Dirt -- Should you make dirt apart of your life

sas-schatzi

Recently came across an article about a bacteria in dirt that has many of the abilities to create an increase in Serotonin levels. There is oodles on the net. This has been researched for awhile. I'm just now getting into it. Don't even know what the little buggers name is yet.

But I can tell you after being on BCO since 2009, I have been fascinated by the "Dirt Girl's" i.e. gardeners. Women & men that the first thing they want to do after treatment is get back out in their gardens. Personally, being adverse to dirt, it was a wonder to me. But my twin a BC survivor since 1996, is a gardener extraordinaire. A Better Holmes and Garden type gardener, that plans new gardens in the winter to be created in the spring.

So, let's see where this dirt topic goes

sas-schatzi

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/66840.php

This is an article written for lay people. It talks about the bacterium, mycobacterium vaccae. It's a comfy article. It doesn't get into the depth of the research.

ChiSandy

We have raised a generation of kids whose immune systems can’t safely handle the various pathogens that we could easily endure during our own childhoods. Antiseptic soaps, surface cleaners, hand sanitizers, wipes, even antibacterial-infused toys have impaired the modern juvenile immune system. We played in the dirt. We learned in grade school how to pot seedlings & houseplants. We grew vegetable gardens—yup, even in the city: we were jr. members of the Brooklyn Botanic Garden and had our own little Sixties-era versions of Victory Gardens overlooking the BMT Franklin Shuttle tracks, hauling our self-grown produce home on the subway. Heck, I remember when my Russian-born grandma wanted to start houseplants from cuttings, she didn’t go to the hardware store and buy soil: she dug dirt out of the backyard, and against all conventional wisdom her plants thrived. As did we.

sas-schatzi

http://allergiesandyourgut.com/2015/05/17/antidepressant-bacteria-in-soil-boosts-serotonin/

This article is very user friendly. I object to his statements at the end b/c they are blanket unsupported statements, but can't refute them without going into serious in depth study. Ergo, you are on your own

Prior to his last paragraph, I was with him/her/them/gender31. I'm very familiar with the microbiome of the gut since I studied it two summers ago. The linkage to GMO, I have not studied. hence have no opinion

wallycat

Lots of positive things about dirt, living on farms, having pets that kiss kids....all good.

Interestingly, my DH is an avid gardener, so I tried to be out there to help. I'm not overly outdoorsy (though living in the PNW, have learned to fish and shoot and forage for mushrooms!). I got cancer. My twin, hates the outdoors almost more than me....still cancer free.

sas-schatzi

Not posting the study I just read. It was written on an Infectious Disease doc level. The simple thing that can be the take away from the study is make sure your tetanus is up to date. Use healthy dirt. If manure is mixed in, make sure it's from healthy animals. I will include the link as I must b/c this is the science forum. But read at your own risk. I could only read about 40%.............Then decided , naw..........leave it I already have enough problems with dirt.............Dirt lovers thrive in dirt. Only use this if something highly unusual happens

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/770540

sas-schatzi

The following is the conclusion from the above study. While I suggested reading the whole study should be avoided b/c it was written on an Infectious Disease doc level. The conclusion is not. If we are to take dirt serious as essential to life and an enjoyment of life by getting into by digging we must be aware it has consequences. UGH..........................go enjoy your dirt.

Conclusions A variety of bacterial and fungal microorganisms are capable of departing a soil environment to cause serious focal or systemic infection. Specific evolved virulence factors or the ability to grow in diverse, sometimes harsh, microenvironments may promote human infection. Questions regarding travel and soil exposure, by direct contact or ingestion, inoculation, or dust or aerosol inhalation, should be included in the history of any patient with syndromes consistent with tetanus, botulism or anthrax, traumatic wounds, recalcitrant skin lesions, gastroenteritis, and nonresponsive, overwhelming, or chronic pneumonia. Prompt recognition of tetanus and botulism, supportive intensive care, tetanus immune globulin or botulism antitoxin therapy, respectively, and adjunctive antibiotic therapy may significantly improve outcomes in affected patients. Prompt, directed antimicrobial therapy for anthrax, wound infection, and systemic fungal disease may be life-changing. Bacillus and Listeria gastroenteritis is usually self-limited in immunocompetent people, but investigation of their source(s) may be an important public health measure.

ElaineTherese

OY. I thought this topic was about my house! But alas, no.

sas-schatzi

Elaine toooo funny

sas-schatzi

Hi Wally cat, it's been along time. we were active together on some science thread. Maybe Weight?

Anywhooses---------we live YAY-------a Twin, we should locate that twin study. ...........

Hi Chi, the problem with where the family garden was road ways. Leaded gasoline. Any ways this is a new thought find some clean unadulterated dirt. Hope you decide to jump in and look for info. Nothing heavy in time.

The topic came up b/c I saw the article that linked mycobacterium vaccae with serotonin. Figured it was worth a look. There has of course been studies to try to reproduce it, and inject it & and feed it to mice. It showed the mice were happy even three weeks later.

I'd be happy to ingest something and be happy three weeks later------include weight loss-----I'd be in heaven.

sas-schatzi

Conclusions A variety of bacterial and fungal microorganisms are capable of departing a soil environment to cause serious focal or systemic infection. Specific evolved virulence factors or the ability to grow in diverse, sometimes harsh, microenvironments may promote human infection. Questions regarding travel and soil exposure, by direct contact or ingestion, inoculation, or dust or aerosol inhalation, should be included in the history of any patient with syndromes consistent with tetanus, botulism or anthrax, traumatic wounds, recalcitrant skin lesions, gastroenteritis, and nonresponsive, overwhelming, or chronic pneumonia. Prompt recognition of tetanus and botulism, supportive intensive care, tetanus immune globulin or botulism antitoxin therapy, respectively, and adjunctive antibiotic therapy may significantly improve outcomes in affected patients. Prompt, directed antimicrobial therapy for anthrax, wound infection, and systemic fungal disease may be life-changing. Bacillus and Listeria gastroenteritis is usually self-limited in immunocompetent people, but investigation of their source(s) may be an important public health measure.

sas-schatzi

Pooper, didn't mean to delete that----------- I, seriously, dislike "Blue" line deletes . Apoligize

sas-schatzi

Questions I will post on the Dirt thread.

Mycobacterium Vaccae( MV) can it be reproduced? Can it be preferentially be produce without contaminants(other bacteria)? Can it be too much for a garden? What affect does crop rotation have on it's abundance? Are there crops that produce more? Should there be crops left fallow to replete the soil for MV? Are there soil tests for MV? Is it against the law to sniff MV or taste MV? Can soil with MV be carried across state lines? Is the Government aware that it creates a sense of well being? Hmmm well being, the government is always against well being..............

Okay that was fun............... Love you, Marilyn(okay really sas, but i'm into the sauce)

WenchLori

Yay! Dirt! I've played in it as a kid and I was always out in our family garden. I got away from gardening when I got married and we moved into apartments. Yuck! Never again! Every time DH mentions getting a condo or moving to an apartment I just tell him that I don't do well in captivity. I want my house, my yard, my garden and especially my dirt.

Thank you Sassy, I can't wait to dig into all of the articles you've been able to find for us!

fredntan

contemplating going in my little garden to eat some dirt?

in the mice study-how after 3 weeks do they know the mice are happy? I guess they test serotonine? Maybe I should play in mudpuddles again-that only gave me worms as a kid.

yes I am alive and well-NED I hope still

sas-schatzi

Fredntan YAY for life. any day we can walk, talk, think, growl (hahah)........is a good day

cive

I'm with Elaine, just figured it was another reason not to worry about all the dust in my house.  I rather like that interpretation. 

sas-schatzi

I figured that the ino in Wiki was short enough that it could be brought here. I didn't bring the bibliography, but the Wiki link is below.

Mycobacterium vaccae is a nonpathogenic species of the Mycobacteriaceae family of bacteria that lives naturally in soil. Its name originates from the Latin word, vacca (cow), since it was first cultured from cow dung in Austria.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycobacterium_vaccae

Mycobacterium vaccae

Mycobacterium vaccae
Scientific classification
Kingdom:	Bacteria
Phylum:	Actinobacteria
Order:	Actinomycetales
Suborder:	Corynebacterineae
Family:	Mycobacteriaceae
Genus:	Mycobacterium
Species:	M. vaccae
Binomial name
Mycobacterium vaccae

Mycobacterium vaccae is a nonpathogenic^[1] species of the Mycobacteriaceae family of bacteria that lives naturally in soil. Its name originates from the Latin word, vacca (cow), since it was first cultured from cow dung in Austria.^[2] Research areas being pursued with regard to killed Mycobacterium vaccae vaccine include immunotherapy for allergic asthma, cancer, depression, leprosy,^[3]psoriasis, dermatitis, eczema and tuberculosis.^[3]

A research group at Henry Wellcome Laboratories for Integrative Neuroscience and Endocrinology, University of Bristol, Bristol, England, UK has shown that Mycobacterium vaccae stimulated a newly-discovered group of neurons, increased levels of serotonin and decreased levels of anxiety in mice.^[1] Other researchers fed live Mycobacterium vaccae to mice, then measured their ability to navigate a maze compared to control mice not fed the bacteria. "Mice that were fed live M. vaccae navigated the maze twice as fast and with less demonstrated anxiety behaviors as control mice", according to Dorothy Matthews, who conducted the research with Susan Jenks at the Sage Colleges, Troy, New York, USA.^[4]

Mycobacterium vaccae is in the same genus as Mycobacterium tuberculosis, the bacterium which causes tuberculosis. Numerous trials have indicated that exposure to oral and injectable products derived from M. vaccae bacteria can have positive effects in treating tuberculosis. Although a 2002 review of selected clinical trials failed to find any consistent benefit of certain dosage regimens of injectable Mycobacterium products in people with tuberculosis,^[5] a more recent meta-analysis of 54 clinical studies of M. vaccae products for tuberculosis showed treatment resulted in improved sputum conversion and radiological (X-ray) assessment.^[6]

Medical researchers at Kharkiv National Medical University, Kharkiv, Ukraine have reported two clinical trials with oral formulations of Immunitor Inc's killed Mycobacterium vaccae oral vaccine and An Hui Longcom's killed Mycobacterium vaccae oral vaccine in treating tuberculosis, including drug resistant TB (MDR-TB). The research team reported greater success with the Immunitor vaccine than the An Hui Longcom vaccine.^[7][8]

A team of researchers at the Genetics and Microbiology Department of the Autonomous University of Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain discovered that Mycobacterium vaccae changes from its "smooth" type to its "rough" type (referring to how colonies of this organism appear under a microscope) at thirty degrees Celsius. They discovered that the "smooth" type of Mycobacterium vaccae has a substance on the outside of its cell wall which interferes with the production of Th-1 cytokines, responsible for some kinds of T-helper cell immune response. The team also found that the spleen cells of mice inoculated with "rough" Mycobacterium vaccae produced more Th-1 cytokines than those inoculated with "smooth" Mycobacterium vaccae.

The researchers say this may explain why different vaccines made from Mycobacterium vaccae vary in their effectiveness in increasing immune response to other organisms during clinical trials.^[9]

sas-schatzi

In looking at the Pylum Actinobacteria which MV is located. There is a slew of bacteria. Many good bacteria. Some not so good. So, if you are playing in dirt some consideration of your immune state should be taken. Hand washing after gardening is good.

MV is being offered for sale on the internet. There is no way to tell how it's processed and safety. Down the road with more research it may be in the safe category.

When you see it on a label of a very trusted producer of probiotics, then I think it's made the cross over.

Bifidius is part of the Actinobacteria Phylum. Several strains of Bifidius are included in probiotics.

WenchLori

Cive, awe man! I wish I would have thought of that before I spent all day today dusting our movie/music room!

ShetlandPony

I bet organic soil with compost and lovely earthworms is the healthiest soil for plants, people, and good bacteria. Just garden with that. And a healthy diet full of veg from that soil promotes a heathy gut biome, and so on. Ah, in an ideal world.

sas-schatzi

Shetland, great dirt , we just have to find it. I'm guessing that companies are looking at these studies seriously

MY Dear wonderful Boyfriend, when I was studying him for BF material. I looked at him one day as he was putting in a 50 foot outside electrical line, he was covered in dirt head to sneakers. MY thought was he has no fear. No fear of dirt and no fear of work. The dirt wondered me, as I'd never known anyone that had no worry of getting that dirty. It actually drew me to him. I thought it odd. But I also saw survival differently......he could do anything and wasn't afraid of anything. It was an interesting experience. Now this month 5years.

Back to dirt, Nordstroms had for sale jeans with impregnated dirt for 425$.

ChiSandy

Going out to my backyard with all my old jeans, then to the fashion buyer at Nordstrom.

ShetlandPony

I will look for the "ChiSandy" line at Nordies soon.

Someone I don't know sent me, through a friend, some holy dirt from a shrine, to aid in my healing. I accepted the good wishes it represented, though I have not yet applied it to my body. Now sas tells me dirt may indeed be good for us...

Traveltext

As the old adage goes "you eat a peck of dirt before you die."

A peck is a dry measure equal to a quarter of a bushel or 8 quarts.

That should do the trick!

WenchLori

Who knew that the mud pies we used to make as children was good for us?

fredntan

Sas I thought you were shitting us about the dirt jeans. I looked them up. Its real!!

Did some yard work without my gloves. my nails are almost clean now.

so maybe having these dirty floors is a good thing.

Sara536

If Nordstroms makes some medicinal claims for their jeans, maybe they could pull in $600. a pair

WenchLori

For that kind of money for a pair of dirty jeans, I'll roll around in the dirt with my $25 pair of jeans. I bet their flying off the shelves too

sas-schatzi

Irony for my DBF, I'm always nagging him to put on a better pair of jeans. The staining can often remain even with the use of bleach and several washings. Now he's a fashion statement Hahahah

Fredy when have you known me to shit you........well maybe on the constipation thread

sas-schatzi

The mushrooming(pun) research on the microbiome which is the study of bacteria, fungi, virus, mycobacteriums that live in the environment, on us, and in us, is exploding with research in the last 17 years. Accelerating so fast that it's hard to keep up. In general, we get used to the bugs in our own environment. Routine home environment and cleaning is sufficient. Another tidbit from past reading is that eating vegetables that come from local farms are better for us than those that come from far distances.

In general, the reason hospital stays are as short as possible, b/c of injudicious hospital management, hospital bugs have become seriously pathogenic i.e. disease causing. I could write a book on Injudicious hospital management. But the short of it is 1. since the introduction of antibiotics in the late 1930's, hospital cleaning has changed every decade. Not for the better. 2. what staff has been allowed to wear has been a vector(source for movement of bugs from on area to another). 3. staff is less skilled at recognition of sterile, clean, clean contaminated, dirty, and hazardous dirty. This may sound like a condemnation of hospitals and it is. Because of lack of intensive training to assure transmission and colonization of bugs was stopped or limited, we have the superbugs.

With the introduction of AIDS/HIV in the 1980's the CDC developed the system of Universal Precautions. That was supposed to address the problems of cross contamination. What the guidelines presumed was that the precautions would be used appropriately. They weren't.