Wife with breast cancer, desperate to try any "natural" drugs

robby73

First off, thanks to everyone who posts here. We have drawn so much inspiration from this site.

My amazing wife of 13 years has breast cancer, and we've been fighting it all the usual ways. We are getting very serious about the diet and the natural things you can put in your body that help it fight off certian things, and just generally living a healtheir life. We hope these things will help her cancer, but there's just too much information out there on all these "magic" natrual health drugs. What is everyone here supplementing with? How have you changed your diet?

There are a few things we have narrowed down that we are looking at:

1) Baking Soda (seriously). Not sure of a specific brand, or if one is better than the other. Thoughts?

2) Fucoidan (seaweed stuff). All stuff we've read online says it helps against cancer. Its extracted from seaweed and there are a lot of options to purchase. We are looking at one called fucoidan fusion? Anyone have thoughts? http://fucoidanfusion.com/products/fusion85

3)Organic WormWood. Supposedly has direct anti-cancer properties. Specifically looking at this one: http://www.shamansgarden.com/c-97-wormwood.aspx Again, I think there are multiple options on the market. Anyone have experience here?

Any help or discussion is so much appreciated!!! Thank you and God Bless!

Momine

Robby, hi and sorry for what your wife and by extension you are going through. The 2 most important things, from what I can extract from all the info out there, are to exercise - any movement is good and the more the better pretty much - and to eat a good, varied diet focused on loads of veggies. 

Instead of a meat, starch veggie plate, make it a meat (or preferably fish), veggie and more veggie plate. I eat mounds of salad as well as cooked veggies. As far as starches, switch to high-fibre ones and get rid of the refined starches (if you haven't already). 

There is also some evidence to suggest (not prove, but strongly suggest) that it is a good idea to limit severely high-fat dairy. Ditto for red meat.

abigail48

chillipadi used a combo of aloe vera (I guess) & baking soda for dressing her trouble.  the soda dries it out, I used it once:  it's quite caustic, & I suspect the lymph is trying to heal.  the aloe, though I grow plenty of it works well but i never find time to remember it.  the artimesia I dearly love.  used the essential oil off & on on the dressings for 6 days last week.  another member uses it internally with buytric acid (ghee) as it stops being able to be absorbed rapidly. the literature says the oil is too strong & not to use it.  it has a very peculiar scent, causes vivid dreams, it has a bad psychological reputation.  I plan to use it again for another while in 10 days or so.  I know nothing about the other you mentioned.

abigail48

I got seeds for the moon stuff & I think theyve germinated.  baker creek seeds.  It's a beautiful plant from the photos

curveball

robby73, 

I wish you and your wife well and a treatment outcome that is everything you desire. It makes no difference at all which brand of baking soda, because there's no evidence that baking soda is an effective cancer treatment.

lightandwind

Hi Robby, I would not ingest baking soda that has aluminum in it. Arm and Hammer has aluminum. I get my baking soda at a health food store. Be careful as it can over alkalize the body, and has side effects. I usually just brush my teeth with it, and I figure it gets in my bloodstream that way. 

I get my artemisinin(wormwood) from Holley Pharmaceuticals. It's supposedly standardized and more concentrated than most wormwood supplements. There are some important things to know about this. Maybe you've done the research already, but you can PM me and I will try to help and provide some resources.

I agree w/ Momine about the diet. I think the more raw unprocessed enzymatically alive foods particularly greens, cruciferous vegetables, and other fruits and veggies the better...very important. Watercress supposedly turns off breast cancer signaling. You may want to research this. Food has so many healing properties.

Fucodian is seaweed. I buy seaweed in small bags and put it in soups. The  flavor can easily overpower any soup, but for the possible benefits, I don't mind so much.

Wishing you and your wife the best!

 

thenewme

Hi Robby, 

Sorry you have reason to be here and I wish all the best to you and your wife.

You're right - there is too much information out there on "magic" natural cancer treatments.  Unfortunately there is no shortage of snake oil salesmen who will say anything to convince you to buy their "magic" products and the problem is that so many of them aren't backed by evidence and science.  

Here's a resource you may find useful in your research:  Evaluating Cancer Information on the Internet

Re Fucoidan and Artemisia:  

(Source: Memorial Sloan Kettering)

Bottom Line: Fucoidan has anticancer properties but it has not been studied in humans.Fucoidan is a complex polysaccharide found in many species of Brown seaweed. It can slow blood clotting. Laboratory studies suggest that it can prevent growth of cancer cells and has antiviral, neuroprotective, and immunomodulatory effects. But there are no human data. Because of its anticoagulant property, fucoidan may increase the side effects of “blood thinning” drugs

Bottom Line: Artemisia was shown to be effective in the treatment of malaria.
Artemisia annua is an herb traditionally used in Chinese medicine to treat fever, inflammation, and malaria. A compound in Artemisia was shown to be effective in treating malaria in a clinical trial. Another case study showed that Artemisia was effective in treating chronic bladder infection. Artemisia prevented cancer cells from dividing in laboratory studies but clinical trials have not been conducted to support this.

Robinsegg

Welcome Robby,

Sloan Kettering is not an authoritative source on alternative medicine. That would be like going to the fox for advice on the hen house. They've been caught in questionable practices burying evidence.

There's a Dr. Henry Lai who is one of the world experts on womwood. You can find his website on the University of Washington page, I believe. And ask Jojo about Dr. George Wong.

But there are an assortment of about 8-10 therapies out there, many very cheap. Light and Wind has been curating them. Read back on the thread she began. Unfortunately, diet and excercise are not really alternative medicine in that's obvious common sense. People say they're doing alternatives by eating healthy. Well, of course. But you have to look into medicinal foods as well as supplemnts and the right kind of cannabidiol from cannabis. Please block anybody who tries to attack you and your wife's decision. We do have some negative people who mean well here but who are not educated in alternatives. They will try to warn you off but don't be deterred.

LAstar

My Stage IV friend is having good results with both turkey tail mushrooms and chemo.  It can't hurt to try the mushrooms.  There is interesting research out there on turkey tail. 

Lily55

i am following an alternative regime and did a lot of research myself BUT my regime is devised by a Doctor, she says you need a cytotoxic element, an anti angiogenesis element, and an immune booster. She also says that there is an element of guesswork in all cancer treatment but especially alternatives. Although I firmly believe in natural medicine, I dont think your own program is the best way forward, baking soda is not on the list of possibly effective natural substances but Artemisinin is. However you need this to be in a bio available format.  Curcumin (turmeric)  is well researched and effective but you need the liposomal version to absorb enough of it. 

So my advice Robby is find an experienced BC practitioner rather than Dr Google.

lightandwind

I agree about the mushrooms. Would encourage you to to research these.  I take "my community" mushrooms by Host Defense They contain all different kinds of mushrooms and improve the quality of my life.

BrooksideVT

Do be careful with apricot kernels--they contain the poison cyanide.  Some is fine, but be sure to Google save and unsafe levels.  I'm pretty sure wormwood at the wrong dosage is a poison as well.  Do your research, guys.  Like prescription meds, there is an effective treatment level (or range) and a toxic level of most everything.

lightandwind

Ronald, It is surreal to come to the alternative forum just to find people bashing alternatives isn't it?. There are many of us who read and don't post much anymore due to the harassment from un-like minded folks who simply don't get us.  We shouldn't let bullies who don't want us to have an alternative forum/alternative views here run us off but we often do. The mods are moderating the forum.  The idea is to disagree respectfully, or ignore what we don't like. Believe me, there are many of us who question the effectiveness and safety of various conventional approaches. 

Robby, I hope you are finding the kind of helpful information that you came here for.

curveball

It's not harassment to point out that there is no evidence supporting the effectiveness of particular treatment, whether the treatment is alternative or conventional. It's not harassment to suggest that the OP check any treatments he and his wife are considering, whether alternative or conventional, to see if they are effective. (And yes, there have also been threads where a bco member appeared to be making an unwise choice in conventional treatment, and other members spoke up to tell her so.) There is evidence that some natural substances will affect cancer cells. I would imagine it is possible to look up fucoidan and artemisia in PubMed (often available via a public library website) to see if either has ever been tested. Some of the substances mentioned already in this thread have been looked at for anti-cancer effects, in some cases with promising results, at least in cell culture. A search of clincaltrials.gov will tell you if the substance has been tested in humans, or you might find the published results of a clinical trial in PubMed.

I am not "anti-alternative". I have used some supplements and such along with my conventional treatment, and have considered but not actually used medical marijuana, which is legal in my state. What I am opposed to is saying nothing when a bco member is considering using an unproven treatment rather than one with known anti-cancer effects. The choice of whether or not to use conventional treatments is completely up to robby73 and his wife. If they, or you who may read this thread in the future, decide against conventional treatment for any reason, I am not going to try to change their/your mind. I am only saying, if anyone does decide to go 100% alternative and use no conventional treatments, please, please at least check the alternative treatments you plan to use to see if there is any evidence, even preliminary evidence like in-vitro testing, that they are effective in slowing or stopping the progression of cancer. By checking, you can avoid wasting your time and money on ineffectual treatments, or worse yet on some type of outright quackery. I would strongly suggest consulting with a qualified naturopathic oncologist if at all possible. Get the advice of someone who is competent and knowledgeable about the treatments you plan to use, whether they are conventional or alternative.

P.S. about artemisa. I have also heard of it as a promising cancer treatment, but be sure you have a trustworthy supplier if you do decide to use it. There are literally hundreds of species of Artemisia, and as far as I have ever heard, only A. annua (the anti-malarial one) is thought to have any anti-cancer action.

pipers_dream

Robby, I'm 100% alt at this point, though not ruling anything out if things don't work out as well as  hope they will.  6 mo out from dx and I still have my boobs and that's a victory right there.  My tumor has not grown at all, though sometimes I get hormonal and it swells up and I'm horrified until I remember this happened last month too lol and then it goes right back down.   

I'm doing all the usual stuff--special diet, daily exercise, relaxation and recreation, no alcohol, supplements, and I'll tell more about those in a later post.  I got myself to a holistic MD b/c it occurred to me early on that this is not a DIY project.  I found out I had parasites, and interestingly the meds they use to treat those have anti-tumor benefits as well--mainly wormwood and cloves.  Even the pharma ones like ivermectin have anti-tumor benefits.  There was "evidence" that this theory was correct anyway but then he tested my toxic metal levels and I tested high in lead and mercury so I'm in the process of having all dental amalgams switched over.  Yesterday I had 2 huge fillings replaced and it was grueling--I certainly didn't choose the easy way--3 hours spent in the dental chair and I have the smallest mouth cavity that some dentists have ever seen.  However, I only have one filling left.  I had something like 2 grams of just mercury in my mouth from all those fillings and it was poisoning me.  Dentist said that's about the size of 2 sugar cubes!  Ugh.  Also, I used to live in an old house and did a lot of painting and prep work and I'm sure that's where the lead came from.  I'm doing chelation therapy along with the dental work and he has me on tons of vitamins and minerals, b/c chelation also pulls out minerals and the lead comes out of your bones so need to be re-mineralized.  I'll be an all new person when this is all done! 

I feel very, very good most days, but have to stay conscious of two things and it's hard for me at times--I have to get enough sleep, which is hard b/c I'm a nightowl, and I have to drink a lot of water, which is hard b/c I didn't really remember to drink enough before, and now I need twice as much to flush the metals out.  I can suddenly find myself dehydrated when moments earlier I felt fine, so trying to stay mindful.  Good luck on your cancer journey and thank God your lovely wife has you--you are surely worth your weight in gold.  

Lily55

Robby here is a link on Artemisinin - you don´t say anything about your wife´s breast cancer.........type, stage grade etc.....and as you can see from this link there are a lot of variables to consider in alternative protocols

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22185819

Meow13

CurveBall,

I see you are taking Tamoxifen after Arimidex and Aromasin. Do you feel less side effects now?

I am taking exemestane because anastrozole(Arimidex) was very painful. But I think I can keep on exemestane.

MusicLover

http://therawfoodinstitute.com/raw-food-articles/kicking-cancer-interview-2/

The above interview is with a woman who states that she cured her breast cancer alternatively.  She seems sincere because it sounds like she worked her butt off to get where she is now. I thought it might be helpful since she used artemisinin also.

Here is another hopeful tidbit.  http://www.takingcontrolbyalyssiasade.com/

This a link to a website in which a woman states that her husband was cured of bladder cancer through alternative means. I haven't read her book yet but there is a youtube video about her stating that they used cannabis oil among other things.

I am wondering if anyone has put any value into Essiac Tea?  Thank you!

curveball

@Meow 13, I had no side effects that I noticed on any of the antihormonals, but I didn't take them for long. I stopped taking Arimidex and Aromasin because neither of them stopped the progression of my cancer. Neither did the taxol or doxil, for that matter. I chose an anti-hormonal treatment this time around because the doxil was so rough on me that I didn't feel able to face any more chemo right away.

MusicLover

Ok, I just read that book, Taking Control, that I posted about and well, it's ok but in my opinion it is not quite the story that they advertise.  They use alternative treatments but they also use conventional treatments too. So who knows what is working?  I wish them luck though.

luv_gardening

Robby and Music Lover, are you aware of Dr Kelly Turner and her Radical Remission book?  She studied cancer remissions that couldn't yet be explained by conventional treatments for her PhD in oncology social work, researching people to look for common factors that might one day explain their anomalous remissions.  She is setting up a website database of people who qualify as NED and invites new candidates to join her site, also seekers of cures can search her database and read the details of each remission and even talk to some of these people.

I know the study uses correlation, not causation, but the methods are mostly easy to use as they comprise emotional attitudes, various diets, exercise, social factors, faith and others that can be followed as complimentary to standard treatments or used after conventional medicine has failed. Those who had radical remissions used a combination of methods from many areas and that seems to be the key.

Scientific studies of these people are impossible as they comprise about 1 in a million cancer cases, requiring a study of up to 1000 million cancer cases to get statistically significant results, so retrospective, self reporting studies are all anyone can manage. Once clear hypotheses are formed it will be much easier to study those prepared to use these methods from the point of diagnosis or failed treatments rather than retrospectively.

Here are some links:

http://www.drkellyturner.com/rrp/    This is the database

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-14013/10-things-i-l... An article outlining the methods.

http://www.drkellyturner.com/ Her home page

Dr Turner is also on Facebook.  She's the first person known to have done a study of these people and I've been looking for such a study for at least a decade as it seemed crazy to study the failures but not the successes.  I have some reservations about her research methods, biases and conclusions but this database is all we have at the moment and her resources and enthusiasm are fantastic.

Lily55

wow Joy thank you, that looks really interesting

christineathon

Robby,

I wish you and your wife many more years together.  I am hoping the same for me and my husband.... i have stage 4 spine mets... i had liver, uterus lung and spine... i did vitamin c treatment for 5 months and all but the spine mets went away. They had given me 6 months to live... im at 2 1/2 years past that. You have to have it infused so find an ND near you. Now that i only have spine mets (stubborn) we are looking at weed... not THC, but CBD levels. I am on my own since the Drs told me there was nothing they could do. How many of us have heard treatable but not curable... so.... good luck with the naturals. Those were 2 you didnt mention and i wanted you to know about in case the others fall short. Much love, life, and support to you both.

lightandwind

Yes! This is the kind of information we all need. Thank you Joy! and Thank you Christineathon. This is  inspiration for many if not all of us here on BCO and we support you and are here for you! Much love...feel free to PM anytime.

geewhiz

Dr Turner's book is inspirational. You can also check out an interview Kris Carr recently did with her on her site as well. In studying the "radical remissions' there were basically 9 commonalities...and no surprise that diet, exercise and spirituality of some form figured prominently. 

CanuckMom

I have a very expensive MD that uses conventional medicine with alternative.  I am using some but not all of her recommendations, mostly because my oncologist does not agree.  Here is what she has suggested:

1.) fasting 48hrs before and 24hrs after chemo.  Healthy cells go into a protective state whereas cancer cells are not able to do so.  This helps to target the cancer and reduces side effects at the same time (I am fasting).

2.) High dose vitamin c injections (not the same as taking oral bit C) unfortunately my onc was not open to this one during chemo.

3.) Hypertherapy - I would really look at this one if my cancer became chemo resistant.

4.) Mistletoe injections. I will be doing this after chemo.

5.) Diet plays a huge role. I am now not eating sugar (including high sugar fruit), no dairy, no gluten.  All meat must be organic, grass fed, etc.  basically if you can pick it yourself or kill it, you can eat it..NO processed food.

6.) Vitamin D3, Vitamin B12, Corialus mushrooms, honopure magnolia bark, broccoli extract (oncoplex). Are all cancer fighting/immune building....and yes CBD oil if u can source it.

I juice a lot too with berries and veggies with chia seeds.  I am doing everything I can to prevent a recurrance...it's difficult but eating treats is not worth dying for (no alcohol either). Exercise daily. Hopefully we will find a cure! In the meantime do what you can.  I paid a lot of money for this advice...take it or leave it but it's free for the taking!

pipers_dream

Joy, thank you for posting about that book.  I went ahead and got the Kindle ed so I could get to it quicker and I'm looking forward to having some time to read it tonight.  I wanted to say on here also that I personally know or know of a couple of people who this has happened to.  The first one is the pastor of our church--a vigorous man well up into his 80's now, but he was dx'ed with pancreatic cancer some 20 years ago and they told him to get his affairs in order.  One of the observances of our church is anointing--a ceremony that is done for illness or impending death, and often more positive things as well.  Our pastor was anointed after the dx and then a week later went in for another medical test, only to find out that his tumor was completely gone. He never had surgery for that or anything.  He is the type of man who uses conventional with complementary methods but has gone more and more holistic with time and several more major health issues.  

The other case is another member of the church in our district--well, specifically her granddaughter, who is in her upper 30's now.  The woman had lived a fast and furious lifestyle and was even a meth addict at one time but went clean before the cx incident.  One day she went in for a gyno appt and found that she was completely full of cancer--it was so bad it was inoperable and stage IV besides.  She didn't have health insurance so while she was home trying to decide what to do,  she began to feel better instead and then decided to go see the gyno to see what was up. (this was over a period of several months) He looked up from between her legs with a look of utmost amazement on his face and said he had never seen anything like it but he couldn't find any sign of cancer and further tests confirmed that she was clean.  So far as I know, neither of these people did anything special for their physical body--in the case of the pastor it was a spiritual fix and he's convinced that the anointing fixed him.  The other lady?  I'm not sure--I keep in touch w/ her g-mother, who said she is doing exceptionally well and is very aware and grateful for what has happened to her and has a new mission in life.  I guess it should go w/o saying that she is now fully a mother to those two boys who are extremely grateful as well.  Her grandmother said that as far as she knows, the woman did nothing different, and yet if I had to guess I'm betting that she made amends with several people she had very likely screwed over with her messed up lifestyle.  

Another interesting thing about the juxtaposition of these 2 stories is that we have an extremely small denomination--our district is tiny compared to more populous churches and my church has about 18 folks on a Sunday, so it is very odd to know 2 people that this has happened to in the same district considering that the odds are about 1:1 million.  Or maybe they're better. . . Also, it is not a strong feature of our (Anabaptist) church that we expect miracles.  If you asked any member, most would probably say that we do believe in miracles, but in fact most of us probably don't expect them--most of us focus more on service and peace issues.  

luv_gardening

Thanks for those wonderful examples Piper.  The emphasis is usually on nutrition, herbs, supplements and occasionally exercise.  Emotional and spiritual advice seems to boil down to "think positive" or "avoid stress". Both of those are misleading as we can only think positive as long as we are aware of our thoughts.  

Think Positive
Mostly thoughts run rampant. Why did he say that? What are the government doing now? I wish this computer wasn't so slow. Will I make it to the appointment on time? Can I afford this? Do I look good in this outfit? Worry worry worry! OR... I love the new outfit. The meal is not cooked right. Her home looks good. She is giving the wrong advice. I was so silly to do that! Judge Judge Judge!

Avoid Stress
Stress is seen as external. We can attempt to take on less stressful jobs and lifestyles, but it's always those unexpected events that throw us. The same things we worry about. Or as John Lennon said, "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

I'm planning to start a thread going into these things but am busy catching up with the very informative threads on these forums first. I don't know whether to put my own ideas forward first before reading the chapters in Dr Turner's book so it doesn't influence me.  We'll see.

pipers_dream

Joy, my favorite spiritual exercise is a regular practice of gratitude.  Ever since I discovered that my life has been so much happier and 7 mo out from dx, I'm back to pretty darn happy again.  It's like no matter what happens, it's all good b/c I've had such a blessed life.  My favorite way to start this is to wake up in my comfortable bed on a Sat or Sun morning and feel grateful for how wonderful I feel in my bed, and then just let it ripple out from there--my fantastic daughters that I love so much, my little dog lying next to me, my friends that have been there for me, and it just goes on.  I'm grateful that we have music and the internet and art and . . . well there are so many things. Let yourself really feel it.  After you do this, it's so much easier to be positive.  

Also, and this is kind of an lol, but on the thoughts running rampant--that voice in my head is really kind of stupid.  I mean, I would never put up with that crap coming from someone else, so why do I put up with it from me?  It's just ego stuff most of the time.  

luv_gardening

Gratitude is a wonderful practice.  I hadn't thought of doing it as soon as I wake in the morning.  I'll start tomorrow with a wake-up reminder on my phone.  I'll start with your tip, and this great forum I've returned to after a break.  I'm aiming for eventual acceptance of all including all the so called negative things which lead to worry, anxiety and all the feelings we all resist.

christineathon

I am so grateful to everyone here who is sharing their knowledge, experience and support. It gives me hope and strength to keep fighting... Having cancer definitely creates a new reality for a lot of us and changes our perspective and expectations of life in detail and in general. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone posting in all the forums.... you have given me many gifts (hope, information) and I appreciate you more than you will ever know.