MISTLETOE INJECTIONS TO FIGHT CANCER

caall1234

Has anyone heard of this

European mistletoe is a plant that grows on several different trees. The berries, leaf, and stem of European mistletoe are used to make medicine. Interest in mistletoe for cancer has grown in North America, ever since Suzanne Somers announced on Larry King Live that she is using it to treat her breast cancer.

Friend that had cancer last saw her they said they could do nothing more for her.
She lived in Canada. They has stop treatments. She went and had this injection

and now they say she is in remission. So it must work. She had cancer that went

to her brain

dlb823

Memorial Sloan Kettering's website has a great section with what always seems like very balanced info on herbal tx. Here's a link to Mistletoe, and here's what they say about it and cancer. Like so many things, both conventional and integrative or alternative, I suspect there is probably a wide range of responses depending on individual tumor biology.

https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medi...

• To treat cancer and cancer symptoms
  Laboratory and animal studies show some anticancer activity, but clinical trials have not been able to confirm the same effect in humans. One study in patients with advanced pancreatic cancer did see both survival and symptom improvements. Other studies with cancer patients suggest that mistletoe can improve symptoms and quality of life, and that chemotherapy regimens may be better tolerated and not negatively affected when adding a prescribed mistletoe regimen. More studies are needed to confirm these effects.

Tina2

I had a good friend with late-stage lung cancer who tried the mistletoe injections. They did not help her symptoms or save her life.

Tina

RosesToeses

I don't know anything about mistletoe, but I wanted to add for discussion's sake that Suzanne Sommers has said she's had a lumpectomy and radiation therapy for her cancer. Whatever role mistletoe or her other "outside the box" treatments played, keep in mind she also had some proven standard treatments for her cancer, too.

LuAnnH

I think Suzanne Summers is a phony personally.  I do remember doing research on this along time ago and it seemed plausible as a tx option but it is not available in the US.  If I was out of options I might try it but considering all the options available I wouldn't rush out to find it.

dlb823

I realize this thread has been inactive for some time, but I still had it bookmarked, and it seemed like a good place to post this new trial I came across today.

Looks like Johns Hopkins is taking mistletoe extract seriously.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/kimmel_cancer_cente...

Husband11

That is great news that it is getting some scientific scrutiny. My wife tried mistetoe IV, and unfortunately the escalating dosage caused her a severe scalp rash, which caused her to quit the treatment. Her naturopath would increase the dose each week. Trusting the naturopath knew what he was doing, I would think this would indicate different people have different reactions and thresholds to the dosage.

zarovka

Thank you Deanna. I am doing Iscador M injections. Just started a few weeks ago. Still working up to the effective dose. Takes a while. The stuff is hard to get, and you need medical supervision, which is hard to find. But it can be done.

I'd jump on this trial if it weren't far away.

>Z<

Bestbird

Interesting that the Hopkins clinical trial is a dose escalation study given by IV, which I've never heard of. Normally mistletoe is self-injected, resulting on generally mild symptoms (although as Timothy pointed out, some people have more of a reaction). I was on mistletoe (Iscador) for about a year, and the only discomfort was occasional pain and irritation around the injection site.

Frankly after reading that Hopkins will administer the mistletoe through IV in lieu of a simple injection, I'm worried that they'll administer too large a dose and subsequently drop the whole thing, saying it's too toxic. Mistletoe is a commonly used cancer therapy in Germany, and has been for quite a while. And it is usually well-tolerated when injected as instructed. But the IV administration troubles me greatly, as it's a departure for the manner in which mistletoe is meant to be administered.

Heidihill

They do use infusions in Europe. There is a German study showing it has less adverse side effects than an injection. It may not be the best study though. I suppose you don't get the irritation around the injection site. I think the side effects also depends on the preparation used. 

Bestbird

Heidihill, thank you for your post. I'm still wondering about the infusions, since dosage (i.e. moving from a lower-dose Series to a higher dose series) is dependent upon localized (or possibly other) reaction to the vaccine injection site. So for example, a patient may finish all the doses in Series 0, have no localized (or other) reaction, and be moved thereafter to Series 1. The migration to the subsequent higher-dose Series continues until a reaction is observed, at which point the patient remains on that Series for quite a while. To my understanding, that is the traditional method.

According to the NCI, Mistletoe extracts are usually given by injection under the skin or, less often, into a vein, into the pleural cavity, or into the tumor. From: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/mistletoe-pdq

Husband11

Some naturopaths do the mistletoe by IV. That's the type that my wife got here in Canada. I've read some published work on the subject, so it appears to be a somewhat accepted practice. Unfortunately for my wife, the allergic reaction when it hit critical dose was more systemic than local, as a subcutaneous injection would instead be. She felt like her head was on fire, her cheeks were red and rashed, and her scalp line become red and inflamed. For some crazy reason, despite her bringing these details to the attention of her naturopath, he continued the therapy, and didn't believe it was the mistletoe. Only after I insisted she take a break from it, did the symptoms subside and never return. We can't ever know for sure, but it sure seems like it was the IV mistletoe.

Now none of this is to say that it isn't a good therapy.

zarovka

BestBird, Timothy - I am doing the injections but my naturopathic oncologist here wants me to go to Canada for a couple of weeks for mistletoe IV and hyperthermia. BestBird will know who my NO is, so at least one smart guy thinks mistletoe IV's make sense. I also know there is a naturopathic doctor advising the JohnsHopkins trial and she only does IV's ... so she brings that experience.

I do notice that they are using Helixor mistletoe which is not the fermented kind and not recommended for injection by my NO. I so want this trial to be successful so I hope the Helixor works well despite my NO's concerns.

I appreciate knowing your wife's response to mistletoe, especially since doctors don't recognize it as a mistletoe reaction. I'd love to try injecting it into or near the tumors but I currently have to do all this on my own so that is not an option. Sticking to the belly for the moment.

>Z<

Bestbird

Timothy, zarovka and Heidihill, thank you for your information and reassurance about administering mistletoe via IV.

As a knee jerk reaction, I think perhaps that one of the mistakes scientists make is the "more is better" approach, which applies to just about every protocol given to cancer patients. It appears to be based upon clinical trials, wherein Phase I trials are meant to identify the maximum tolerated dose. I often wonder why are they not seeking the minimum effective dose, possibly in a Phase I.b. trial? The same may apply to this discussion about mistletoe.

Husband11

That is a very valid question Bestbird. Unfortunately it seems its the patient's quest to find some relief from side effects and find the minimum effective dose.

zarovka

BestBird -

I couldn't agree more. Across the board, looking at all treatments, the minimum effective dose is almost never investigated. Take Ibrance as an example ... the trials did not look at that or really report data on that even though they could have. Now we have no guidance on whether it is safe to drop down a dose to manage side effects other than neutropenia. I will be doing my own little N=1 trial on that subject starting next cycle, but why is this up to me to figure out?

As far as mistletoe goes, I will stick the escalating dose to find the minimum effective dose strategy for a while.

>Z<

Heidihill

When it comes to cancer, the belief that "more is better" probably arises from the desire to kill as many cells before drug resistance develops. With Tamoxifen it's been known for decades that a lower dose can be as effective as a higher dose but patients mostly still get the higher dose with the concomitant increase in side effects. Low dose chemotherapy may also eventually be shown to be superior to maximal dose chemo (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161123124443.htm ) although the frequency of administration may also make a difference.

fleur-de-lis

well, I saw this and just had to post, as I started Iscador injections last October and worked my way up to 100ml..no real side effects except for what I would consider to be "the mother of all hot flashes"a few minutes after injection...said to be a sign that it is firing up my immune system. No problems with that.

I am now moving to Helixor, which is said to be a stronger extract.

I have a true immune deficiency, CVID, or Common Variable Immune Deficiency...actually, not so "common", as 1 in 50k have this condition. I receive weekly gamma globulins, which does replace my IgG levels, but my WBC and NK counts are always sub par....I went from a 2.3 to a 7.3 WBC count per Lab Corp results.

If you look at my siggy, you can see that, hmm, I had some very busy breasts in 2016. My last breast MRI was completely clear....go figure?

I am building myself up to remove the rest of righty, and reconstruct once I am feeling stronger.

The only issue that I experienced was a slight rise in my liver enzymes..Just two points above the normal levels, when typically they are low normal....my doctors...even those who are not knowledgeable about the mistletoe therapy say "no worries, continue what you are doing"

zarovka

Fleur de lis - thank you so much for popping in. So you think it is working ... are you on any other treatment that could explain the clear MRI?

>Z<

fleur-de-lis

You know, I cannot really say, but having problems with my innate immune system is not a good issue to have with cancer.

The last Phyllodes which was removed in 2016 contained a small loci of ILC..off the top of my head tonight, the Phyllodes was 9.5 cm and the area of the ILC was small, about 6-7 mm. The remaining Phyllodes tumor was benign...those tumors are staged differently from other types of breast cancer. Phyllodes tend to resemble Sarcomas.

I am also considering adding some CBD oil. I live in a state were the THC content is not legalized. Once again, just trying to improve immune status.

Looking into medical mushrooms as well

zarovka

I take horse doses (3000mg per day before bed) of water processed coriolus. There was an immediate increase in nuetrophils and WBC when I started that regime, so it is something to play with.

I got to the 10ml injection of Iscador Mistletoe Saturday. Boy do I have a textbook welt on my abdomen. I won't need to go up to 100ml. It's good to feel that I am at the therapeutic dose.

My naturopathic oncs area all over boosting the immune system. We're doing a full court press with good results even though the ibrance protocol I am on slams the immune system.

Feeling optimistic ...

My oncologist feels that Iscador is more effective. Unfortunately it is very hard to get in the US. If I had the Switzerland/Texas lifestyle that would be very cool and I would be able to buy Iscador where it is made.

I am interested in your thoughts about Iscador v. Helixor.

>Z<

JFL

Zarovka, what is the mechanism of action with mistletoe? I would like to get some. I am going to Munich for several days in May. Going to investigate getting it there, although that may only be a temporary solution as it is one isolated trip to Germany. Is it illegal to have it shipped to US?

zarovka

JFL - the way I understand it, the mistletoe causes an allergic reaction that puts the immune system in overdrive, but in a good way. It certainly causes an allergic reaction as I have quite the welt around the injection site. You can do the shots up to 3 times a week, but it's not necessary if the allergic reaction persists. This last one doesn't appear to be going away soon.

I'll PM you with what I know about sourcing Iscador. It isn't considered a "nutritional supplement". The makers of Iscador require a prescription but the FDA prohibits US physicians from prescribing it. As a result it effectively can't be sold in the US.

I am very interested in comparing notes with you, particularly if you get to see doctor in switzerland who can walk you through its use.

>Z<