Be careful of Dr. Robert O.Young.

MusicLover

I have posted some things on this board that I would do as a complimentary treatment, never replacing conventional treatment. Here is a story to back this theory up.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/01/27/cancer-quack-robert-o-young-is-arrested-and-arraigned-but-will-he-be-convicted/

leggo

Not that I ever agreed with anything Robert Young promoted, but everytime I see that Gorski dude aka "Orac", mentioned in this forum I shut down. I don't think anyone who is notoriously anti-CAM should be mentioned in this forum.....ever. JMHO: it always leads to arguments. It is an alternative forum, not an alternative de-bunking forum. He so reminds me of Dr. Oz.....sensationalizing everything just for the sake of "ratings". The only difference is Oz does it on television and Gorski does it on a blog.

leggo

Just for the record, scammers should be held accountable, but as for "Gorski", if and when he finds himself in the position of dying of cancer and continues to blog, then I might pay attention. Until then.....

MusicLover

I agree. Gorski is at the other extreme. I may change my link to another article about Young, not Gorski's. Sorry about that!!!

leggo

MusicLover, I just re-read my post and it sounded kinda harsh. I should apologize, not you. 

MusicLover

I'll leave that original link so your posts make sense but I do wish that I used a different one.  Gorski does not give any credit to naturopathic medicine, I don't agree with that either.  Cancer is a very frustrating topic, isn't it? Some would have us believe that early detection is the cure but we have all seen that is not the case either. The point I was trying to make is that when conventional medicine is an option I think it should be taken, maybe in combination with alternative medicine.  I didn't end up at stage IV because I was trying for a miraculous cure, it was solely out of stupidity. I have looked far and wide for a way out of my situation believe me!  I have found some testimonies from women who have amazing stories but you just never know when a higher power is going to intervene and for whom. I also remain suspicious of those stories too. Most of the successful stories I have seen with alternative medicine involved conventional medicine too.  Here is another link about his story:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1078614

Solen

Ugg.  I saw this in the local news recently (I live in North San Diego county)

One of the things about Californians is the love their "alternative" medicines. And will spend tons of money on them.   Many, are spot on with eating healthy, avoiding plastics, etc and for that I am grateful.  It is certainly easy to go out to eat here and have a very balanced healthy meal.  But some take it to the extreme, like the lady who cuts my son's hair telling me I needed to start taking "snake pills" that she gets in Mexico????  It will cure my cancer??????  LOL!!! 

So I am sure this quack was able to find many "patients" and make lots of money.  Really sad that people are not a little more skeptical.  I have a son with autism, and I think the autism world is even MORE full of quackery than the cancer world.  Because some parents are willing to try anything to "cure" their child.  And there will always be someone there to take advantage of that.  So very sad.

Momine

Musiclover, I hate for you to chalk up your stage IV to stupidity. The cancer is stupid, but you are not.

As for Gorski, I don't see him as anti-CAM. He is just firmly on the side of science and evidence. I know some people consider insistence on evidence anti-CAM, but after two years of reading debates on this, I still don't really understand why. My main beef with Gorski is that he likes the word "cure" a little too much. On the other hand, he is also really funny sometimes, so I tend to forgive him his excesses.

I watched the interview between Oprah and one of Robert O. Young's patients. In the interview the patient assures Oprah that Young is a "real" doctor. It is completely heartbreaking. 

MusicLover

Momine, Thank you for that. Yes, cancer is stupid and then some.

That story is heartbreaking. There is a woman featured on The Secret who claims to have cured her breast cancer by thinking good thoughts.  Since Oprah is a huge proponent of The Secret, I am sure that she wanted to cover herself.  Who wants to feel guilty for the death of innocent people because they told someone to think good thoughts. (I was thinking good thoughts but yet...)

Srh242

I dont like Orac at all!

DiveCat

Srh242, 

Yes, Srh, you have stated that in two threads this week that I have seen

I have never met him, so I can't say whether I like him or not, but I do read him and do often feel very similar on subjects as he does and I will freely say I agree with Momine on her sentiments about Orac, and I also do not understand why requiring reliable evidence that something is effective (not 100% of the time as I don't expect 100% guarantees in alternative medicine OR conventional medicine) is seen as a bad thing. I believe Orac actually says when there is evidence something works at what it is purported to do (even if it was previously considered "alternative")...it is no longer alternative, so I see him more as anti-alternatives-lacking-evidentiary-grounds (which is more of a mouthful), and, well anti-quacks because they can can cause tremendous harm. I don't know, I have had good experience with my medical doctors, in that they don't make promises, but they are honest with me and do provide options to increase chances and whatever else (I have not had cancer, but I have had other health issues AND I am high risk so have had experience with oncologists through my own medical history AND that of my mother and grandmother, who were diagnosed with cancer). Too many of those I consider quacks do promise cures, or horribly hold themselves out as medical doctors or whatever else when they aren't. That is frightening to me. I am not in the medical field, but I am in another professional field and I would NEVER make promises of an outcome to a client of mine....if I do say anything it is ensure they know that the negative outcome is very possible.

As for "thinking good thoughts" to cure oneself out of breast cancer, well, if "good thoughts" were that effective, I would have won the lottery enough times to share with everyone on these forums!

Momine

Musiclover, I wonder if it is the same woman, because she was also really into "The Secret." If it is the same one, she is no more. She lived 3 years with her untreated cancer (not even surgery), or rather with the cancer that Robert O. Young "treated." Her initial DX was stage 3, which is not great, but certainly treatable. Her name was Kim Tinkham.

MusicLover

Momine, Yes, the whole story is on the link at the top.

abigail48

interesting.  never heard of young, certainly he should have hired an md to do any invasive tests etc.       I didn't watch her video but below it it said she died 3 years ago not that she lived with untreated (but evidently diagnosed) cancer "not even surgery".  my first red show was 3 years ago march 15th.

exbrnxgrl

Kim Tinkham herself says she was dx'ed with stage III bc. I could not find the particulars of how or by whom she was dx'ed but it it is unlikely that she was self dx'ed. It is known that she died approximately 3 years after her dx. 

Edit: I just rewatched her interview with Oprah, 2007. Ms. Tinkham  states that she was dx'ed some months after hearing about " the secret" in 2006. She mentions that she consulted several doctors, so I am assuming she had a conventional dx. She passed away in December 2010, so yes, she did die 3 years after her bc diagnosis.

SelenaWolf

I read orac just about everyday and agree with him on most points, especially science-based/evidence-based medicine.  And I agree with him on CAM on one point: most of the treatments currently advocated by CAM are really science- and evidence based, i.e., the benefits of good nutrition, regular exercise, etc.  These have, always, been part of conventional medicine, but - for some reason - they've been high-jacked by CAM as being "alternative" and not part of conventional care.  Like a great deal of CAM, this is a faulty interpretation of the facts.