Vein Ablation for leg lymphedema ?

KittyDog

Has anybody herd of have vein ablation for leg lymphedema.  I have good blood flow and a good pulse in my legs and feet.  This Dr. thinks he can help reduce some of the volume by doing vein ablation.  He said it might not be much but he has had LE Patients to get an improvement.  I am scared to death to try it but I have till Feb. to make up my mind.  He thinks by veins are also being overloaded due to the overload of the lymphedema.  The good news is that I have good blood flow so that is not the reason for my feet turning purple all the time.  He gave it a name but of course I can't remember that one.  I was essential told the same thing about my LE hand turning purple.

Benny any thoughts are appreciated.

coraleliz

Recently spoke to a man who had "varicose vein surgery" bilaterally. This seemed to bring on edema in his lower legs. I assume this is "lymphedema". But I could be wrong. My PCP thought I should talk to a surgeon about my varicose veins & possibly have them treated before they get any worse. I'm waiting until I finish Tamox to do anything. I think it might have an estrogenic effect & be making veins worse. Hope somebody knowledgeable chimes in, I'd like to know more about what can be helped & hurt by vein altering procedures.

Binney4

KittyDog, all I have to offer is an opinion, as I don't know of any studies that show the outcomes of this for LE. Anecdotally, though, I know of two people whose LE was caused by vein ablation. I'm no doctor, but with what I know of the lymph system I can't think of any theoretical way that this procedure could positively effect the drainage of lymph fluid from your legs. So my opinion (for what it's worth!) would be to go with your "scared to death" gut feeling and just continue with the LE self-care.

What a tough decision! We're so vulnerable to hope of any kind, whether well-founded or not. Do let us know what you decide. We're here for you whatever you choose to do!

Hugs, extra chocolate,
Binney

corky60

Hi KittyDog, I don't have lymphedema but have had vein ablation for varicose veins.  I had painful veins and had it done five years ago.  I have a family predisposition to varicose veins.  Now my other leg veins have had to take over for the ones that were removed and they are getting sore and swollen.  I have to wear support hose and I also take a supplement called Venocap when they are really bothering me.  If you don't have varicose veins then why have it done?  To the best of my knowledge the veins and the lymph work on two different "plumbing" systems.  Binney of course is right, we are vulnerable to hope of any kind.  Please do your homework and best of luck and ((hugs.))

KittyDog

Benny I will go with that gut feeling.  I will cancel that appointment.  At this time I do not have any varicose  veins.  My legs are huge now and I sure don't want to make them any bigger.

Thanks everybody.  I too could not find anything to support what he said.

LymphActivist

Kitty Dog:

You wrote: "Has anybody herd of have vein ablation for leg lymphedema. I have good blood flow and a good pulse in my legs and feet. This Dr. thinks he can help reduce some of the volume by doing vein ablation. He said it might not be much but he has had LE Patients to get an improvement. I am scared to death to try it but I have till Feb. to make up my mind. He thinks by veins are also being overloaded due to the overload of the lymphedema. The good news is that I have good blood flow so that is not the reason for my feet turning purple all the time. He gave it a name but of course I can't remember that one. I was essential told the same thing about my LE hand turning purple."

I am not a doctor, but I have some opinions as an informed lymphedema advocate that you might want your doctor to explain to you. 

I cannot understand how vein ablation would in any way reduce the volume of your leg. The excess fluid in the tissue of your leg(s), which we call lymphedema, is due to a partial failure to be removed by the lymphatic system. I can't see how overload of the lymphatic system can cause overload of the venous system. The venous system is a part of the circulatory system, and returns the arterial blood to the heart. When the doctor says you have "good flow" (s)he is referring to your arterial system. If you have purple feet that sounds like a problem with the venous system, not in any way related to the lymphatic system except that the lymphatic system may not be able to remove this leaked blood from the venous system. So you must stimulate your lymphatic system to encourage it to pick up and transport more fluid. The recognized way to reduce volume is manual lymph drainage if your lymphedema is still in stage 2, and sequential compression if stage 3. Then the continual wearing of compression stockings. The stockings will also help with the vericosities.

KittyDog

Okay this is what he called my problem Raynaud's disease.  

Ok DH is trying to explain it to me.  It will cut the volume of fluid as in blood fluid from being stuck in the legs but since I don't have an issue, I am not going to go there.  I am more afraid it will make them swell more.  My legs are a stage 2 or 3 I think.  I just know that they were worse than my arm.

Anonymous

KittyDog-

I just saw your post and wanted to respond but it's just based on my own experience. I have mild bilateral LE in my arms and had done extensive LE treatment and got it under control. All my symptoms went away completely for 8 months. Then I did the vein ablation in both legs for my varicose veins. Within a month LE symptoms were back and were much worse. I also began having swelling in my upper legs. I couldn't get the swelling under control and had to resume LE therapy once again. I'm not sure if the procedure was to blame but timing was suspect. My LE therapist said anytime you are cutting into skin, even injections, you can disturb lymphatic flow. I think you're smart to listen to your instincts. I wish now I'd done more research before having it done. 

carol57

Binney will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that our veins play an important role in absorbing the interstitial fluid that is the source of lymph, as ultimately lymph is transported through the venous system to be disposed of through kidneys, etc.   If you reduce vein transport capacity, I cannot imagine why that would not reduce the body's ability to process and dispose of lymph.

KittyDog

Thanks Kate and Carol.  You explained exactly what he said.  I am still not going to do it.  I am more afraid that cutting the leg will make me swell even more.  Between cuts and scraps from the dogs to the darn mosquito's I am more scared my luck will run out.