Melatonin and Breast Cancer

wallycat

Yorkiemom, glycogen is a multi-branched type of glucose that our liver stores so that when our blood sugar drops, it can dump out what we need (very simplistic here since other hormones and other parts of the body also try to store glycogen). Around 2am-8am, our hormones try to get our body ready for the day...since we have not eaten (usually) the whole time we are sleeping, the liver starts to dole out the energy (in terms of glycogen to glucose) our bodies need.

In some people (prediabetics, diabetics, certain meds, genetic profile, blah, blah), the body is not quite fine-tuned enough to dump out exactly what is needed, so it can over or under provide. The dawn-phenomenon shows higher glucose values. Somogyi effect is similar in the end result but there is a time when the blood sugar while sleeping dips into hypoglycemia....skip that sentence if you are not diabetic/prediabetic and do not care

Prediabetics have a flawed pancreas that under and/or over judges what the body needs. *Most* people who have prediabetes are overweight and the body simply cannot detect the insulin the pancreas is dumping out...but that is not always the case. I was prediabetic and thin/normal weight.

Melissa, have you had your thyroid checked? Sadly, the older we get, the more likely (especially in women) that our thyroids fail. Also, we start to lose muscle (yes, even if we are exercising) and if you do nothing different (same exercise and same calorie intake), our aging bodies will start to gain weight. I know, what a slap in the face, huh?

Fallleaves

Here's another study that indicates eating late at night is not a good idea (because it causes the body to release a lot more insulin).

"Wright's study suggests that the change in insulin sensitivity may be related to the fact that wakefulness when melatonin levels were still high—meaning the body is still promoting sleep—contributes to metabolic dysregulation related to food intake during the biological night."

http://medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/medical...

pupmom

Wallycat, thank you! I never eat after going to bed. Also, I think genetics has something to do with weight. My mom actually was so skinny as a young woman that she drank pure cream to gain weight. My dad was also lean, but very muscular. Even though I have a family history of bc, maybe my historical lack of weight issues was a genetic blessing.

MelissaDallas

Yorkie, It has probably been five years since I had a thyroid panel done. I know part of it is post menopause too. I kept all that weight I lost five years ago when I was so sick off for a couple of years. How many people not getting lipo can say they went to sleep and woke up thirty pounds lighter, huh?

My job is incredibly stressful and I feel like I am on the verge of an anxiety attack about half the time. ChiSandy would understand-family law paralegal for a nut case lawyer...my own personal soap opera every day..

Fallleaves

Hmm, I didn't realize it before, but there is actually a pharmaceutical drug called agromelatine that targets melatonin receptors and works as an antidepressant.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC41280...

Looked at wiki, and it appears that agromelatine was approved for use in Europe in 2009, and then the rights for use in the U.S. were sold to Novartis, which did phase III clinical trials and then decided not to market it after all. Odd that it panned out over there, but not over here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agomelatine

Apparently there's also interest in it (in Europe anyway) for treatment of "bipolar depression, anxiety disorders, alcohol dependence, migraines etc"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC43072...

ChiSandy

In the EU, melatonin is sold by prescription-only. In my experience, a lot of Rx-only drugs in the US are OTC and much cheaper (Ventolin inhalers, Celebrex, Flector patches, Voltaren gel & spray) in Europe. So when I was packing for my London/Lausanne/Paris trip last spring, deciding to keep my luggage as light as possible, I didn't pack melatonin for sleep or jet lag, or antibiotic ointment for a nasty scrape on my elbow. Imagine my shock when I walked into a Boots in Mayfair and was told that I would need a prescription for both! I ended up having to buy herbal-tea Nespresso-compatible capsules for sleep and antiseptic (a la Bactine) for the scrape. Not surprisingly, I didn't sleep well, and my scrape became very badly infected (wonder, in retrospect, whether it, too was MRSA like the skin biopsy wound on my back months later?). When I was about to leave Lausanne and showed my elbow to the pharmacist, she told me to seek medical help as soon as I got to Paris.

It was only once I arrived in Paris and found out how much a physician's "hotel call" would cost and how long I would have had to wait at an ER, that I took the concierge's advice and went around the corner to the English-speaking drugstore. The pharmacist told me that in France, registered Pharmaciens (not sales clerks) have wide latitude as to what they can sell without a prescription. (The more ailments that can be treated at the drugstore rather than at the doctor's office or clinic, the less the French NHS has to pay. So people are encouraged to see their pharmacist first before calling the doctor or going to the ER). He sold me aureomycin ointment and breathable dressings and then winked at me. “Are you nervous about your elbow? We don't want you getting an asthma attack over it." So he also sold me Ventolin, at 7 euros ($8). With insurance, my out-of-pocket here at home is $25 ($30 in the Part D “donut hole”). And branded Celebrex? $15 for a month’s supply (here I pay twice as much for the generic). I decided to press my luck: “Femara?” I asked. He shook his head, just as the pharmacists in Italy did. “Prescription-only.” Voltaren gel? $14 for a tube of the 2% strength--here, it’s $50 for the 1%, and requires a prescription.

pupmom

Melissa, I completely understand how stress effects our minds and bodies. I hope things get better for you soon.

ShetlandPony

I'm really struck by the possible connection between melatonin and sleep, and insulin and nighttime fasting. Add to that the importance of vitamin D and exercise. It seems like we all should be getting up with the sun and going outside to feed the animals and work in the garden, eating real food, socializing with people, and going to bed in a dark room when the sun goes down. (Wait a minute, did I just describe Ikaria, that Greek island where the people live so long?) Circadian rhythms may be the next big thing. It seems to me that when I am getting morning sun and going to bed on time, I have less need to take the melatonin supplement at night, and my mood is better; I assume because I am promoting my natural melatonin cycle. It's really hard for me to get a long enough nighttime fast because I get so hungry, and if I am hungry I find it hard to sleep.

ksusan

I find that eating fewer simple carbohydrates and more fat at dinner keeps my blood sugar stable at night. This means I don't get as hungry and can do a 13-hour fast (assuming that works with my schedule, which it doesn't always).

ShetlandPony

Thanks, ksusan; that's a good point. I will think about foods with healthy fat and protein for the evening.

Dejaboo

Fallleaves thanks for collecting all those studies & posting them here.

Good posted discussions to read too

I started taking Melatonin shortly after my dx. Started with 1 mg then 3...About 6 years later I was taking 20 mg ...And it was no longer helping...At about that same time I read somewhere that they thought Melatonin wasnt good to take...So I did stop taking it. I now take it about 1-2 times a month (3mg)...when I really need to try to sleep & havent for weeks on end.

I am one of those that do enjoy the mornings...I go to bed after the news each night & usually wake up on my own between 5:30 & 6:30. Granted I can go for weeks where I may only sleep 1-3 hrs during the night. I have constant night sweats & insomnia

Fallleaves

Just wanted to let everyone know that I just read an article about a large review study that totally undercuts the night shift-breast cancer connection. I included it above but will link it here as well. Scratching my head on how these studies can come to such different conclusions....

Working night shifts unlikely to increase breast cancer risk

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/1610...

But, good news for those who need to work night shifts!

ksusan

Thank you. It's frustrating, but as a former night shift worker, I'd be thrilled if there weren't an increased risk.