4 vs. 6 Taxotere/Carboplatin Infusions?

debiann

Alibeths, I said the same thing EVERY round. Amazingly, I made it through all 6 and lived to tell about it. I hope things get better for you

MaryJC

well I'm almost done w/chemo God willing so I'll get some L-Glu since I know it worked for you.

I tell u this I am loving having met other ladies who are into the clinical research like I am! Have u read on ketogenic diet and cancer? I am on/off keto. It's hard to stay in the zone but it works! I felt the tumor shrink!!! But the path report only measure the 'cancer' which was invasive so outside the tumor. It went from feeling like a chick pea to a lentil. I'm working to get back in the zone now.

This is not the most 'clinical' site but it explains it well http://m.canceractive.com/cancer-active-page-link....

There's also tons of research on sugar which btw aggravates neuropathy! Before treatment I was not on sugar but brown my tummy n chemo tongue (ARGHHH) only sugary stuff I can tolerate. Resumed my non sugar today so I thought until I ate a bunch of prunes- stupid! Immediately felt it. It does settle down during my fasting days so I know it can be beat.

Italychick

MaryJC, I have been doing a variation of the Ketogenic diet for four years, lost 50 pounds. I only eat protein, fat and vegetables, and avoid all processed carbs. for fruit, I eat only berries and grapefruit, but the grapefruit I avoid if I have to take a medication during chemo because it interacts with so much stuff. So, for example, if I have carbs, it is something like half a yam. And then once a week, I have a "cheat meal" to keep my metabolism going. That has been sabotaged by chemo, but I am ready to get serious again. Too many darn cookies!

As far as neuropathy, I actually notice the tingling the day I have to take the steroids, which is the day before chemo. When I quit the steroids on day 3 post chemo, the tingling subsides. I also supplement the hell out of potassium and magnesium during chemo, because the Taxotere and Carboplatin deplete those substances. My potassium actually went a little low since chemo has started, but I also exercise like a lunatic (riding my bike 110-115 miles per week, and also waking and hiking another 10-15 miles), so that has probably caused my potassium level to lower as well. For 10 days around chemo, I cut out all other supplements because I am worried about antioxidant interaction with chemo. But the magnesium and potassium keeps me pooping, and I haven't taken any drugs other than what I get the day of the chemo infusion in my IV bags, and the steroids and Claritin for the Neulasta shot. My white blood cell count has stayed consistently high too. So something is working for me.

I also do magnesium and Epsom salt bath soaks, probably 3-4 times a week. To me I treat the side effects scientifically and I know that pain medication and anti nausea medication create their own set of side effects, so I do what I can to avoid taking those substances. Sorry for being so long winded.

I also use coconut oil in my mouth and a tongue scraper, and usually my chemo mouth disappears after about four days.

SpecialK

maryjc and Italy - I have always eaten well, but gained on chemo due to fluid retention and steroids, most lose it right afterward but I did not.  I also gained and had a lot of joint pain on aromatase inhiitors (hormonal therapy) after chemo.  I tried 1200 calories of good food and five miles a day, and I could not move the scale for six straight months.  Then I switched to an elimination anti-inflammatory diet.  No sugar, soy, dairy, peanuts, gluten, eggs, or corn.  These foods are avoided due to their high rate of sensitivity or allergy, or because they are pesticide laden.  I eat organic, grass fed, pasture raised, high fiber, low glycemic index.  I did add eggs back in occasionally.  Pounds came off - 22 of them, with zero exercise because I had surgery in March, April and May right when I started this - and joint pain dissipated tremendously. I also did not take much during chemo, other than the anti-neuropathy stuff.  I did not need anything for constipation since I had the opposite problem, and I didn't medicate that either - mostly just did the BRAT approach.  I didn't really take anti-nausea meds - I am not prone to nausea, and didn't do the before/during/after steroids until half way through, I had only received them in pre-meds the day of chemo for my first three, but then developed a rash so they gave me more.  My labs suffered, but not out of the ordinary, I kept my hemoglobin up with red meat and leafy greens.  My WBC were good throughout with Neulasta, and I did very well with Claritin, had no discomfort.

Italychick

oh, forgot to say all my food is organic. We get our meat from a Montana farm where the cows and bison are free range and get no antibiotics, grain, etc.

Did your MO agree to the no steroids, or did you do it on your own? I feel like they really mess me up, but since I have been doing so well, I am scared to not take them, recognizing I hate the way they make me feel

Alibeths

Italy,

What do you do with the coconut oil!! Does it help? My tounge feels soooo burnt. Help😘

MaryJC

hey Italy, you raise a good point re the steroids! I'm titrating down from prednisone now. The steroids raise your sugars! Along with everything else. So yes while they are in your system, u will feel it more. I go down another 10mg on 5/12 and praying I have no symptoms from other issue. I already had some neuropathy that was controlled thru no sugar and the ALA/ALC supplements. When told had to do prednisone was excited, thinking great an antiinflammatory, it'll for sure knock the rest of this neuropathy out. NOPE, just the friggen opposite. Raises your glucose levels, BP, everything meanwhile shrinking your immune system. It is good that it raises your WBC in the case of chemo tho.

Awesome re keto. Let's partner up and help keep each other on point. I'm happy to pm you my email. Ugh I just looked at some cookies in the fridge. Gluten free chocolate chip. But my stomach churns a lil as I ate some after treatment n then funky guts started. I felt so barfy. Perhaps I'm cured of my chocolate addiction haha

It's good to still include some fruits. But as u know a lot are anti keto. I do fruits too. And I told myself this time around will use Saturday's as chest day too! I noticed my hair actually shedding. This was b4 bc/chemo etc. I saw the bulb n couldn't understand why. Then I read recently that the lack of sugar on keto contributes to that. I was researching the exact opposite hoping that keto would help my hair grow faster after chemo. Now I know why it was shedding before. So I'll include more fruits- just got a lol weary of berries but good ol fashion apples n oranges seem to not compromise the neuropathy. The Granny Smith least sweet.

WHOA re your exercise🙌🏾! Where do u live where u hike and ride like that? I'm in NYC. I'm a runner. Have runners knee n btwn that n funky guts have not in a few weeks. Actually saw dr today. We'll see if this round of PT helps. Last round thru another dr, where knee was just tight, after PT BOTH knees were hurting! Was sooo mad. So had to get myself back to where I was. Then had 4th infusion n now here I am. Got a new pair of sneakers today n God willing resume with a light run tmw. I'm praying my knees hold up and new wig stays tight haha!

What does the magnesium do? I have a toddler. No time for baths but can try! Wish me luck tmw! Running is my primary exercise n #1 stress reducing activity. Other than prayer😇

Italychick

I rub it all over my tongue and gums, several times a day. You only need a tiny amount, like 1/4th a teaspoon. I think the tongue scraper helps too. All these brown and green gunky cells come off my tongue. Totally disgusting. But hey, whatever works.

MaryJC

brown n green cells??? What is THAT?

Italychick

MaryJC, I live in San Diego, so I can pretty much exercise every day. I switched to the bike about two years ago because it is less aggravating and inflammatory to my system, cortisol, etc.

I had a lot of hair loss on a super low carb diet which is why I added some things like yams and beans into my diet. And that stopped the hair loss. I'm not entirely sure, but it looks like I see black hair follicles appearing on my head. But too early to tell anything, and I'm sure the next three chemo rounds will stop all of that. But the hair I have left has gotten longer. Whenever you change diet, it kind of shocks your hair follicles which is why hair falls out. Also, I added back some, safe carbs because my body temperature started dropping, which told me my thyroid was getting affected.

I do magnesium baths to try and help prevent neuropathy.

Yes, I would love to pm and email. I am into doing whatever I can to avoid medication side effects, and any tips you have would be awesome.

MaryJC

awesome re organic! I get as much as I can afford. I hate the cost of being healthy. I'm about to startsking my own pasta sauce so to move away from jars. NYC has pretty decent farmers market. But doesn't start until July and goes thru thanksgiving. There are a few that are year long but of course the crops are not the same. I get my beans organic in 25lb bags. Those are like magic beans! They cook so smooth n soft.

Everyone is swearing on coconut oil now. So I'm all in. WHats a good brand?

MaryJC

oh its magnesium baths? How do u do that? Likewise looking forward to tips too! I have an aunt, bc survivor btw who lives in San Diego. Crazy but I too noticed some faint stubble... I think😁. Other ladies have said their hair started sprouting towards their last chemo but all lashes n brows came out. I wonder if it has to do with the cycles hair grow on. Nonetheless I want my hair back ASAP! I'm enjoying wigs and will prolly incorporate into my style after I get my locks back. I have about 5 diff styles and switch them up whenever I please. Ok will PM you

SpecialK

Italy - we did not discuss the no steroids - he believes in giving less until you need more, if you do at all.  I also cheated and cut my after chemo steroids in half and stretched them out to avoid the crash and to make me less steroid-y.  That is not really a word, but you know what I mean.  I was OK with being a little amped with the night before because I could buzz around and cook and clean, pay bills, do laundry - that way I had no chores or tasks for a few days right after chemo and I could chill.

maryjc - I did not lose all my brows and brows/lashes did not cycle, what was gone at the end of chemo was as bad as it ever got - I was fortunate.  I lost all bottom lashes and had random top ones, looked a little bit like spiders, lol!  I just piled on the eyeliner and used powder and tinted gel on the brows.  I did not lose all my hair - and it did not fall out until day 24, which was weird - I buzzed it to about 1/2 inch, and then some of it fell out but a lot stayed - my husband described it as a dust bunnies on my head.  Even though I was on Herceptin - which for some slows new hair growth - I went without a wig after 4 months.  We have the opposite situation with Farmer's Markets here in Florida - they are all in the spring and then it gets so hot nothing will grow - now is the peak for them.

SueH58

Theresa, mind if I ask you what you do for a living?

Also, aside from my niece (who even makes her own babyfood), I've never seen anyone eat as healthy as you. Kind of ticks you off that all you did for yourself didn't prevent cancer. And, I humbly admit that I haven't always take the best care of my body, so if one of us should have gotten the big C, it should have been me.

I have been trying to eat more organic food, and meat without nitrates. But haven't moved entirely to anti-hormone meat yet. What about the California strawberries. They're big, beautiful and juicy. But now I hear their fields are tilled in methyl bromide, which is totally scarry. How does the gov't allow that???!!!

Italychick

I am an intellectual property paralegal, doing patents, trademarks, etc. Berries are something I definitely do not eat unless they are organic. So the strawberries with the methyl bromide, pass.

I don't think what we eat or don't eat seems to matter, honestly, but I still eat organic just because I feel it is better for my body. I think we are bombarded by so many environmental toxins that those things are causing cancer in people who wouldn't otherwise have it.

I wish there was some answer.

MaryJC

ugh, so true and infuriating

MaryJC

hi ladies, oh the irony! Due to neuropathy my onc emailed me that she met with the breast team (one dr doesn't make a decision by themselves) and the consensus was no more chemo. Boy was I elated and jumping for joy literally! I def had a lot of questions n concerns about risk of recurrence but I was more worried about what 2 more chemo rounds would do to me even at a reduced dosage.

I def wanted to be recovered from chemo sooner than later so that I can reset my body on my nutritional A-Game which I wasted no time doing today.

Meanwhile I had my first acupuncture session today. It was primarily to address neuropathy but added other non-bc things too. The most important was inflammation which contributes to most illness. And asked for work on my runners knee too! My onc said the neuropathy is reversible.

Special K, I'm gonna pm you my email address. I have a few questions for you also needed to know the brand of L-Glu you recommend.

That's my update. Happy Mothers Day!

Italychick

MaryJC, what were your symptoms? I am just wondering. I have 5 and 6 ahead of me, dreading them.

MaryJC

do u mean neuropathy symptoms? Finger tips tingling/numbness. Bottoms of feet feel prickly. Of course the cheesecake I nipped on made it all worse. It's settling down now thank God. It'll take some time for it to dissipate. Plus I'm on prednisone which raises the body's sugars and makes neuropathy feel worse.

Jerseygirl927

learning so much from you gals, my numbness in thumbs are most effected, so watching the sugar levels a little more. I noticed the neulista shot was less since I started the clariton earlier and continue, so much relief from that. I have been using the coconut oil for years and it also helps with my acid reflux issues. I will work on the mouth as it has microbial effects too. Have a good day all.

Alibeths

where in nj are you from?

MaryJC

I gotta get with the coconut oil. I'm hearing about it for everything. What's a good brand

VioletKali

I only had 4 rounds of Carboplatin and Taxotere, BUT I was a chemo quitter. I could not complete 6 rounds, I hated the way I felt and I was *done*. I had 2 separate blood transfusions and nausea that would not abate no matter what was given, so I feel that it must have killed enough. If it did not, I have no regrets.

My MO is awesome and understood my reasons, he did not try to push for more.

Italychick

Thanks VioletKali. I haven't been having violent side effects, but reading on neo adjuvant forums, it seems like if the chemo works, it usually does after 2 or 3 rounds. I just wonder if 6 isn't overkill.

MaryJC

VK, I wouldn't call you a a quitter. If it was hard to tolerate in any way then that's what it is. For me it became toxic with the neuropathy.

Italy Chick, you raise a good point about the neo adjuvant observation. I didn't even make that connection. The thing I wonder is that with adjuvant chemo- it's to prevent recurrence and knock out any micro-metasteses in any cells a machine can't pick up. This is to mainly address distanct recurrence but of course local too where the targeted therapies are to reduce local recurrence. So my question is this: if 2-3 rounds shrinks the palpable rumors, is it safe to assume it had killed any/all micro cells?