. I kind of imagined trying this myself by running a bath and putting a couple of sous vide machines to maintain a constant heat. I don't think I'm going to do that though, it's kind of ridiculous. I can have an imagination sometimes...

I'm not really sure where you can get moxibustion in the US though, because it creates a lot of smoke. And we in the US love to be safe, with our smoke detectors, which is a wonderful thing, but bad for moxibustion seekers! BUT being the lucky person that I am, my mom shipped a ton back from China when she came to visit a few years ago and it's just been sitting in the garage. Apparently, in TCM, you need to continue treatment for 100 days straight, so I'll be moving back home with my parents for a little to do moxibustion with my mom's help.

As for herbs, the only thing I bought from the herb store here was Fu Ling. I brew a tea out of it.

When I got to China, they said I was lacking yang and I had a lot of dampness in me. The acupuncture was to balance my yin&yang and the sitting in the sun was to give me yang. The Fu Ling tea is supposed to dispel dampness, and my mom also made me some type of black bean/red bean soup thing to also dispel dampness. The first two nights that I drank the tea and ate the bean soup, my legs were sweating at night. I didn't even know my legs could sweat because they never have before.

I just reread what I just wrote and if all this didn't really happen to me, I would think I was exaggerating and being ridiculous. LOL

5 more days in china and I am outta here. I really can't wait to leave!

shockedat29

Heidihill,

Thank you for the link! Although I haven't gotten tested, I wouldn't be surprised if I did lack Vit D.

Since I was a kid, I used to stay out of the sun and apply sunblock liberally. I usually never walk out of the house without sunscreen on my face and usually all body parts are covered. I always thought I was taking good care of my skin by avoiding UVA/UVB rays, but little did I know I was depriving myself of a much needed vitamin.

When I get back home, you bet your bottom I'll be out in the sun more!!

NotVeryBrave

I have no idea of what I'm talking about here, but ... what about hot tub use for hyperthermia? Would that work?

shockedat29

Hey NotVeryBrave,

I haven't considered hot tubs because most are filled with chlorine, but you've just reminded me about natural hot springs. I went to one once as a kid and thought it was the coolest thing.

I just looked up the temperature for hot tubs and most are between 100-102 degrees. I think hyperthermia treatments can go as high as 113 degrees. (The heatpacks I bought went up to 113 degrees.) I think I read somewhere that people who do get whole body hyperthermia are closely monitored because they experience dehydration or something like that.

So...I guess I didn't answer your question, haha!

CindyNY

I've used moxi sticks in the past on my thumb arthritis. I've purchased them thru Amazon. I saw an acupuncturist for the severe pain in my thumb, he gave me one to try. I used them for about a year, give or take. I sat outside when I used it, 30+ year exsmoker, I didn't want the smoke in my house. I'm a full upstate NY skeptic, but they worked. Also I have seen an acupuncturist for back pain; bulging disks hitting a nerve at L2, L3, L4 & L5, it eliminated my pain. They know what they're doing.

I'm hoping the best for you. Just because western medicine poo poos the idea of something, doesn't mean it doesn't work.

LisaAlissa

Haven't any idea if it would help, but how about a dry sauna? (It would definitely feel good, at least.)

LisaAlissa

NotVeryBrave

I would expect that whole body hyperthermia might have some cardiac and nervous system concerns. It would probably require either monitoring or limiting factors. But good to keep thinking!

shockedat29

Hey CindyNY,

Whoa, I can't believe you've used moxa sticks before! Cool!

Be careful about doing moxibustion outdoors though. Apparently, you're supposed to be in a warm environment where you shouldn't feel any wind. After I get moxibustion done on an area, I immediately cover it with a towel so that it stays warm. I'll attach an article sent to me by my mother about moxibustion. It's all in Chinese though, I had to use a translator to figure out what it was saying. The translation doesn't fully make sense, but the big ideas are there.

http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/or3IjloPqUC9eWJP2Weewg

Hm....Do you have a garage you can do moxibustion in? I wouldn't want the smoke in my house either. The first time I smelled it, I thought my mom was burning weed. haha!

CindyNY

When I used the moxa stick I sat on our front lanai in FL, screened on the front w 3 sides of wall. But yes I do have a garage in NY & FL. Thanks for the tip.

AliceKo

yes, keep us posted!

CindyNY

Shockedat29- Guessing by the date, your back in the states. Any update?

shockedat29

Hi cindyNY,

Yes I'm back! My follow up appt is on 4/20. I'm super anxious but also worried I won't hear what I want to hear....sighhh

I've been continuing moxibustion at my mother's home in southern California. I live in an apartment in northern California, so I can't do the treatments at my place. There's too much smoke. I've also been massaging the points that are supposed to strengthen my immune system. We'll see..... I'm going to drive up with my mom on Thursday and screening/meeting with my Dr is on Friday.

Today, I started watching the 9 episode documentary "the truth about cancer," and depending on the news I hear on Friday, I might turn into a full blown conspiracy theorist...

CindyNY

May the force be with you on Friday! I'm hoping for the best for you. Keep us posted.

Momine

Shocked, hope your appointment goes well. Don't put too much stock in "The Truth About Cancer." It is mostly gibberish.

AliceKo

Yes, best of luck to you!

mdevroy

Good luck keep us posted

shockedat29

Hey guys,

So my appointment was yesterday. I got a mammogram and an ultrasound.

The ultrasound confirmed that the tumor is not distinct anymore. My surgeon described it as "melting" like cheese does, but there's still a mass. The original dimensions of the tumor was 10x4x6 mm (but on the report I got yesterday, it said the previous dimensions were 10x8x6mm, maybe there was a mistake somewhere), now the "melted" mass is 7x4x7mm. When I asked if the melted mass was dead or active cancer cells, they said they didn't know.

On the mammogram, it showed that my precancerous cells didn't change in size.

My surgeon still wants me to go through with surgery and the standard treatment. I'm pretty sure their thinking is that, if anything is still there, then we need to just get it out! But...my mom says there's improvement and that cancer takes years to form, it needs time to go away. A lot of people have different opinions and it just makes it difficult for me to decide what to do/process. The doctors are going to set me up with a couple of other doctors for second opinions. I want to continue with the all natural treatment, but as you all know, it's scary to think what if it doesn't work.

I spoke to an old college friend from years ago who studied chinese medicine and is really into health. She referred me to watch Dr. Robert Morse ND on youtube. Apparently, this guy advocates an all fruit diet to detox the body (not a forever diet). He has helped thousands of people with various ailments, including cancers and stage 4 cancers just with the all fruit detox and some herbs. My friend says that she's helped herself and her patients with the all fruit diet too. He says people get cancer because the kidneys/lymphatic systems aren't working correctly to detox the body. He says that you can check if your kidneys are working if you pee in a cup and let it settle and see a cloudiness at the bottom. If it's completely clear, then your kidneys aren't working properly. If there is a cloudiness at the bottom, then it is working. Last night, my pee was almost completely clear. Today after eating some fruit, it's got a mild murkiness. So maybe it's working. Has anyone heard about Dr. Robert Morse before/tried his methods? I'm going to search the forum after this.

hapa

That is frankly amazing for a non-toxic, uninvasive treatment. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

radgal

Not sure if this might apply to you but I underwent a lumpectomy and intraoperative radiotherapy (IORT), the latter which was essentially 20 minutes of radiation directly to the tumor bed in surgery such that when my surgery was done, I was done with radiation therapy. I was so grateful that I was able to have this treatment; it was the least invasive. You can google IORT to learn more about it.

Initially I was so overwhelmed by my diagnosis that I seriously considered not doing anything because I couldn't decide what to do. I was reading a breast cancer forum about women who opted not to have any treatment and it was there that I learned about IORT at UC-Irvine and then found my breast cancer surgeon who practices in downtown Los Angeles where I live.

Sorry to welcome you into this pink ribbon club--love and prayers to you in whatever decision(s) you choose.

shockedat29

I asked my surgeon about other possible treatments that are less invasive that are not exactly traditional standard treatment (I don't remember which specifically), and she pretty much said that I wouldn't be a candidate for any other treatment because I'm so young.

It seems like my surgeon's main concern now is my dcis because it didn't change. She said even patients who have chemo, who have similar outcomes as me (shrinking/softer/melted tumor) still undergo surgery because the chemo doesn't change the dcis.

All the holistic natural people (including my mom) say that tumors takes years to form, so it's going to take time to go away....

Momine

Shocked, I would urge you to have the surgery. Removing the cancer is the most important part of standard treatment.

Artista964

I agree. Why on earth would you not want to get it removed? The only people I've heard of who don't is if they are stage iv and it won't make a difference in their case.

NotVeryBrave

Congrats on making a difference in that tumor! Even though it didn't disappear, the fact that it changed means it wasn't a waste of time and energy. And you learned some things along the way.

I would caution you that most BC's in young women don't take years to develop. That is true about many in older women, but many in younger women are aggressive. Surgery is pretty much required.

edwards750

IMO waiting to see what happens is like playing Russian roulette. Way too risky. Who knows how aggressive the tumor really is? Why take the chance?

A friend’s sister chose to wait and see and it cost her. Not trying to scare you but if it were me I would have it removed ASAP.

Diane

DATNY

Russian roulette is a good way to describe it. There is absolutely posible that the naturist treatments you are undergoing will work well for you. But how well for how long? What is your chance of survival in 5 years, 10 years? Unfortunately there is no answer to these questions with these types of treatments. With standard treatment there is: 100% survival at 5 years mark for dcis.

Moreover, I've read somewhere that in cases of spontaneous remission (basically remission without standard treatment), cancer does come back and the rate is high. In fact, in that article the rate stated was 60% . I tried to look up again that article and post it here, but I could not find it.

For all these reasons, and the fact that I have children for which I am still responsible, I decided to go on with standard treatment.

Edited to update with link to an article mentioning the high rate of recurrnce in spontaneous remission (only 8 out of 46 were long lasting):

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150306-the-mystery-of-vanishing-cancer

CindyNY

Shockedat29 - it's a hard decision that only you can make. If you choose not to have surgery you're going to have to have it monitored very closely. As others have said, you're young and it tends to be more aggressive. If you choose to have the surgery and get it removed, you'll know its out.

Hugs to you, I know making the decision either way is stressful.