AC Chemo - how does each round compare

Numb

I have had my first round of AC chemo and had a few side effects.  Having my second round next Friday and worrying how this will feel.   How do most people feel after the 2nd round, is it harder or easier ?

Kicks

We are each uniquely individual, so there is no way that you can predict what you may or may not experience in any situation.

For me, neoadjuvant DD A/C was not bad at all - it did not slow me down at all. Yes, most of my hair fell out 2 days after 2nd infusion. I lost all appetite and sense of taste and smell. No nausea or problem with eating - just had to be reminded to eat as I never got hungry or thought about eating so Hubby called me we several times a day to remind me to eat something. There was no 'nasty' taste as some say - just not taste at all. Same goes with smell - nothing had any smell at all. It is my habit to always have ice water or herbal tea within 'arms reach' so decades old habits took over and I stayed well hydrated with no problem.

Adjuvant 12 weekly Taxol was not as nice though. What had gone on with A/C continued but UTTER EXHAUSTIOn came on. I basically existed those 12 weeks, either on the couch or bed. As exhausted as I was sleep would not come without sleeping meds (which I HATED taking). Chemo Dr gave me one but was not 'nice' at all - had horrible nightmares on it and I don't normally have nightmares at all so I called my PA and she gave me lowest dose of Ambient and it definately helped and NO nightmares - I stopped taking it 2 weeks after last Taxol. The EXHAUSTION on Taxol began to wear off a week after last infusion when I started rads.

I was fortunate in that I did not have to do anything I did not want to/feel like doing - from the first adult Son had taken over all my barn/horse chores and Hubby had taken over house/cooking/'house pet' (dogs and my bunny) chores so all I HAD to do was what I felt like or wanted to do.

Others have different experiences but they are 'theirs', just as mine were mine and hours will be yours.

Just thought of 2 issues I had. Starting on A/C my temperature did not run up to 'normal' and I was always cold. This got worse on Taxol and did go below 94f sometimes, especially during infusions even though I was in a glass fronted cubicle with it's own thermostat 'cranked up' as high as it would go and covered with warmed blankets. Also 1/2 way through Taxol, I had to go on mega doses of K (potassium) as my K levels plummeted. Still 6+ yrs later, I have to take K supplements to keep level up to 'normal'

Numb

Thank you so much KICKS  for taking the time to let me know how you got on.  I am always surprised when people say that the Taxol was worse than the AC but exhaustion seems to be a common factor.  I feel I can deal with fatigue so long as I don't feel nauseous, but I could change my mind when the time comes.  Is there anything you can do to improve the fatigue?   Did you lose your taste right from round 1 on AC or did it come later.  So far I have not lost my taste.  I can eat everything (unfortunately I need to watch my weight from now on though).

I did feel cold a few times and mostly if I got up to use the loo at night the first week after round 1,  I felt shivery with flu like symptoms, but this did not last past week 1.

So you are 6 plus years over all this, congratulations, you lucky thing and so nice of you to remain on here helping others.

Cheers

muska

Hi Numb, chemo effects are usually cumulative, so most likely you will feel more fatigued by the end of the treatment. I think lower blood counts contribute to the fatigue too. I had to get a blood transfusion by the end of AC. Speaking of taste and appetite, I had wonderful appetite during the AC course and allowed myself to eat anything. I did gain about six pounds while on chemo. I had no nausea whatsoever - thanks to the preventive meds.

Like previous poster, I had probably a few more problems on taxol and my dose had to be reduced to keep me going.

Good luck!

Artista928

Round 1 for me was pretty easy. I knew after 2 weeks hair would come out in clumps so just before round 2 I buzzed my hair. Round 2 was nausea mainly. Round 3 was nausea and vomiting. Round 4 was nausea. There was much fatigue as well for me. AC wasn't as bad for me as it was for many in my Sept 15 chemo group on this board. Chemo is cumulative.

If you are getting Neulasta shot the day after that ups you white blood cell count, take Claritin the night before, the day of and the day after. It prevents possible bone pain which is a common side effect. Don't get Claritin D, just plain Claritin. Drink a lot of fluids (not just water) the first 48-72 hours. That's how long it takes for chemo to leave the body. The chemo itself is done an hour after infusion. Protein is most important to eat. Take your nausea rx as directed for the first few days after infusion even if you feel fine. These are the key that I think helped me get through. Good luck!

Numb

MUSKA - thanks for that.  I did hear before that the chemo is cumulative so that scares me a little bit.  I did have very low white cells after the first round but didn't get the Neulasta shot but I am scheduled to get it this time around so should fare out better next time.

ARTISTA -  thanks for that.  I had a few side effects on round 1 but am hoping to do things better for round 2 and avoid where I went wrong first time around.  Did the anti nausea medication not work for you or did you take it and get nauseous anyway ?  I must remember that about Claritin, thanks for that tip.

KarenInCanada

I was surprised my first three rounds of FEC (Canadian version) which I had every 3rd week. Although it certainly was not pleasant, it was no where near as bad as I thought it would be. I took all of my anti-nausea meds as perscribed. Emend is a lifesaver for us. I went through side effects, had minor mouth sores usually if I ate something that irratated my mouth the 2nd week. I took meds for constipation the first few days and a week later usually had the opposite but only once had to take Imodium. Heartburn would happen week 2. It was like one SE would take place of another but it certainly was doable. I had the neulasta shot every time, no bone pain. In all, was not too bad at all

My last chemo was Taxotere which is also every 3 weeks. The hospital provided ice for my fingers and toes and it was done very slowly with Benadryl to ensure I didn't have a reaction. I also had my first Hercepton which I will be on for a year. The steroids are tripled for this from what I took for the first 3. I was pretty much down for the count from day 3 to 10. Tired, achy, bone pain, and generally felt awful and wondered how I could go through this 2 more times. It has been 2 weeks now and I am still lethargic. I think this is where they are really preparing you to take the clariton before the neulasta shot as this one seems to be the one that effects most with bone pain. I never took a Tylenol 3 but I never did after surgery either and was back at work in a week. I took extra strength Tylenol and a couple of Aleve and always took my temperature before I took them. Had such a sore throat it felt like knives when I swallowed and mouth sores but the magic mouthwash worked great. Bad heartburn more than a week later. This regimen is definitely more difficult for me and I am looking forward to getting past it all. I am sure there is a lot more I could add but this was just my own experience. I found it easier to prepare by going back to other months before Feb when I started and reading through how people were doing as well our Feb group is great with helping each other.

I am very thankful that my first 3 were so easy.....makes it easier to get through these tougher ones. As well, mine being every 3 weeks can be different from those doing it weekly and we all have our own tolerances and reactions.

Hoping you have a tolerable journey!!!! Good luck!!!

Numb

KAREN - thanks for that.  Good to hear it wasn't as bad as you thought.  You seem to have made sure you did what you were told and it paid off.  The Neulasta shot seems to do wonders for keeping the bloods even.  Sorry your Taxotere isn't as easy.  Wishing you a speedy recovery and hoping the rest of your treatment is kinder to you.

Denise-G

Chemo is cumulative and for most, side effects can increase especially fatigue. But everyone is so different. It always amazes me how one person can have every side effect in the book, and others, do quite well with few side effects. It is a mystery to me!

Sending my best wishes!

Kicks

I was told that if someone had bad Morning Sickness (and how bad it was) can be a 'sign' as to rather or not (or how bad chemo nausea) will be. I had no Morning Sickness with either son and had no Chemo nausea at all. I was a 'good girl' and took my anti- nausea meds throughout A/C but decided about 1/2 way through Taxol to not take them unless I needed them - never did but of course the IV anti meds were done before each infusion.

Appetite and taste started right after first infusion but continued to progress as time went on (by second infusion did not think about eating g at all and nothing had any taste at all). Hair was coming out in gobs right after 2nd A/C so 'we' had a 'Head Shave Party' at the barn. My head got shaved with the horse clippers and then Son and my other 'Sons' all shaved their heads also (Hubby is quite bald and always keep his head shaved anyway). On A/C, I only lot about 1/2 of other body hair (brows/lashes/etc.) but on Taxol 'everything left'.

Appetite - I could eat anything - just never thought about eating. Hubby would have liked it if I had not lost appetite. Why he continually called me to be sure I was eating 'somethhing' is he was/is petrified of me becoming aneortic. My Mom was an aneorotic and the first 4 yrs we were married he saw what it is does to all Loved ones not only the anorectic.

'Taste' - somewhat longish story but short version is - restaurant we went to for prime rib has VERY good (meaning really HOT) horseradish and I coated the entire prime rib with it and was complaining that they had brought me the mild (Hubby assured me it was the 'good' stuff) - just could not taste even it

Neulasta - I had no pain issues with it (never took Claritin) but my SE with it was that almost to the minute 2 hours after injection I would go to sleep for 2 hours and wake up.

Numb

DENISEG  -  Thank you for your comments.  I read a lot about you on your own forum and saw that you had heart problems on AC and this scared me a bit because I had pressure on my heart during the first round, pins and needles in my left arm and I panicked.  I got tests done ECG, Chest x-ray and MRI and a heart attack was ruled out but it scared me.  I sure hope I don't have these symptoms on round 2.  They only lasted a few days and then disappeared.  I guess we don't know all the health issues of the different people who are having the same chemo as us and this is most probably why everyone reacts differently, none of us are starting from the same base as it were.

Numb

KICKS -  Gosh I am surprised that you lost all your hair on Taxol because some people say that their hair started to grow again while on Taxol.  Also, surprised you never had any pain with Neulasta, isn't that amazing when so many others have to take Claritin to ease the pain.  It just goes to show you can never predict how you will react, you just have to wait and see.

DiabeticCancerChick

I had dose dense AC chemo last year without any steroids (refused them), and I have to say that the infusions do get harder to take as time goes on. Not during the infusion for me, but starting the night of.

I did not experience nausea, but after the 4th (and final) infusion, I did get a little "burpy" (for lack of a better word) and took one of the pills they gave me, which took care of it beautifully. That was the only nausea pill I took.

The Neulasta shot the day after every infusion caused no pain for me at all, and because of the Neulasta I did not experience neutropenia. Around the 3rd and 4th infusions I experienced debilitating anemia, though. My blood test before the final infusion showed that my red blood cells were almost back to normal, but after the last infusion it took WEEKS to feel myself again, and it happened all at once. I went from gasping for breath and taking forever to recover from climbing a set of stairs one day to oxygen-rich and completely up to handling my old exercise routine the very next day. If I had had to endure any more AC infusions I think I would have been in bad shape.

Also, I can't consume very much liquid at a time, so it was tough for me to stay hydrated during infusions (let alone super hydrated!), and I did develop an embolism in one vein (had to get a Picc line after that) and my feet did peel an awful lot. Not sure if being better hydrated would have helped either of those things, but it's a thought.

When my hair grew back it was so curly that without gel my head looks like a perfect pompom. It still isn't back to normal a year out. I hate chemo hair!

And finally, the exhaustion was relentless and got worse as time went on (some of that was anemia, but not all).

Hope everything goes as smoothly as possible for you. It sure is nice to tick infusions off your list... then one day it's over and done with. The nurses at my chemo center gathered around at my last infusion and gave me a certificate of achievement and sang a song! (They were wonderful).

Kicks

Just proves that there is no absolutes that any individual will experience. No one should expect that they will experience any/all that others did. Be prepared with education as what is a possible experience but that does not mean everyone will have every experience that has ever been experienced.

Head Hair - mine grew back exactly as it had been montys after end of Taxol. Nkt sure if you understood - after 2nd A/C, head hair was gone, 1/2 of brows/lashes and 'lower areaI had been told that it would come back 'grey' - was so happy to hear that. Genetics didn't follow that theory of others. I was 63 at DX with my hair being as dark as it ever was. 69 now and it still is as dark naturally as it never was! (i do not appreciate being told I sbould not DYE my hair so dark - I DO NOT DYE MY HAIR - CHECK MY ROOTS ANY TIME!). Genetics I inherited from Daddy's side of the family - even into their 90's did not go 'grey'. Mom's side got 'grey' very young.

You mentioned a possible heart issue - was a MUGA done? Many have this before any chemo. I went into Chemo healthy - other than upper back arthritis and osteopenia at DX. The health issues 'we' bring into does effect what we experience and/or our options/prognosis.

Numb

DIABETICCANCERCHICK - thanks for that report.  You were brave to refuse the steroids, but right if that is how you felt.  I can't imagine anyone not getting nauseous, so that was wonderful for you. That's great that you got no pain with the Neulasta shot, I didn't get this on round 1 but am scheduled to get it with round 2 as I was hospitalized with neutropenia last weekend.  Isn't that amazing that you could go from feeling so tired to feeling so good all within a day.  Didn't hear about the feet peeling thing before.  Nice ending to your last infusion and having nice nurses means an awful lot.  Thanks for the good wishes.

Numb

KICKS -  You made a good point there alright, what one gets is not always the same as what others get but best to be prepared just in case and then it is a bonus if you don't get it.

You were so lucky with your hair and 69 and still having no grey hair, how nice.  I am 65 and would not be that lucky. 

I had an Echo Heart Scan done and it was fine.  Not sure what a MUGA is but I didn't have that.  I had and ECG and that was fine too.   I felt pressure on my heart for a couple of days after the infusion but that disappeared after the first week.  Hopefully I don't get that again. 

Claire_in_Seattle

I did just fine and I had SIX dose dense of each. I was seriously dragging at the end of AC....but still able to cycle 20 miles on the flats. Energy returned during Taxol and I was able to do much longer distances. I did minimal steroids/anti nausea drugs. Was happy to have Neulasta as part of my protocol as did things such as slice my left thumb instead of the potatoes.

Six years later, I am fit and healthy and grateful to be here.

I have no idea about hair color. It's the same shade of Feria as before.

One benefit of chemo is that I finally learned all the tricks of eye make up. So much better than prior.

I look back and so thankful that we have protocols that most likely cure this disease if caught reasonably early. Not fun, but so glad we have these options. Good luck. Keep moving if possible. - Claire

Artista928

I went through Prochlorperazine, Zofran, and Zantac before at the end Phenergan seemed to work better. I had stomach upset no matter what I took, even a lot of otc stuff. Everyone is so different in what works. I've also heard if you keep your stomach empty that you increase chance for nausea so that's why they recommend a lot of very small meals/snacks.

Numb

CLAIRE -  thanks for your input.  Nice to know your energy returned during Taxol as so many people say they were exhausted during Taxol

.Wonderful to hear you are six years out of all of this, congratulations and I agree this is all worth the inconvenience if we get a clean bill of health at the end of it.

Numb

ARTISTA -  I had stomach upset right after the infusion and now I have it 2 weeks later as I am taking antibiotics and am thinking this might be the cause of it.  Funny I read somewhere that you if keep your stomach empty that you avoid nausea but I would imagine that doing that would cause nausea and what you heard makes more sense.

Numb

bump

Kicks

Nope - I'm not 'lucky' af all with my hair color! . It is a.'curse' because there are so many that do not understand that there are some of us who are still naturally dark haired (my GMom and both GGMoms on Daddy's side never got 'grey'. Daddy never did nor his his Dad. Mom's side - totally different, very young.

It is bizarre when being in haircare aisles to be told by total strangesr "If you didn't dye your hair so dark you'd look younger!". My wigs during Chemo were lighter frosted ones, but my hair is going to grow as it wants to.

Numb

KICKS  -   I would try and ignore anyone who passes comment on the colour of your hair.  Your natural hair colour has to suit your complexion whereas I get a colour in my hair and it never stays the same, always goes much brighter as it fades out and I am never sure whether the colour is right for me or not. In fact I am going to go grey when/if my hair grows back after all this treatment as I am sick and tired of getting the wrong colour. 

Artista928

I was on abx through chemo since I had a nasty 5 wk long infection before it. Take probiotics. I like Align. It's a bit pricey. It didn't help with nausea per se but abx does a number on your stomach and kills good bacteria to so it's good to supplement it. I'm a month out from Taxotere and stomach is still icky feeling and taste buds suck. And yeah, don't keep stomach empty. Focus on protein and small snacks/meals to keep something in it. But don't over eat as it'll cause nausea too.

ElaineTherese

Each round of AC chemo was special in its own way.... Seriously, my first two rounds were probably the worst. Round 1, I had heartburn; Round 2, I felt especially spacey. AC gave me more chemo-brain than Taxol, but Taxol gave me diarrhea. As someone who taught during chemo (college students), teaching during AC was harder than teaching during Taxol. Taxol, I just had to know where the nearest bathroom was or to take Immodium. AC, I wrote out all of my notes and referred to them constantly while teaching. I was happy to shift to Taxol, diarrhea and all. Best wishes!

Numb

ELAINETHERESE -  thank you for sharing your side with me.  I have had one AC and while it wasn't the best 3 weeks of my life I managed.  I had most of the side effects and am hoping to fare out better on round 2.  Nausea and an upset stomach were my worst se but now that I have managed to get a better anti nausea I am hoping for better  next time.  Also, I didn't get the Neulasta shot last time but hope to get it next time and this should save my white cells.

Claire_in_Seattle

Make sure you stay hydrated. Lots and lots of H2O. We now have great water bottles with a screw top. I used one of my cycling ones and drowned my cell phone. Oh well!

I really appreciated my SILK underwear during this experience. A girl does what she has to do. Wearing my Prada silk demi bra as I write this. Mmmmmmmmmmm.

Get a makeover on the other end. Explore new looks for the new you. Try out new looks, and you may find something just fab. FAB is what you are going for.

It really will be over shortly - REALLY. Then on to the rest of your life!!!! For me, the end of Taxol was the hardest. I had done the task, and I still had a month of treatment and I was overall just fine. Frustrating, but I got there. - Claire

Numb

thanks  CLAIRE  

I just bought the satin pillowcases and as my hair is almost out I feel these will be nice and soft.  Also got a new bra, very soft, no wire, but supportive. 

That sounds really nice to get a makeover, I must keep that in mind.  Hard to imagine this will ever be over, but I must try and stay positive.

Numb

Well, had the second round on Friday and so far so good. I can feel nauseous when I get up first just because 13 hours have passed since I last took Zofran, my schedule is every 12 hours.  As soon as I take it I am right again.  My face is flushed today and that is a little bit overpowering because it makes me feel tired, but this only lasted about 2 days in the first round, so no worries there.  So far so good, I am not finding this round harder than the first one, but early days yet.

I got a Neulasta shot yesterday but no side effects yet, but was told it takes 24 hours to take effect, so fingers crossed I won't get any serious pain from this.

Kicks

I got one of the no wire but underwire type bras several years ago that was supposed to be 'like' an underside but no wire - I did not like it at all. It was not as comfortable as under wire to me. I have always worn under wire so obviously I like them and they are comfortable for me. Where I get my mast. bras does not keep any on hand that will fit me (depending on the manufacturer either 32B or 34A) so I call and the Certified Fitter (the only one within over 300 miles) orders in several that she thinks would be the best for for me and ones that I will like. I get the ones I like and are the best fit and the others are returned to manufacturer.

Numb

I got a great bra from the same place as I got my wig.  It is called an Anita Bra,  www.anita.com and the name of it is Lisa.  It is a beige, very soft material, but with proper fitted cups decorated with beige polka dots as part of the material.  Now it doesn't have any wire, which I don't like any more, but it does have good support.  I am going to get another one as one isn't enough, and my underwire bras are obsolete now.