Tumor enlarged after taking alternative medicine. Very nervous!!

mellowtime

As I'm waiting for my surgery I thought I'd take some supplements, not in the hope that they'd cure me, but wished they'd slow down/control the growth of tumor. Little did I know that I'm in for a surprise!

I took ultrasound/mammography/ultrasound-guided needle biopsy in early August which gave me the diagnosis. I just took a round a MRI/ultrasound again, and the tumor has shown amazing growth in the past 5-6 weeks:

- The primary tumor grows from 1cm to about 2cm

- There was one involved lymph node which was biopsied in early August, today they saw 3 grossly enlarged nodes on ultrasound. The biopsied one also grow from 0.4cm to 1cm.

The radiologists and BS have no explanation for this. They think it's due to discrepancy in different tests. I disagree. I definitely can feel the change in tissue in my breast surround the tumor. There seems to be an inflammatory reaction.

I told the doctors what I've been taking:

- Vitamin D, 4000 units/day

- Carrot juice, 1 quart/day

- Curcumin

- Apricot seeds, 20-30/day

- DIM, 450mg/day

All the doctors dismissed it and said the change has nothing to do with what I'm taking. But they also could not explain why the sudden growth. Two radiologists both said they've never seen something like this.

Please help! Has anyone taken alternative supplements and experienced something like this? Very nervous now!

wrenn

I agree that the same thing would have occurred had you taken nothing.  I hope your doctors have a treatment plan scheduled for you. Breast cancer is scary let alone when it grows quickly. Take care.

proudtospin

deep breath....I agree with your docs and think your supplements may not have helped but certainly did not hurt you.

I assume you are heading to surgery?

I never did your supplements but focused on feeling stronger and as healthy as I could, dang but I became known as the Kale lady! (this was 7 yrs ago before the Kale nuttiness)

now go keep busy till your surgery....when is it? it never helps to sit and worry~~

mellowtime

The surgery was scheduled to be today but due to the need for some additional tests it has to be postponed. I'm trying very hard to get the next time slot as soon as possible. My BS is very popular and has an extremely busy schedule.

mellowtime

It's a good idea to keep myself busy! Am trying to get the surgery done as soon as possible. Thanks proudtospin!

barremom64

I don't know if your biopsy was tough, but I had an "aggressive" biopsy, they had to stick me four times to get a pice of the tumor. I was sore for a month after that especially under  my arm.  All tests after that showed lymph node enlargement, turns out it was from the aggressive biopsy. Basically swollen lymph nodes. Maybe this could be your cause also?  ultrasound showed my tumor 1.1- MRI 1.5.  MRI's is the more accurate method of imaging.  I'm assuming your surgery is soon? diagnosed in early August and its almost October...lets get that s&#t out! 

All the best!!! 

Akevia

Biopsy will cause cancer to spread

wallycat

There is, unfortunately, NO way to know what your actual tumor size is until you have had the lumpectomy/mastectomy (which ever you choose or are told to do).

I was told MRIs are 99% accurate and my tumor was 7mm.  Um...NO......1.8cm once in the dish.

Supplements at this point are doing nothing.  You have NO pathology and do not know how aggressive or non-aggressive your tumor is.  Take deep breaths till your surgery and wait for a real answer.  Diagnostic machines do not KNOW anything.

I hope you get great news, such as any cancer dx can be.

juneping

i had my MX 6 weeks from my biopsy.....and i felt it grew double of the size as well. i was also taking some supplements like vit C aloe vera stuff. i honestly don't think its the supplement, i actually think it's the biopsy kind of stimulate the tumor to grow. mine was huge but i didn't feel it 4 weeks prior to my first time notice of the gigantic lump....

mellowtime

barremom64, it's comforting to know not all swollen nodes have cancer cells in them. Keep my fingers crossed!

mellowtime

akevia, that's my fear too... but all doctors told me that's not true...

mellowtime

I too have the feeling that the expensive diagnosis tests are not really helpful. Thanks Wallycat!

mellowtime

Glad to know that  I'm not alone! All the doctors disagreed that biopsy can cause this... By the way, juneping, I noticed you are doing chemo. Would you mind telling me a bit more about how you decide on your treatment plan after surgery?

juneping

mellowtime - i did not do chemo. i only did the surgery and taking the hormone blocker.....

just sharing here - i had my surgery around xmas time and took the holiday season to recover, what a pleasure to spend the holiday..**sarcastic**. then i went back to work which had a deadline right after i went back to work. i hung on for less than a month and then took some time off (short term disability). i was coming here a lot and watching a lot of documentaries on netflix. and someone recommended me reading a book "what your doctors might not tell you about breast cancer". after i read that i made up my mind of not doing chemo. i am less than a year out. so i don't know.

i am an architect and my job requires me a lot of brain power. i know i will be miserable not be able to use my brain. i love what i am doing and i don't want to sit at the side line and doing mediocre work. i don't trust big pharma to begin with.

i have an integrative doc who told me eat plant base diet, low GI index food and exercise everyday, like a meal.

juneping

btw, i am only just started my jouney in the 40s age bracket

Moderators

Dear Mellowtime, welcome to the BCO community. Sorry you need to be here but glad you found us.

You have joined a terrific group of supportive and knowledgeable people who can offer wisdom, information and their own experiences. From diagnosis until surgery is a very stressful time and most everyone here knows what you are going through. Although the supplements you took were generally taken by many members on these forums, it is always important to continue a dialogue with your treatment team, especially if they have a department in complementary treatment. 

We understand you are worried. You may find it helpful to read about Rate of Cell Growth, as well as about Size of the breast cancer. You may find new information that could ease some of your concerns. We encourage you to discuss with your team, and/or get a second opinion. 

We hope that you have a good result from your surgery and that you can get there as soon as possible. 

In the mean time, use the education of reading topics on here and articles on our main site www.breastcancer.org where there is a host of quality information. The more you know, the better you can make decisions regarding your future treatments.

We wish you the best,

The Mods

exbrnxgrl

mellowtime,

Spreading of cancer, via biopsy is also referred to as seeding. Here's a brief but good article that may help ease your mind. If I have any advice to offer you, it's not to get ahead of yourself. Take it one step at a time.

http://community.breastcancer.org/blog/what-my-pat...

PS: I'm no expert but I don't think your supplements did any harm.

Momine

Why the long delay in getting you into surgery?

SelenaWolf

First of all, biopsy will not cause the tumor to spread.  As exbrxgrl pointed out above, the theory of "tumor seeding" is theoretical and never been proven.  As someone pointed out above, biopsies can cause bruising and swelling (I experienced both and was extremely sore right up until my lumpectomy surgery a week-and-a-half later), which can make your breast feel hard and inflamed, and - perhaps - make the lump appear harder- and larger than it did before.

Secondly, I doubt that the supplements you're taking have had any effect on the tumor.

Tumor size can only, ultimately, be determined during surgical pathology.  All imaging prior to that gives the doctors a fairly good idea of what they are dealing with, but it is not exact.  It's entirely possible for a mammogram, an ultrasound and an MRI/PET scan to provide three different measurement results.  Only when a pathologist can, actually, measure the tumor will you know for certain what its measurements and growth factor are.

abigail48

theory only does not mean "not"

mellowtime

juneping, thanks for sharing! I'm very concerned about side effects of chemo, that's why I was interested to know how you made your decision. I'm in early 40's, and also in a profession that requires a lot of brain power. Finding a good integrative doc is not easy. Is yours specialized in cancer treatment (naturopathic oncologist)? The couple of integrative docs I met work at big hospitals as support team, and believe alternative medicine is only complementary/secondary to the conventional treatment. I'm surprised at their lack of confidence in alternative med.

mellowtime

Thanks Mods! I'm really glad that I've found this place. Good to know that many are taking the same supplements without adverse effect.

mellowtime

exbrnxgrl, great article! Thanks for sharing! Biopsy is already done and irreversible. I'll focus on the challenge today, one step at a time.

mellowtime

momine, it's the frustrating experience with the big academic medical center. My BS is famous and sought-after, she is busy not just with patients, but also with teaching and research responsibilities. It's extremely hard to get on her calendar. It's extremely hard to ask a question and get an answer. This is one of the top hospitals in the nation, I know the surgeon is good. But I'm so  frustrated with the limited access to the doc, that I'm currently considering having the treatment at a local, much small hospital.

mellowtime

Thanks SelenaWolf! I've decided to stop agonizing over size and supplements and focus on finalizing the surgery plan and getting it done as soon as possible.

MusicLover

Mellowtime, Highly doubt it was the supplements.  If there is still some time before you get in for surgery, I think you can ask your oncologist for hormonal therapy drugs if your cancer is ER+ (assuming it is because you were taking DIM).  I know this is done some times to reduce the size of the tumors before surgery.  Ask them and see what they say. Best of luck to you.

Meow13

I remember feeling so relieved when my surgery was over. I couldn't sleep thinking the cancer might escape but my doctor said there almost zero risk of that in one months time. It feels good to get the cancer tumor out.

barremom64

mellow-I too was scheduled to have surgery with a top NYC Sloan Kettering doctor.  Weeks beofre surgery I called to ask some follow-up questions, no call back. Called again asked to speak to a nurse as I understood these a probably routine questions and the doctor is busy. No call back from the nurse. Many days later a call back from the office. I thought to myslef, hmmmm...what if Im home after surgery and have a side effect?  No one will call me back for days?  

I found another surgeon and every call was returned promoptly by her several times and the nurses if she wasn't available. 

After surgery you need clarification of path reports, ONCA scores and possibly the prospect of chemo. You need a doctor whose fully engaged. 

The only time Sloan called me back promptly was when I cancelled my surgery via the scheduling department. The nurse called back quickly to see why...

BrooksideVT

Imaging measurements do vary with the technician who is doing the measuring.  I witnessed my very own incorrect measurement, where a diameter smaller than the tumor's maximum was selected for measurement.  Officially, I had a 8mm lump; surgery produced a 1.1 cm lump.  Had I not seen, with my own eyes, the incorrect measurement, I'd have freaked.  Did I remark upon the lack of precision?  No.  I had enough worries, and the tumor would be what it would be.

Where the medical community addresses supplements is during radiation, where they are strongly discouraged, because of the theory (not hard fact, just generally accepted theory) that the rads attack cancer cells while they are dividing and supplements might give the little stinkers the strength to survive the blasts. 

Mellowtime, if getting on the surgical schedule is an issue, could you have surgery at your excellent hospital, but with a different surgeon?  That way, you'd have all the advantages of the better facility.  Also, as more testing needs to take place before your surgery anyway, perhaps your surgeon might have a cancellation by the time the results are in? 

Akevia

Mellowtime, my biospy cause my tumors to grow and spread faster. Like Juneping I felt and saw them grow. Most Doctors won't agree but this has been my experience. 

juneping

mellow - my integrative doc was also a strong believer in chemo and he pushed me for it. he basically told me i was irresponsible to my loved ones in a very gentle way. after he saw i wasn't going to change my mind, he then asked my onctype chart. he didn't care about the score but the recurrence % and the effective of tamxoifen and/or chemo. after i forwarded him the chart, he then said he understood me. **sigh** he's from sloan and i like him very much. i am in NYC in case you're interested.

re the BS - mine was quite famous, she managed to have her team to return my calls and questions very promptly. to me it's the bedside manner and how much they care about their patients matter to me.