Anyone who has been NED while doing alternative only?

voraciousreader

Light...here is a more recent pilot study with respect to fibroadenomas.  The current research is looking at what "environment" plays a role in creating carcinogenesis.  Note the conclusion....they need to look further at the pathologies of both benign and malignant pathologies to see if there is a "stroma" marker.  This tells me of the uncertainty of an actual CONNECTION between fibroadenomas and malignancy.  Furthermore, if there was a DIRECT connection, then there would be the need for mandatory removal. At present, complex fibroadenomas require biopsy, where as, simple fibroadenomas require observation. The question that remains unanswered is, Does having a fibroadenoma create an environment for cancer cells to occur?  That should not be translated as, Do fibroadenomas BECOME cancerous?  These are very different questions.

 

Stromal Signatures of Breast Carcinogenesis in Fibroadenoma—A Pilot            Study

 

http://omicsonline.org/2157-2518/2157-2518-2-123.php

"Historically, breast cancer research on carcinogenesis has focused              on the epithelial changes that precede tumour development in an effort            to explain the pathogenesis of this disease. Recent studies suggest ‘thinking outside of the cell’, as an emerging concept with the stroma            being partially responsible for breast carcinogenesis. The stroma            occupies over 80% of the volume of the resting breast and comprises the            area around the epithelial cells. It consists of fibroblasts, myofibroblasts,            glial, fat, immune, vascular, lymphovascular, endothelial, and smooth            muscle cells as well as the extracellular matrix, the basement membrane            and soluble proteins such as growth factors, cytokines, and hormones            [1,6-8]. Changes to this microenvironment, such as oxidative stress, tissue hypoxia, nutrient deprivation, and changes in pressure or            pH have been shown to increase the rate of DNA mutations, thus            causing genetic instability in these stromal cells [7]. Multiple genetic            events causing oncogene-activation and disruption of the tumour            suppressor genes have been identified in breast cancer progression.            Commonly identified genetic changes include gain-of-function            mutations in proto-oncogenes, loss-of-function mutations in tumour            suppressor genes, and epigenetic deregulation [9]. Such alterations            may occur not only in the epithelial cells, but also in components of            the stroma, creating an environment conducive to cancer growth. The            tumour microenvironment, composed of cancer cells, stressed normal            cells, stromal tissue, and extracellular matrix, has been implicated            in the progression, invasion, and spread of cancer. Carcinogenetic            characteristics include sustaining proliferative signals, evading growth            suppressors, resisting cell death, enabling replicative immortality,            inducing angiogenesis, activating invasion/metastasis, reprogramming            energy metabolism, and evading immune destruction. We believe            alterations in this host microenvironment modify its function and            phenotype with disruption of the epithelial-stromal cross-talk resulting            in neoplastic initiation. A schematic representation of the stromalepithelial            crosstalk in breast microenvironment is illustrated in Figure            1..."

 

 

Conclusion:

 

 

This preliminary study suggests early alterations in the stroma that              may precede development of the epithelial phenotype of breast cancer.              Such early changes may be due to alterations at a molecular/genetic/              epigenetic level similar to the multifactorial pathway of carcinogenesis              as seen in colorectal carcinoma. Improved understanding of host              stromal microenvironmental changes may result in the recognition              of ‘stromal signatures’ as potential risk assessment markers in FA              for breast carcinogenesis. Exploration of both benign and malignant              breast pathologies in larger studies is necessary for validation of this              hypothesis of ‘stromal signatures’ as risk assessment markers for breast            cancer in men and women.

 

voraciousreader

Selena...I see you too made the distinction before I posted!  Thanks! 

lightandwind

Yes, so the same mass that is diagnosed as a fibroadenoma and tests benign CAN later be tested and found that the mass is cancerous, because cancer developed w/n the mass- adjacent to benign cells, within or amongst benign tissue. That is all I was saying. I know that it CAN happen because it did happen to me, and I've heard others on here with similar stories too. No studies can take away real occurrences of non-cancerous masses later becoming cancerous masses. It happens.

 

Momine

Light, sure. However, Voracious and others were simply pointing out that this is not usually how BC develops and that in the vast majority of cases fibroadenomas are and remain benign. I had 3 huge ones in one of my breasts. All benign on pathology report.

voraciousreader

momine... I'm going to make this as clear as possible.  With the present knowledge that we have, researchers do not yet know WHY invasive cancers originate.  Nor do they have a marker to tell us why in the presence of benign tumors, invasive cancers could potentially grow and flourish.  When I was diagnosed with mucinous breast cancer, the radiologist looked hard to find DCIS because it frequently occurs with mucinous breast cancer. When they found "a drop" of DCIS with the mucinous breast cancer, I asked if the DCIS created the mucinous breast cancer.  At the time they told me they didn't think so.  Today, they STILL don't understand precisely which DCIS cells lead to invasive tumors.  With current knowledge, it appears more likely that benign diseases can create an environment for invasive cells to form.  The quandary for researchers now is to not only understand how cancer cells form, but identify markers for benign conditions that might lead to more serious disease.  Imagine, if we had that knowledge how many patients would be spared from DCIS over treatment AND from having to have biopsies and surgery for other conditions like fibroadenomas.

Light...I am not doubting your situation. I'm just pointing out for other readers that in the presence of complex fibroadenomas, invasive cancers might occur, but at present, we can't say that the fibroadenoma cells morphed into cancer.  You and your physician, IMHO, did everything right. Patients should be aware of breast changes and be followed by a reputable team.  And finally, research should be funded so this maze should be better understood so patients can be spared from unnecessary anguish created by under and over treatment.

lightandwind

I never said that ALL fibroademonas become cancer or morph into cancer. I said that these benign breast conditions CAN become malignant. That is a reality....and ALL women need to know it.

Momine

Voracious, yes, I understand. My only point was that if, indeed, light's fibroadenoma developed into invasive cancer, then this is an unusual turn of events.

voraciousreader

Light. I guess you are missing the point. No one has figured out how malignant cells form in the environment of benign breast diseases.  Nor have researchers figured out how malignant cells occur in the absence of benign breast diseases.  And, even with the best markers that we have for breast diseases, we still can't identify who will ultimately get breast cancer, nor can we determine once a breast cancer forms, which ones will ultimately lead to death.  So making a blanket statement that some fibroadenomas will progress to becoming cancer is STILL not accurate. Do fibroadenomas have the potential to become cancerous or do they create an environment to cause invasive cancers to occur and flourish is an unanswered question.  If you could provide research that actually shows where it says that a fibroadenoma actually leads to becoming invasive, I'm all ears and eyes.  And while you are at it, if you can find any research that tells my mucinous breast cancer sisters and me about the connection between DCIS and mucinous breast cancer, we'd love to see it.  I genuinely am interested.

And finally, if the chances of a fibroadenoma leading to invasive cancer was that great, breast cancer treatment guidelines would reflect that fact and warrant removal.  As of now, clinicians differentiate between simple and complex fibroadenomas and treatments reflect those differences. However, until the complexities of how cancer cells form are understood, all we can say is that there is a possibility that a complex fibroadenoma can increase one's risk of developing an invasive cancer in the future.  NOT BECOMING CANCER.....BUT DEVELOPING A CANCER.

lightandwind

Yes, but certainly not highly unusual or I wouldn't have seen so many other similar stories of women to whom this has happened. As I said my breast surgeon calls these certain hyperplasias and calcifications in breast cells- precancerous. She's a very respected breast surgeon who has spent most of her adult life studying the breast, so I guess she knows better than any of us.

voraciousreader

momine... I got what you were saying!  But my point is that just because something happened after something else, doesn't necessarily mean that the first thing caused the second thing to occur.  If science was only that easy to understand.

lightandwind

VR- I made no blanket statement and I refuse to provide you with more research where there already is clearly enough to warrant concern in this area. 

Furthermore, I personally don't need to research something to confirm what happened to me, especially when what happened to me has already been confirmed by my breast surgeon.

voraciousreader

light...I am not doubting your physicians expertise.  I am pointing out the research.  You do understand that within the medical establishment there are all kinds of debates with respect to the meaningfulness to even the word "precancerous."  Our labeling of conditions hasn't kept pace with science discoveries. And our science discoveries have only led to more questions and the desire to create better language terms to describe those discoveries and create better language to specifically address that what it is that we don't know.

Momine

Light, hyperplasias and calcifications are not the same as fibroadenomas. I realize you know that, but the way that post is written is a bit confusing.

lightandwind

That is most condsecending VR, but thanks for enlightening me. Whether you doubt my doctors expertise or not. I am not a liar, and I didn't just have my breast removed for no reason. My fibroadenoma turned into cancer.

lightandwind

Momine, the fibroadenoma originally tested years prior to diagnosis, as some kind of atypical hyperplasia.

Moderators

Dear Members, 

We ask that you move on from this current debate. While we appreciate the links and facts posted, it seems that this topic has been exhausted for now and we fear that the discussion has moved away from the topic of this thread: Has anyone been NED while doing alternative only. Please respect that if someone is looking for information on this topic they may get confused by the current discussion. Thanks for your understanding. 

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MsBliss

I am over 5 years out, NED, from triple negative bc. I did surgery, a lumpectomy, then a re-excision lumpectomy for a dirty margin. I had stage 1 triple negative, and it was growing at a phenomenal rate. I opted out of chemo and rads against the advice of many oncologists. I would NEVER advise anyone to leave a tumor in place--at the least, it MUST come out. The rest, depending on node and margin status as well as histo-pathology characteristics, is very complicated. I did utilize complementary supplements and lifestyle changes, but not a lot of lifestyle changes.

Deblc

Great to hear !