What about my Olympic Weightlifting?

vavikingchick

I am very recently diagnosed and will have surgery and radiation this month. I compete in Olympic Weightlifting internationally as a Masters Athlete. My doctors are vague and non-specific about getting back to training (how long will I be off? how should I progress?) after all of this. Where are women going to find information about training post lumpectomy and radiation? I would love to hear from women who've done this to get an idea about what your experience was like to get a feel for what I'm dealing with? All I've been told to date is "don't lift heavy" - to me that means "lift less than 150lbs overhead" but when I tell them that they just laugh :-(

SummerAngel

I'm not even close to your level but I've enjoyed lifting for many years. The biggest problem after treatment is the chance of triggering lymphedema, which you really don't want. I was told not to lift my arms past shoulder height for the first two weeks after surgery, no reaching or pulling, no lifting of anything more than 10 pounds. After 6 weeks I was allowed to start lifting again (post-mastectomy), but incredibly low amounts. Because I was so strong pre-surgery (again, not even close to you though I'm sure), I was allowed to start with 4 pound weights. Yes, 4 pounds. 2 sets of 10 for 2 sessions, then 3 sets of 10. Then allowed to increase by 2 pounds and again 2 sets of 10, then 3 sets of 10. Find yourself a LANA-certified PT and maybe they can start you off at higher weights, because at the rate I've been prescribed it would take a very long time to get to olympic levels.

Leighrh

I am not a competitor, but I Crossfit. Have through all this. I stayed out of the gym for about 2 weeks after lumpectomy and about a week after I got my port in. I cannot lift near what I used to but I still go and just do what I can, most days I can't do anything over 55lbs overhead and about 100 back or front squat, deadlift. I am in the thick of chemo though. If you do not have to do chemo then you should be fine just working your way up after surgery. I have to do radiation as well after chemo, but I plan to crossfit right through that as well. My best advice is just do what feels comfortable. As a weighlifter I am sure you know your body, if it hurts... don't do it! When I was first diagnosed I too was questioning whether or not I could get back in the gym as soon as possible and no one had the answer except moderate exercise.... lol crossfit is no where near moderate....lol. I talked to my trainers at the gym and they knew I could do it..... just a scaled back version of it! My biggest problem is stamina and fatigue... but that's the chemo talking and when I am done I am sure that will return.

Depending on how many lymph nodes they take, you might have to be cautious of Lymphedema. Just have that conversation with your surgeon and have them check for swelling at your follow up appointments. Just allow yourself to recover from surgery and start back at the gym slowly. Slowly for you is way different from slowly from someone who doesn't lift... LOL

SummerAngel

Personally I wouldn't trust a surgeon to check for lymphedema. My surgeons knew very little about it, and from what I've read here they are not unusual in that. Everyone who has lymph nodes removed is at risk, by the way, regardless of how many are taken.

Moderators

Welcome vavikingchick. We appreciate hearing your experience, and hope that you can get back to competing as soon as possible. There are lots of very physically fit women here, so they'll be a great source of information for you. Please keep us posted!

BarredOwl

Hi: That's pretty cool.

For some basic introduction to the risk of developing lymphedema and the condition itself, please see:

http://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/lymphedema

Here is another excellent resource:

http://www.stepup-speakout.org

BarredOwl

Leighrh

Sorry... just relating my experience..... my surgeon was and still is the only doctor who even brought up the lymphedema. I only had 3 nodes taken and at all of my appointments after surgery she would check for swelling, even advised me to wait 1 more week before getting back to the gym. My MO or RO hasn't said a word about to me.... but I guess the RO still could as I have not started radiation yet.

BarredOwl

Hi:

At the regional hospital where I was diagnosed, on my first visit to the surgeon, they took baseline measurements of both arms before surgery using a perometer. I ended up at Mass General, where I joined a trial which included taking baseline measurements before surgery and additional measurements at follow-up visits, also using a perometer.

BarredOwl

vavikingchick

This is so helpful to me! Thank you ladies :-) I have done crossfit before too and will maybe fall back to that while I recover - because you are right Leighrh they can modify anything to what you need. Im sure I am perseverating on training to cope with the diagnosis (my sister also has breast cancer but she is stage IV) but I really want to be able to do the American Masters in November so I qualify for the Pan American games again in June of 2016. Im just not sure if lifting "normal" is realistic by the end of September if I'm having this all done now in August. Having to re-adjust my expectations kinda sucks. And thank-you also the info on lymphedema - Ive heard this term and have a vague idea of what it is, but didn't realize it was related to post surgery lifting. I have some research to do and you all have helped point me in the right direction!

KateB79

I'm so happy to see this thread. I was a powerlifter for many years before having a UMX on 7/6. They're telling me not to lift anything for a while. . . Even the MO said to "avoid freeweights" through chemo, given that they're contaminated with grossness at the gym.

@SummerAngel, what kinds of lifts were/are you allowed to do? I'm looking for something to do with my upper body. . . It took me a long time to sculpt these shoulders and pecs, and watching them dwindle is making me really sad! (I'm allowed to do cardio--meh--and machines for legs).

I mean, I'm not happy to see this thread, but you get it.

xo

-kate

KateB79

I'm so happy to see this thread. I was a powerlifter for many years before having a UMX on 7/6. They're telling me not to lift anything for a while. . . Even the MO said to "avoid freeweights" through chemo, given that they're contaminated with grossness at the gym.

@SummerAngel, what kinds of lifts were/are you allowed to do? I'm looking for something to do with my upper body. . . It took me a long time to sculpt these shoulders and pecs, and watching them dwindle is making me really sad! (I'm allowed to do cardio--meh--and machines for legs).

I mean, I'm not happy to see this thread, but you get it.

xo

-kate

SummerAngel

Kate, the program I was given includes only free weights, but my PT gave me guidelines for other exercises. The program includes dumbell chest press, dumbell bicep curls, dumbell tricep "kickbacks" (bent over forward tricep extension), dumbell shoulder press, one arm dumbell row, and what's called a "band pull apart" on bodybuilding.com with resistance bands.

My favorite exercise pre-surgery was lat pulldowns, and she said to follow the same guidelines, extremely low weights to start. I started at 20 pounds, which was useless. I'm currenly up to 50 and that's still way too light. Sigh. However, I have noticed that after doing the lat pulldowns during my routine my expanders feel MUCH tighter for a few hours, which is annoying. I've also found that I don't enjoy the pulldowns like I used to, the flexing of the muscle around the expanders feels seriously wrong. Those with lumpectomies or autologous/no reconstruction won't have that problem, though.

I also love push-ups. She said the same thing, start by doing them against a wall. Then try a bench, then "girl" push-ups on the floor. Boring, but I'd rather be safe than sorry!

Leigh, sounds like your surgeon is more aware than mine were. That's good to hear!

muska

SummerAngel, I have no prior experience with weight lifting and just recently started lifting very small weights to regain some muscles in the arms and strengthen my shoulders. One thing I believe those of us with implants should avoid, is exercising pectoral muscles. We have implants under pectoral muscle and do not need more pressure on the implant.

BarredOwl, I am in the same trial at MGH and they use perometer on me at each follow up appointment.

SummerAngel

Actually, Muska, I've been told that it's absolutely fine to exercise our pecs. My PS said that today's implants are very sturdy and it's not a worry at all. Also, his nurse showed me an implant with a hole in it. Even squeezing it very hard didn't make any of the silicone actually come out of the implant. I'm not concerned.

muska

I did not make myself clear enough: the implant will be perfectly fine if you exercise your pectoral muscle. But if you already have some tightness or cording or a bit of encapsulation exercising pectoral muscle will make it worse.

As for the implant, I was told by my PS that it would take a force of opened air bag in car crash to break a modern silicone implant.

vavikingchick

I'm seriously thinking about doing a double mastectomy next summer after the Pan Ams just to reduce risk (my sister has stage IV) of reoccurrence - especially if the genetic testing comes back questionably - but want to see how this goes first. They don't take more lymph nodes when they do that do they? Its just the breast tissue and then tissue expanders under chest muscle before the implants? (not just - I get this is very invasive) What is the recovery time like for that? Not sure I will do it but have been weighing the benefits vs. the risks

KateB79

vavikingchick, I've been wondering the same thing. I only had a UMX, but depending on the genetic testing, I might go for a prophylactic MX (with reconstruction) on the other side.

vavikingchick

Kate how did the unilateral go for you? I know you cant lift upper body yet but it looks like you just had surgery in July? Are they saying how soon you can start training upper body again? And how is it doing? Do you feel like you are recovering/healing?

SummerAngel

They won't take more lymph nodes for a prophylactic mastectomy, so that's a good thing. You don't have to get reconstruction at all if you don't want to. Also, you might want to look into immediate autologous reconstruction (most popular is the DIEP flap). With it you won't have any concerns about implants. There is a longer initial recovery period, though. The problem with autologous recon is that they need to take skin and fat from another area of the body. Older versions also take muscle, but I'm sure, as a weight lifter, you wouldn't want that type. I looked into a DIEP flap for myself, and the PS I saw (there are only two in my entire state who do them) said he could do it, but I would need to be "highly motivated", because I don't have enough fat in my belly area. He said he would have to do multiple fat grafts from different areas of my body to get enough fat, and even then I would end up with a large A cup, most likely.

In my case (BMX with TEs), my PS didn't want any lifting for 3 weeks post-op. 1/3 intensity 3-6 weeks post op, then 2/3 intensity from 6-9 weeks post-op. My PT was different, because her concern was lymphedema. For her, nothing at all above 10 pounds until 6 weeks post op. I've posted the upper body exercises she prescribed starting at 6 weeks, starting at 4 pounds. It really was too light, though, and I think I could have easily started at 10 pounds without risk. However, I'm not the professional so I stuck to her recommendations.

vavikingchick

So Summer it sounds like at least three months down regardless of method? I was down for close to year post spine surgery and even though that was frustrating I did get back to where I needed to be pretty quickly once medically cleared. I'm guessing I would have the same body fat problem over my abs. I saw the work out you posted to ease back in - that would be very light for me too, but I know with my spine surgery following what the dr told me to do exactly and precisely got me back to normal and lifting anything I want, so I know I could do that part again. There's just so much to consider its hard to know what's best.

KateB79

Vavikingchick, the UMX was relatively easy. I was super strong going in and healed fast. My biggest problem was the smaller incision under my arm (I had a skin-sparing mastectomy in preparation for delayed recon) where the surgeon took the two sentinel nodes--it was sticky. I have no idea why, or how to explain it any better, but it was swollen and sticky and just all-around unappealing for about two and a half weeks. I only had a drain for about four days, and only one drain, so I have no complaints there. Overall, it was no problem whatsoever. I think I took a total of five Norco pills, including the first night in the hospital, the entire time. The rest of the time, I took ibuprofen and the pain was completely manageable.

They're telling me no lifting for at least another two weeks (six weeks post-op), but to keep doing my PT exercises. I don't mean this to be whiny/complainy, but I've gone from deep-squatting 175, deadlifting 225, and benching 125 (all for reps), to doing the leg press machine, the glute machine, and abs, with 30 minutes of interval training, three days a week, along with gentle yoga. It's gonna be a while before I get all that back, since I've got four months of chemo ahead of me, and I'm told to avoid freeweights--not because I'll injure myself, but because people never clean them at the gym--while I'm doing chemo.

I've already lost muscle mass, but I suppose that's okay, as long as I stay alive to lift again! I'm thinking of buying some 5lb and 10lb dumbbells and doing (gasp) isolation work on arms/shoulders at home. . . .

It's so funny: being physically strong has been such a big part of my identity for so long now that I think I'm grieving the loss of it. But, like I said, I'll be back at it in January, and my knees will probably be thankful for the break.

Summerangel, that's great info; thank you. I've been told I don't have the right build for autologous recon (by my breast surgeon, not a PS), though I do wonder about fat grafting with silicone implants. I'm also toying with the idea of just going flat, but still haven't decided. Are you happy with that combo? Thanks, too, for posting the exercises. I'm about ready to get back into (light) lifting; I'm told that lymphedema can affect even those of us who only had two nodes removed, and I'm not planning to mess with that. Better to take a break, I guess, and look forward to getting strong again as soon as I can.

-kate

vavikingchick

I appreciate your anxiety Kate - its mine too. I also squat 210, deadlift 245, clean 145 (only clean and jerk 125) and snatch 100. My identity is very much tied to being strong and lifting heavy. Im so scared of not being able to be that person which sounds so silly compared to getting cancer free I know. Its nice to say it out loud though. No one understands how important this is to me - yes I know I have to get well and people are afraid of my diagnosis for me - but they caught mine so early Im not that worried about the prognosis, I am worried about what I have to do to get rid of it and what its gonna do to my ability to train. And now I sound whiny and need to "suck it up buttercup!" Good grief....the information in here has been invaluable and helps me think this through :-) And I appreciate being able to just say my fears without judgement :-) Hugs to you all.

SummerAngel

I am happy with my reconstruction decision - so far. I haven't had the exchange surgery yet, but I'm very much looking forward to it because TEs have rough edges that tend to poke me when I'm doing certain movements. I decided to go this route because I know that a DIEP flap can be done later if I have too many problems with the implants. I also really don't like the feeling of my pecs flexing when I do certain exercises, but I think I'll get used to them.

Vavikingchick, if you've had to come back from spinal surgery I'm sure you'll be fine with this no matter what you decide. I feel the same as you, no fear of the cancer but I want to get back to my old self. I feel like I'm most of the way there, even though my strength isn't yet. Even with the light weights I can see some of my lost definition returning and that makes me feel good.

I've never been an extremely heavy lifter but I, too, have always been proud of being strong and it's part of my identity. I definitely think it's possible for all of us to get back to where we were, it just takes patience.

Birdysmom

oh wow, this is educational and I'm following this thread with interest! I don't lift weights or compete in sports, but my job requires alot of strength (tightening a flywheel nut for example, takes over 65lbs of torque on a small engine). Not as much as you guys deadlift, but its my living. Chemo has given me less endurance and I'm horrified by the limits that surgery- removing one boob & some nodes- will cause. Can't afford to not be able to do my work, was so depressed and bummed out. But this thread helped put things in perspective. I'll post anything useful in the meanwhile. One thing I notice makes a positive difference is to be as active as the body allows without pushing too much and having a high protien intake. Excersise seems to facilitate faster healing:-)

KateB79

Birdysmom, I totally get it. I'm absolutely sure that I'm losing muscle mass every week--my MO told me to avoid commercial gyms until chemo is over, so I haven't been to the gym since July--but I'll take it. It's short-term, I have some light dumbbells that I'm cleared to begin using at home, walking is good, etc. In January? I'll be back. And it might take a while to get back to the weight I was lifting before, but that's okay, because I won't have cancer!

Birdysmom

An excellent view, KateB...cancer will be gone but we can bring out fitness back! A temporary trade off. Hand weights at home is a great idea, keep ourselves as active as possible. Thanks!

vavikingchick

So Im "on the other side" with surgery and radiation complete. All went very well and I am back in the saddle today with training (that's three weeks post op and 5 days post radiation catheter removed.) I have restrictions - nothing overhead, nothing that interferers with my chest wall for another week and a half. I can front squat, back squat, box jump, row (I was surprised but did ask specifically on this one), double under - basically no push ups/bench/pull ups kind of stuff - or snatch and jerking. I didn't ask about cleans but will likely lay off them just because of how much explosive pull is needed to get them off the floor and up to chest. On the 14th back to business as usual - doctors are just saying "start light - if it feels good keep going, if it doesn't back off" which is kinda what it was like coming back from spine surgery. So far so good!

Jennie93

Please be aware and take the proper precautions for lymphedema, if you had any lymph nodes removed.

Highly recommend reading this:

https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/58/topic/...

Jennie93

Also, anyone who might be considering implants, read this first:

https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/44/topic/...

OldDeadlifter

I'm not at your level but I'm a powerlifter. I'm still good at deads, expect to hit 305 by December. My bench sucks now. In my twenties I could press about 145. Now I can do 95 and that is on a good day. Squats are in progress ( my body shape is built for deads, but not much else so I'm hanging at 125 on squats and working on form).

I don't notice the implants anymore. I don't even think about them other than to gloat that I don't wear a bra. I am 5 years out from a bilateral preventative masectomy. I am BRCA2+. No history of anything other than that, I was lucky.

Moderators

OldDeadlifter-

We want to welcome you to our community here at BCO! Thank you for sharing your story; it's inspirational to other members who're are getting ready to undergo their own mastectomies to hear that life can and will go back to normal!

The Mods