10 years out diet and lifestyle changes

Deblc

I actually posted this question in another thread but had only one response. I am wondering if all you 10+ year survivors changed your diet/lifestyle in any way. I am so inundated with "advice" to "go vegan/vegetarian" , "cut out sugar, dairy, fast food, soda" , "eat organic".... I am so afraid to eat my regular diet in case it really makes a difference with reoccurrence! My regular diet meaning, a varied diet and yes that included all the things I'm being advised to stop eating as stated above. Would REALLY appreciate if I got some responses on this

SelenaWolf

Well, I'm only three years out and I think I've heard it all: go vegan, avoid dairy, don't eat sugar, eat organic.  Thing is, there is really no hard evidence that has found a causal link between nutrition and a reduced risk of cancer recurrence.  (The jury is still out on the alcohol issue, it seems, with the "link" between higher alcohol consumption and breast cancer risk growing stronger.)  As much as we'd like to think (hope, pray) that good nutrition can keep the beast at bay, the reality is - in my opinion - it really doesn't.  Otherwise every single women who was vegan/no sugar-dairy-etc. would never have developed cancer or a recurrence in the first place.

So, after wading through wads of research and talking with my treatment team, and a cousin who is a nutritionist, I came to the conclusion that the best I could do for myself was to keep eating a balanced diet, with an emphasis on fresh produce, lean meats and fish, and whole grains, for overall good health.  By focussing too much on my diet and the "you shouldn'ts" - I can't enjoy the second chance at life that I've been given and the fear of cancer returning rules my life.  And I don't want that.  I want to enjoy my life and not look back.

But... everyone's different.

SelenaWolf

Sorry, didn't mean to post in the HER2 thread...

Deblc

Selena if it has to do with diet changes I would love to hear your response

SelenaWolf

Thing is, I was already following a wholesome diet when I was diagnosed.  I'm very active and have always been health-oriented.  I flirted with being a vegetarian in the past, but - with my activity level - it just didn't work; I needed animal protein to stay at a healthy weight.  I embraced the whole foods philosophy a number of years ago, using as my guide the saying, "if you're great-grandparents wouldn't recognize it as food, then you probably shouldn't be eating it..."  So, when I was diagnosed with breast cancer three years ago, there wasn't a whole lot I could "tweek" in the diet- and exercise department.

I read voraciously about "anti-cancer" diets and spoke to a nutritionist, and thought a good deal on the topic.  And, for me, I came to the conclusion that - while good nutrition may have benefits for maintaining my overall health - there wasn't a lot of evidence out there that certain foods contribute to cancer- or a cancer recurrence.  There are an overwhelming number of theories and opinions, books, and studies suggesting it - possibly, maybe, perhaps - could be, but many of these studies have so many confounding factors that it is impossible to draw any kind of solid conclusions based on the evidence.  Trying to sort it all out just about drove me batty.

Another thing that concerned me about "anti-cancer" diets and trends is that they are totally focussed on addressing the cancer issue.  Well, not only have I had cancer, but I have a very strong family history of other health issues that I need to take into consideration, as well.  Sometimes, I found a conflict between an "anti-cancer" diet and what I needed to address the rest of my complex, family medical history: in preventing a recurrence through diet, I could be creating another, serious issue/risk factor un-related to the cancer.  So, what to do?

Everyone has an opinion these days on what is "good" and what is "bad"; but a lot of those opinions are not based on the hard science of what nutrition can do and what it cannot do.  Good nutrition contributes to good health, but it cannot work miracles.  Cancer, unfortunately, occurs at the cellular level and - as some of the ladies on this board have found - doesn't seem to care whether you are vegetarian, vegan, gluten-free, sugar-free, paleo, alkaline/acidic, anti-carb, anti-dairy, no fat, or whatever.

So, for me (after a great deal of thinking and researching), I came to the conclusion to continue following the wholesome diet I embraced years ago: lots of fresh produce, bought in-season and bought local; lean meats, including poultry and fish (but, now, I'm trying to introduce more fish); whole- or ancient grains for energy; and I do eat some dairy (but not milk which I dislike).  I make my own bread and do my own canning because I love "homesteading" and I can control the quality of the ingredients.  I don't have a sweet tooth, so the "added sugars" thing is easy to avoid.  I still drink alcohol - wine mostly - but only occasionally.  In the mornings, I drink black coffee; in the afternoons, I enjoy green tea (black tea gives me headaches).  I eat about four- to five times a day: salad, fruit, vegetables, nuts, grains, and - if I'm due to go on one my 30 kilometer bike hikes, I'll have a bowl of whole-wheat pasta for energy.  I continue to exercise because I love it: biking, hiking, walking, gardening, I like to MOVE and be out in the sun.  And if the cancer comes back, then it's not because I neglected my overall health but because my body just likes to make cancer.

Unfortunately, you are going to have to wade through all the "advice" and try to determine what YOU are comfortable with going forward.  There's nothing wrong with going vegetarian/vegan/gluten-free/paleo/etc., as long as it's something that you feel will help YOU come to terms with how you want to live post-cancer.  For me, moderation works.  It allows me to enjoy the things I've always enjoyed: good food (prepared fresh), good wine (in moderation), and the people I love to cook for.  My quality-of-life needs those things and, after what I've been through, I want to enjoy my life.  Especially now.

I don't know if this helps or not.

edwards750

Selena - your response is the best one I have seen yet. You nailed it. I have heard and read about all the dos and don'ts about food and recurrences. I am of the mindset of everything in moderation. The fact is we all know many women get BC for not apparent reason - just an unlucky draw. For myself and my sister you could connect the dots from the fact our mother had it despite the claim 70% of BCs are not genetically driven. Every day its a new food or drink that should be avoided or else....a lady on this board posted that her Oncologist was lecturing about what to do and not even though she already HAD BC. The fact is they really don't know. I know several ladies who got BC who did not fit the alleged criteria at all. I don't intend to live my life avoiding everything that has been touted as cancer causing. Seriously? We have other cancers in our family too. Brother had melanoma and Dad had lymphoma. My grandfather had pancreatic cancer and my husband has had a number of basil cell carcinoma growths removed over the years. It is what it is. There are some things we simply can't control. I think the bottom line is you do what is best for you. BTW the "stats" for my particular BC predict a low percentage of a recurrence but we all know too there are no guarantees. I asked my radiologist should I feel optimistic about the Oncotype test results and she said absolutely. It isn't a perfect predictor but it has proven to be fairly accurate so I will hold on to that and go on living. Diane

Claire_in_Seattle

Agree that Selena's assessment of the matter is one of the best I have seen. I also eat a reasonably healthy diet, and nothing I have read has convinced that diet is a "magic bullet" regarding cancer.  Other than of course eating a wide variety of foods in moderation to fuel your activities.  I think I need more protein now than I did previously, but this could be because I do runs and not walks most weekdays.  I cycle on the weekends.  Or hike, ski, or swim.  I also do a routine of weights and crunches each weekday.  Speaking of which, exercise is extremely important in a way that diet doesn't appear to be.  It is also important for a host of other reasons.

My counsel is that if your diet is based on cheez doodles and diet Coke, then probably it could use just a bit of tweaking.  If you are shoveling in the veggies, you are probably fine.  I do drink wine, as one of life's great pleasures.  I finally got to the wine bar in my old 'hood last night, and then had dinner at Le Pichet.  Wonderful bistro food.  I am overdue for a nice piece of pastry such as that Nutella and banana croissant I had a few weeks ago when I had to do a thankless work task on a Sunday.

I cook most of my meals from scratch, and I think that makes a difference.  I make things such as Chicken Francese with grilled asparagus, and roasted carrots and potatoes (one of this week's meals).  I light candles and have wine with the food.  Life is a celebration, and I make sure I do this every single day.

One final thing.  If I eat sweets, I try to have the best available.  None of this Snackwell stuff.  The real deal with the finest chocolate, cream, and anything else the recipe requires.  My wine bar friends agree.....they are also out there running, and in fact, I am borrowing a tent for my vineyard camping and cycling excursion next weekend.

And no, I am not about to start the day with a tall glass of green sludge.  Tea yes, and I need to heat up some oatmeal to top with blueberries, cream, maple syrup and a touch of hazelnut flour.  That is my idea of how to start the day. - Claire

Deblc

Thanks Selena for the very informative response. My personal feeling, like you and Diane, is everything in moderation and to be more active (I was/am very sedentary). Everything I have read too indicates that diet doesn't really matter (or they don't know), apart of course from keeping a healthy weight.  My MO basically told me that as well. However, now I feel that every time I eat/drink something unhealthy, like a soda, it's a ticking time bomb! That's why I wondered if, from the boards, I would get an idea if most people really changed their diet/lifestyle afterwards. (What I really want to hear is, go ahead and eat that sugar laden cookie, it makes no difference lol!)

SelenaWolf

Go ahead and eat that sugar-laden cookie.  As long as it's an occasional treat and not a way-of-life, I can't see the harm.  But that's just me.  And, mind you, it's Girl Guide cookie time here in Canada; I bought two boxes.  It's the only time I ever have cookies in the house and my husband eats most of them.  But I do treat myself to a few of the chocolate ones.

"... One final thing.  If I eat sweets, I try to have the best available.  None of this Snackwell stuff.  The real deal with the finest chocolate, cream, and anything else the recipe requires..."

I'm in!!!  If anything, the way I've "tweeked" my diet is by ensuring that I use the best quality ingredients that I can find and that includes chocolate, cream, and butter.  I don't eat them everyday - or, even, every week - but I do not beat myself up about it when I do.  Eating fresh, local, nutritious and high-quality food is much more important to me than driving myself nuts about whether- or not something's a "do" or a "don't". 

[And as for that Nutella and banana croissant?  Sign me UP!]

I guess - for me - it comes down to the fact that I feel that cancer has, already, taken so much that I refuse to let it continue to control how I want to live my life.  And if I'm afraid to eat or drink because of the "what if", then the cancer wins.

But, most definitely, move more.  Exercise will not only help you maintain a healthy weight, it can do wonders for your state-of-mind.  You can't beat the high of all those endorphins coursing through your blood!

Deblc

Thanks Claire as well for the input. I don't want to be drinking green sludge every day either ! 

Claire_in_Seattle

You are most welcome, Deb!  Dinner was fab, and prepping for tomorrow's metric century ride.  Or at least I HOPE so.  My 5k run was a trifle on the soggy side.  Wonderful dinner w/wine.  No green sludge, but rhubarb with cream for dessert.

Off to bed as an early AM start. - Claire

Footballnut

hi there. While I am a recent survivor I thought that I'd join in the chat as I've been reviewing diets etc. I was never a great water but I wasn't the worst either. Did that contribute to my bc?  Who knows?  What about the wireless beams, the soaps, the air etc etc

So while I have changed my diet to include more veggies I'm still going to eat my fast food every now and then. I actually reduces my pop intake years ago but still drink it every do often

I was going to a gym 3-4 times a week and have recently started walking approx 3-5 miles a day because I enjoy it

Once I am fine treatment I will have a nice cold beer every now and then. Everything in moderation. 

Enjoy your life and do what works for you!!

:-)

AlaskaAngel

Selena, your comments were interesting to me. I see it from a different perspective, but come up with a very similar diet and some different conclusions.

I don't know how old each of you are, but I believe age/menopause is a major factor to consider when it comes to diet and breast cancer. It affects us in so many ways. Those who are younger at time of diagnosis and treatment are dealing with a different set of metabolic actions. They continue to have higher testosterone levels that support a fuller musculature system that then supports more exercise while having less of a tendency for body tissue to be composed of a greater percentage of fatty tissue. The issue of menopause turned out to be an "invisible" difference that made a big difference in how my body handled both food and exercise.

As part of the "big picture", there is also a major difference in the way in which different generations mentally assign values to various "foods". I'm in my 60's, and the general dietary composition of foods I was raised with and think of as "healthy" is very different from the dietary composition of foods that younger generations think of as being "normal" or "healthy". There is a huge difference between the diet beliefs and choices among those raised in an environment of home cooking and those raised in an environment of convenience foods and fast foods.

I was diagnosed at age 51 as a person who was within the proper BMI range and active. My genetics included an effective metabolic rate and, had I not had chemotherapy at that age I likely would have had menopause much later in life than most. I found myself very suddenly gaining weight despite exercise, and experiencing much more fatigue with exercise.

What helped me was that I was raised to enjoy fresh fruits and vegetables as a central part of my diet. That is quite different from the younger generation's experience and the choices they tend to make. But I still was ending up struggling bigtime wtih weight gain, and losing the battle.

I also wonder whether the chemotherapy that exposed me to huge doses of the antibiotic Adriamycin had the effect of changing my microbiome in a big way.

It took me years to find a workable way to stop the destructive weight gain I was struggling with. 

septembersong

Wonderful thread and a great deal of common-sense wisdom. Thank you all for sharing your insights and experiences. 

mmm5

AA could you share some of the things you did to overcome the weight gain, due to early menopause I have put on 15 and have never had a weight problem, I don't eat much, do bikrim yoga and hiking-\

AlaskaAngel

mmm5, it is good to see you. IMHO, those who are younger/less menopausal tend to bounce back easier, and those who are not end up miserably puzzled, trying all kinds of things that don't help like they did before treatment. Maybe my system just eventually sorted things out but I don't think so because it took almost 10 years to do it. 

This is in no way a scientifically researched diet. I consulted with an endocrinologist, who verified by lab testing that the healthy diet I was already doing was the best possible. Because I still wasn't losing any weight, he had recommended I do 2 hours of solid exercise per day 7 days a week, because my metabolism was so slow. I felt there would be no time at all left in my life that would not be strict discipline. I then requested a trial Rx of metformin after explaining to him that trials were in progress for patients with bc, and he provided it. 

The following is just what worked and is still working for me as a person who is NOT diabetic and who has no other chronic health problems than past dx of bc:

1. I did not start the metformin initially. I don't know if fasting helped me to "wake" my system up or what. However, I got to where I could not and would not tolerate carrying around the extra weight. So, even though it was hard to do, I fasted for 3 days, and then after that I fasted once or twice a week for 38 hours. I did light exercise every day. I stuck to avoiding most carbs, and having green salad once every day. I think I did the fasting for about 2 weeks, and then again once a month for about 2 months. It caused me to lose just enough weight to stay motivated.

2. After some initial weight loss that way, I stopped fasting and started a very low dose of metformin - for me just 250 mg taken with any meal that has more carbs than usual or more fats than usual - but as a rule I still stuck to avoiding carbs and having a green salad every day as one entire meal, with some unsugared fruit for dessert. Initially for quite a while I took the metformin up to twice a day, but after very slowly losing 15 pounds I don't often eat the extra carbs or extra fats as often now -- and I don't crave them as much, but I also am deliberately conscious of when to take just a nibble and QUIT.

2. I can't say for sure but I suspect that introducing some organic organisms consistently through diet brought my microbiome back into better balance. I use nonfat organic yoghurt because I like it, in place of sour cream. I like it on steamed veggies.

3. I continue to make the time to buy and prepare fresh meals and snacks that are mostly fruits and vegetables and nuts, with small portions of fish and sometimes chicken or pork or beef. But the occasional metformin helps with the enjoyment of a small bit of ice cream and the like. And I do not fast anymore, or go hungry.

4. If I am not getting major exercise, I won't get within 20 feet of anything like a muffin! 

AlaskaAngel

Brief fasting may have immune system benefit:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fasting-for-two-days-could-regenerate-the-immune-system-according-to-research-9506168.html

leggo

Regarding the metformin. 

http://m.cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/5/4/536.full

The article is ridiculously complicated so I needed a medical translator, but bottom line, metformin repairs breaks in our dna strands at the mitrochondrial level, causes them to grow longer. People with longer strands live longer. If there is one drug out there that holds promise, it might be this one. Everyday there's more news.

Don't remember for sure if this article mentions it or not, but antioxidants have a negative effect when using metformin.

BlueFox

The advice from Cancer Research UK can be summarised as follows:

It may help to prevent breast cancer if you

• Replace animal fats with polyunsaturated fats (in many vegetable oils and margarines) and monounsaturated fats (such as olive oil)
• Eat more isoflavones (found in soy, peas and beans) and lignans (found in vegetables, fruits, grains, tea and coffee)

We are not sure, but it may help if you

• Eat more fibre from wheat bran, cereals, beans, fruit and vegetables
• Make sure you have enough calcium in your diet – from milk and other dairy foods, green leafy vegetables (such as broccoli, cabbage and okra, but not spinach), soya beans, tofu, nuts, bread, and fish where you eat the bones, such as sardines and pilchards
• Eat plenty of fruit and vegetables

If you follow these guidelines, you will be eating a healthier diet. This helps you keep your weight within normal limits and can help protect against a variety of chronic health conditions. Reducing your alcohol intake can also reduce your risk of breast cancer and other illnesses.

For more details see http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-help/type/b...

However this relates to reducing the risk of initial cancer rather than the risk of recurrence,  but similar principles might apply.