Ionized water-alkaline water

tangandchris

I'm not sure if these are the same thing, but I'm trying to find out if this stuff has real benefits or if it just a gimmick. I have a family member who drinks this, she was dx'd shortly after me with DCIS. She was told from the person who she buys it from that it can cure cancer or stop reoccurance. I've googled it and I'm not getting far.

Has anyone heard of this and has anyone drank it? I don't know that it would hurt to drink it, but I don't even know where to buy it.

Anyone have experience with this?

Momine

Tang, in my humblest of opinions (and I checked into it) it is nonsense. Most of this "special" water or the super-priced filters etc are sold through MLM-type or other sketchy schemes. There is no evidence that it does any good, and it is a huge red flag if someone claims this water can cure/prevent cancer, because that is simply not true.

Kudra

I do believe the more alkaline your body is the less hospitable you are to cancer. There are many ways through diet to make you less acid. To say any particular product absolutely cures cancer is going a bit far, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.(ha!)

Just because someone makes claims that are a bit extreme doesn't mean the product itself isn't helpful. Any change you make towards being less acidic, getting more nutrients and strengthening you're immune system are positive.

Kudra

I do believe the more alkaline your body is the less hospitable you are to cancer. There are many ways through diet to make you less acid. To say any particular product absolutely cures cancer is going a bit far, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.(ha!)

Just because someone makes claims that are a bit extreme doesn't mean the product itself isn't helpful. Any change you make towards being less acidic, getting more nutrients and strengthening you're immune system are positive.

Momine

From what I have read, the acidic balance in the body is very narrowly maintained, by the body. Any fluctuations are temporary.  If you managed to lower your PH to the point that it would kill cancer cells, it would also kill you.

lightandwind

Momine, I understand what you are saying about the body balancing itself, and I can't argue with this, but I also agree based on what I have read that fueling the acidity in the body by continually ingesting food/ water that is acidic is also potentially fueling disease, due to the energy that is required for the body to pull itself back into balance, so I tend to agree w/ Kudra in that regard.  

Also, the greens, lemons, etc. and other alkaline foods, are consistently shown in studies for various reasons to fight cancer, whether its due to the phytonutrients impacting some pathway to cancer, some direct cytotoxic effect, or some other, but I think it is interesting that it is the alkaline agents that are most destructive to cancer cells.

This study implies that higher pH from bicarbonate effects the ability of breast cancer to metastasize--at least in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19276390

Besides that, I feel better when I drink alkaline water, perhaps because it doesn't have the heavy metals, chemical, flouride etc. found in regular tap water, known to negatively impact the immune system and therefore fuel disease. So, though I'm not certain that the alkaline water itself is doing anything directly to fight disease, at least I'm not ingesting tap water anymore. Based on what I've read and how I feel when I drink it, I'm not throwing the baby out w/ the bath water.

tangandchris

 

How do you go about getting this type of water? Do you purchase it somewhere or have equipment at home?

My step-mother's sister buys it from a man who sells it for $5 a gallon, does this sound reasonable for this type of thing?

Momine

Light, the healthfulness of citrus, for example, may have nothing to do with PH. It could have to do with inflammation.

To the best of my knowledge there is absolutely no evidence to support any health benefits from drinking expensive alkaline water.

leggo

Tang, you can make the water yourself in several ways. Google will give you several methods. The easiest and least expensive way is to add baking soda, but it is very high in sodium, so I personally don't use that method. We use a reverse osmosis system that alkalizes the water to about 70-80%, depending on the age of the filter and add a few ph drops. Ph drops are available at most health food stores, as are the test strips. 8 on the ph scale is ideal. 

When you google the different methods to alkalize, keep in mind that doing this doesn't remove chemicals, heavy metals etc. That's why I recommend a reverse osmosis system. That way you're starting with water that's relatively pure. 

leggo

Forgot to add the cost of running the reverse osmosis and adjusting the ph. We rent for the system for $160/year, which includes the filter changes. Ph test kits run about 6 bucks for twenty strips and the ph drops are about 5 bucks a bottle. All in all, reasonable for healthy water.

Eta: I'm in Canada, prices may vary. Also prices vary greatly between different water treatment companies in my city, so shop around. Also, you can purchase systems and filters outright from any Home Depot. I just prefer the convenience of no-maintainence rental. Because we rent the water heater, softener and osmosis from the same company, we get quite a deal. Something else to be aware of if you're "bundling" your water needs.

juneping

this is what i found about alkaline water...

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/alkaline-water-l...

Momine

June, that link pretty much sums up what I have found too.

lightandwind

I haven't invested in a machine, and the systems sold by some companies are unreasonably overpriced no doubt. It's nice to know that they are reasonable to rent though so thanks leggo for that info. My local health food store has a dispenser and I keep plenty around for drinking, cooking etc. 

Momine, about inflammation and alkaline foods such as lemon, that was exactly my point. Over acidity in the body causes inflammation, inflammation is a precursor to cancer and other diseases. I see no reason why I can't help my body out by giving it what it needs so that it doesn't have to work so hard to stay balanced.

Speaking of balanced, Here's a balanced article I think we can all appreciate. It explains the clear overall health benefits of alkalizing, but also cautions against companies selling high priced systems asserting that it prevents/cures disease. .   

http://www.thestar.com.my/Lifestyle/Viewpoints/Wom...

Juneping, the article you posted I thought was balanced in that regard
as well. Obviously alkalizing isn't for everyone. According to your
article, it is specifically not for people w/ kidney problems which I thought was important to note as diabetes and other kidney related illnesses are fairly common.

Basia

I've just started drinking the higher ph water. I find that it helps neutralize the acids in my stomach and mouth. I am currently getting AC and with my second treatment had horrible mouthsores, but this last round after drinking the alkalinized water I had no mouth sores and just feel better overall.  I don't think it is a "cure" but it does help in general.  

Momine

Light, that is not what I meant, but carry on.

lightandwind

Momine, I realized that you meant that the food has other properties, that can address inflammation. I had said that it is the alkalkine foods that have the most phytonutrients, that decrease inflammation/fight cancer. If you read about the antiinflammation, anticancer diets, they all support the intake of  the alklaline foods. They don't go on about them being alkaline either. It just happens to be that they are. It's common sense, if were fighting disease should we choose an acidic candy bar or an alkaline salad? You say you eat loads of greens for health. So do I. I really think we are on the same page here. Here is another balanced article on this.

http://www.integrativeoncology-essentials.com/2013...

Basia, I agree. "It helps in general."

Momine

Light, sure, but I object to the focus on "alkaline" since most likely that is not the actual point, as you yourself say. 

leggo

Tang, I just read your post more carefully. Buying it from "a man" sounds sketchy to me. Unless it's pure water that he's using, imo, any health benefits would be negated by upping the ph of dirty tap water, in which case, you're wasting your money. Imho, tap water is the most disgusting and unhealthy things you can put in your body, regardless of alkalinity. Make it yourself....at least then you know the source.

SelenaWolf

While I agree that "alkaline" foods may have more phytonutriets, unfortunately it doesn't matter whether you eat an acidic chocolate bar or an alkaline salad; your stomach converts it all to digestive acid.  Stomach acid neutralizes alkalinity completely.  The only thing an "alkaline" diet will do is increase the pH of your urine, nothing else.  Basic biology.

lightandwind

Overall health is the focus. Alkaline foods are just a part of the equation. Just thought it was important to draw the linkages between acidity,  inflammation, and disease. 

Momine

Light, sure. It is just that I see another logic fail in much of the reasoning about alkaline food/water. If we put "green" instead of "alkaline," it would go something like this:

Veggies are healthy. Veggies are green. Ergo: green things are healthy and if I drink water that has been dyed green, it will make me healthy.

lightandwind

Momine, yes, but I'm not denying that alkaline foods/water are healthier for us because they are alkaline. I do believe based on what I've read that an alkaline diet lowers cholesterol. That in itself is a very good reason for why I, now knowing the impact of cholesterol metabolism on breast cancer want to keep this in my control as much as possible. For overall digestive health, an alkaline diet is necessary. 

http://www.h2oforhealth.com/clinical-testing-of-al...

We, at least I can't just say, oh loads of processed junk foods, sugar, are acidic so are good for cancer when we know these foods cause inflammation and fuel cancer.

Also, regarding the vita C, it is my understanding that though Vita C is an acid, it is alkaline forming which means that the foods w/ the most vita c are actually alkaline foods. 

http://www.livestrong.com/article/549473-vitamin-c...

Momine

The whole concept of alkaline vs acidic foods is somewhat sketchy. I don't see it as a valid foundation for approaching dietary health.

lightandwind

We each have to do what makes sense to us.

tangandchris

leggo-I know it sounds sketchy....my thinking too. This is a family memeber who buys it from him, and she is "insisting" on getting me some. She recently went thru rads for dcis and she believes it helped her to heal. who knows, I'm about to start rads and just finished chemo. I think the guy is kind of a quack, but honestly the science behind all of this is a bit over my head. My chemo brain cannot compute well lately Thanks for your input!

leggo

I don't think the health benefits of it are sketchy, just getting it from some random guy. I didn't think much of it myself at first, but I remember the horrible mouth sores and heartburn that accompanied my chemo prior to using alkaline water. Like Basia, I saw great improvement in round two, when I drank a lot of it. I find in general, my family's health improved overall. I specifically remember my one son being sick a lot when he was a kid, like every month he "caught" something at school. That pretty much stopped when we changed our water. Might be a coincidence, I can't say for sure, but I definately think the water had something to do with it. Then again, our municipal water was pretty bad to begin with, so doing anything to it was probably an improvement. To each his own. Everyone will have an opinion on it, I'm sure.