Emergency surgery and the sob dr that put an iv in my hand

purple32

It is interesting that people say "no harm done." There are issues of needless prolonged pain, dehydration, and the emotional aspects of being put through something like this. The emotional aspects are far worse, in my mind, because they can last much longer than physical pain.

I can only imagine the harm that has been done to your psyche cinnamon  and I do hope it is the 'least of it" -which is  not to say that is  a small thing.  It is not, and you need to be validated.

I am glad you are pursuing this matter.

Take Care!

cinnamonsmiles

UPDATE: I have been calm, cool and collected while speaking with hospital reps. I almost read from a script of questions so I stay on track.

I am now being stone-walled by the hospital. They are refusing to tell me WHY the right hand IV was ordered, WHO ordered it, and WHO put it in.

I can not find ANY record of it, other than in the nurse's notes. 

I have a question, anesthesiologists after surgery dictate a worded document of a post op report? I do not have one in the reports they gave me, and I was very specific that I wanted ALL reports and was very specific from who, what, etc.

I will be stopping by the medical records dept. when I see the DR. today and telling them I want to them to find me the records from the post op reports that show WHO ordered the IV in the right hand, WHY it was ordered, and WHO put it in, as well as documented times for each question and print those specific pages off for me.

Their stonewalling only makes me suspect they did something really wrong that they think they can get in  trouble for. 

Thanks for your help with this. I appreciate so much.

Binney4

Cinnamon, good for you for keeping your cool and keeping after them! Sounds like they're closing ranks, all right. Onward!
Binney

itsjustme10

Good luck.  Hope you get the results you're looking for.

hightide1

HIPAA allows you access to your records. It limits the cost that can be charged and they must provide the copies within 30 days.

They have the right to deny but under very limited circumstances and must provide a letter of denial within a specified time frame.

Been down this road with a military facility.



The govt. publication is heavy reading but recommend it. You are considered to be a medical consumer and first owner of your records.

HIPAA violations come with heavy fines and investigations are performed by the govt. no lawyers needed for this step.



Incomplete records are a violation.

kira66715

Cinnamon, I used to read hospital records when I worked for the rad oncs, and interestingly, the anesthesia people never had a document that I could access--just the surgeon's notes and pathology. Yet I'm certain they keep records of what they do. I would request the anesthesia record--it's interesting that they're not typically available in electronic medical records.

I spend a lot of time hunting up patient info and I've never seen a note from anesthesia....

Personally, I had "anesthesia awareness": I woke up in the middle of my lumpectomy and could hear/feel/smell everything, but couldn't move. Not fun at all. The surgeon was horrified and the next time I went for surgery, the anesthesiologist said "You had anesthesia awareness last time, we'll make sure that won't happen again"

Now, I've looked at my records and there was no anesthesia note included, but clearly one exists. How would the second doctor know?

cinnamonsmiles

Kira, I guess some information was left out from anesthesia regarding my surgery. I spoke with the head of Anesthesia and she was quite rude and pretty uneducated regarding LE. I guess I should have suspected that since sometimes our own surgeons lack LE awareness and knowledge. I did tell her that I think she and probably the staff need a little more information regarding LE.

The head of anesthesiiology told me that it was ok to put the IV in my hand because I was not showing symptoms. That it would have been different had I had worse LE. To which I gave information about Le basics and prevention. She also downplayed my mild LE. It appears had I had a worse case of LE, I would have been treated differently. I told her that that is a  terrible misconception. That Mild LE can get worse, and that I deserved as much prevention as someone with severe LE.

She was a piece of work, always double talking me. THe head of the OR was there as well adn they had me on speaker. The anest. head told me that the head of the OR had breast cancer (breaking HIPPA laws) and that bc issues are near and dear to her heart. I said, well, then she should be a champion for LE, mild to severe, or for those that choose to practice prevention that don't have it.

I realized I was getting nowhere with that woman. She would cut me off, and double talk, say something factually wrong, then when asked abuot it, would change her story.

Talking with the surgeon (and his boss in the room) went much better. He was very receptive (and even blushed) when I brought up things he could have done better, and I asked what could I do to help if I ever have this again.

I guess some records were omitted from my reports that SHOULD have been in my medical records. I have heard that that is actually a violation of some law. She said she was going to take who ever was supposed to record that to task. I say if there is a problem wtih an IV, there should be documentation SOMEWHERE.

The surgeon however, although I will never totally believe him 100% because there were no records of my foot IV going too slow and they had to make a fast decision on where to put an alternative IV. There is absolutely no record of this ANYWHERE in my medical records.I said I wanted facts in black and white. I want recorded values for the IV rate, but there is none. So without that evidence, I will forever doubt it. 

However, for my piece of mind, my pyschological health and that there is no documentation and never will be, I need to accept where things are at. 

Both the surgeon and I learned a lot by discussing the disaster of  my case.

I no longer consider him a pompous ass. Any surgeon that can sit there and let me point out his shortcomings without double talking and getting defensive is ok in my book.Hopefully he learne and will be making changes regarding informing patients and overall communication. He was surprised to hear that from a patient.

Waking up while in surgery had had to be terrifying and terrible. It sounds like something that happens on Criminal Minds or some horror show.

SO now I have to prepare an emergency room folder with papers documenting my LE, a letter stating that in an emergency the can start an IV in the left arm , but still no bps and that I do not want IVS, Needles or bps in the right arm because I have the most trouble wtih that one.

And I have to start being so lazy about wearing my medic alert bracelet of which I need two, because I can't fit all I want on one and get an LE rubbery bracelet thingy for the right arm.

I had all my questions and concerns written out adn at times, read right from the paper.

But most of all, I educated them on better ways to handle LE patients. The head of surgery now has two pamphlets I printed off the stepup-speakout.org website adn highly recommended it. She was very happy that I let her keep the copies. I am sure they will be doing some educating.

SOOOOO, the pompous ass status for the surgeon has now been downgraded.

Thank you to all that helped me with this matter. I can't tell you enough how grateful I am.You helped me get my thoguhts straight in a crisis and steer me in the right direction. Thank you.

Natlie38

Cinnamon, I am sorry that you had to endure all this. 

This is my worst fear. I just finished my bc treatment. I have to now undergo two surgeries- ovary/fallopian tube removal and prophylactic mastectomy. And I worry about my LE arm. 

I understand how you feel about the surgeon now. It is sad that there is such less awareness about Lymphedema. 

Take care of your arm and I am sure you have saved some future patients from this hospitals ignorance. 

purple32

 I have been calm, cool and collected while speaking with hospital reps...

Of course you have !
I think we all understand that this is a safe place for venting and that  you were in a terrible state of mind immediately following your surgery. Who wouldn't be ?

I'm glad this seems to have been resolved for you , even though you have some  doubt.  I understand this all too well as my own mother died at the age of 49, after medical mistakes.  This is why I encouraged you to get records asap, because I  found out the hard way that things can get " lost" . Of course, things are different now with electronic records- this happened over 30 yrs ago.

In any case, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for really educating all of us as to what can happen. An E.R. folder? /  I'll be making mine today!

(((hugs)))

Binney4

Cinnamon, I keep two alert bands attached to my insurance card with a rubber band. I figure any time I need my card I'll need the bands as well. They're far from being a guarantee of good care, but at least they might slow someone down. Neon pink alert bands available free from the ReidSleeve people here:
http://www.lymphedema.com/alertband.htm

If you have bilateral LE or bilateral risk, be sure to request two.

Beautiful work, Cinnamon! Think of the pain you've spared patients coming after you!
Binney

carol57

Cinnamon, you handled that meeting with steely grace.  Good for you! It is easy for anger to become bitterness and just left to simmer forever. By taking the time and marshalling the courage to confront the cast of folks who needed to know what happened and why their choices put you in danger, you have made a real difference in the care they will give going forward. I hope you don't feel bitter, because you should feel elated at the impact you made via that meeting.

hightide1

Became curious about what seemed to be missing notes and asked a friend who is a nurse anesthetist.



Here was her response:

"the only notes anes. providers make are usually on anes. events, related to surgery; i.e., "hypotension due to blood loss, RX successfully with Neo." or "surgery aborted due to...." If an event doesn't require our intervention or change in surgical plans, then it usually is not written down. In fact, in my experience, anesthesiologist write very little. CRNAs chart better notes, but since we are all litigious conscious, notes are very brief. "



Sounds like relocating an IV by choice wouldn't require a note. No missing records.

I think you took the highroad. But it is too bad arm measurements aren't recorded like vital signs. The differences pre and post surgery can be pretty hard for the naked eye to see.