I've been treating BC naturally

Blubelle

I've been treating BC naturally and have some questions. When I was diagnosed in March I went to get a second opinion at Stanford Hospital. They are thorough and did an MRI, that is when I went from what I thought would be a simple lumpectomey, etc.... to probable mastectomy. Cancer was found/suspected throughout the left breast and the right too. When I got this BAD news, I immediately called the Optimum Health Institute in San Diego and went for 3 weeks. I have struggled through these past 10 months on a multi-faceted regimine that has done a lot to reduce the lesions.

I've done great eliminating most of the areas of suspected cancer.  The main biopsied tumor is smaller (1.4 x 1.2 x 1.2 cm to 1.0 x .7 x .8 cm), most everything else is either gone, smaller and/or downgraded.

However, I have 1 spot that is slightly larger, but does not show on MRI, only ultrasound. Does anyone know about the difference between Ultrasound and MRI results?

If the MRI doesn't show anything, can the Ultrasound show cancer?

DocBabs

Blubelle, am I understanding you correctly, no treatment other than"natural"?Please don't be offended but if natural modalities could cure cancer don't you think that every single person would be flocking to a doctor for the treatment?I do think that natural or homeopathic medicine has a place in treatment but as an adjunct to conventional therapies , not in place of. Good luck with your future treatment.

dlb823

Both u/s and MRI can show lesions that are suspiscious for cancer, and an experienced radiologist can often predict if a suspiscious lesion is malignant.  But only a biopsy can confirm if the lesion is actually malignant.  MRI can pick up smaller suspiscious areas than u/s can.  

It does sound unusual for something to be visible on u/s, but not MRI.  I'm not sure if that would make it non concerning, since it isn't showing up on an MRI.  Hopefully, someone else will know for sure.   

Even though your bc is Grade 1, if you truly had IDC throughout both breasts, my concern would be that a 100% holistic approach that's basically reduced some of it over 10 mos. may not be aggressive enough to give you the best outcome.  I happen to be extremely pro holistic medicine, but I do worry about using it exclusively to treat invasive cancer.  Just an opinion you didn't solicit, but which I can't not share since you're here and asking for input.  But I'm also going to look up the facility you're using, because I am interested.       (((Hugs)))   Deanna

Blubelle

Hi Doc Babs and Deanna,

Thank you so much for your responses; particulary yours Deanna because it gave me some info on my pressing question.

Anyway, I am responding to both of your comments and concerns regarding the therapy I'm doing. Great comments on the fact that the cancer that is gone was not aggressive, probably true.

I want you to know that I began on the natural journey to primarily see what I could resolve with these methods. To not have to loose both of my breasts without strengthening my body as much as possible. To follow the science I know about organic soil remediation and do the research to be able to apply it to my own remediation/healing. That with all of these intentions it could and should work, but I am not ruling out surgery. Obviously, I would love to avoid it!!

The main tumor (L1) has shrunken, but only by 30%. This one, 1 of its 8 remaining satellites and the one on ultrasound (L2) are the only 3 tumors left. (L1) and (L2) have increased in size in the past 2.5 months. (L1) is still smaller than it was originally, but (L2) is bigger (it had shrunken a little bit shown in a scan in August). I am concerned! The lymph nodes looked a little funky, but I had just gotten over the flu....

The natural journey is just that, a journey and I have yet to see what is on the entire road. Now you know why I'm asking about the MRI vs. US. I'm hoping it's some benign fibroadenoma, that if its on US and not MRI, it could not possibly be cancer!!

However, I do strongly disagree that it is not possible to heal completely through natural measures. I am taking it all under advisement and if I need to change my direction I will most definitely do so. It's very, very hard to know what to do. I think it is all very tricky. I work to be connected to God's leading and honor my intuition and intellect.

Very many blessings to you both! Cate

Shirlann

Sadly, dear sister, there is no 2nd chance if you metastasize.  It IS impossible to heal naturally.  I have been on this site for 10 years and we have had several dear sisters try natural methods, only.  None have survived.

Get yourself as fast as you can to a breast clinic and pray you are not too late.  Do what they advise, THEN go with all your natural methods which have many benefits, unfortunately curing cancer is not one of them.

Gentle hugs, Shirlann

Blubelle

Thank you for your input! I take it all under advisement.

Big hug! Cate

the_roadshow

Hi Blubelle, I just wanted to say I admire your courage and fortitude to walk your own path when fear must be pulling you towards the well trodden one. I wish you all the luck in the world. I imagine you have the determination to stick to any prescribed nutritional plan. I'm doing a bit of both. Had surgery on Monday to remove tumour but have yet to see pathology report. I'm all raw and would be vegan if I weren't eating quark twice a day! The very best to you.

Blubelle

Dear Roadshow,

So nice to hear from you! (I know people who have healed from cancer naturally in my town). I do not think healing from cancer is easy. I think it is very, very, very, very hard. I think any treatment is hard.

It is also very, very, very, very hard to know what to do. Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement!

I wish I could explain so much more, but this forum is limited. So, we reach out in the limited ways that we can to help to support all of the choices we make and then help us to live and hopefully thrive with them.

Blessings Roadshow! Keep in touch and let me know how you are doing!

Big hug, Blubelle

the_roadshow

Hi Blubelle,

I'm in the UK and reading Bill Henderson's Cancer-Free, Your Guide to Gentle, Non-toxic Healing. I came across it when I read an interview with two people who had been healed of cancer naturally who both mentioned it had helped them (check out the reviews on Amazon). Got it yesterday and so far it makes for very interesting reading. In fact, reading is pretty much all I've done since I was diagnosed on 24th January. I have also visited the Wellness Warrior's website and she makes a compelling case for the Gerson Therapy. Definitely food for thought. Anyway, I'd love to hear what you're up to and how it's going. If you want to pm me my address is sian.delaney@hotmail.co.uk.  

Take care and big hugs,

Sian (the_roadshow)

Anonymous

There are alternative medicine forum threads, so you will find answers to many questions there and a place to talk there.

I have read enough and heard enough to believe that healing from cancer can be done, whether Stage I or IV.  I do think it is a forever show, gentle and forever.  For me, I don't know if I can pull it off, but I am hanging in there.  We just have to know when to throw something else in the mix, natural or conventional.  I also realize the women and men here both conventional and alternative have succumbed to either treatment or the cancer, there are no promises, but there is belief.

For those going conventional, godsped, no judgements at all.  Consider us a renegade research group, if you will and love us anyway.  Someone has to do it and this is where our heart is called. 

So Blubelle, hello.  Added you and Roadshow as friends too. 

Blubelle, poste this on antoher thread I noticed, so redundant.  But consider thermography for testing, like a colored film mammo w/o radiation. Generally out of pocket at $150 appx, worth the peace of mind and additional information as you make decisions and follow what you are doing now.

Want to say too, the lesions are not the only guage, cancer cells are everywhere.  So watching only those does not tell us if it is gaining on us or actually 'gone'.  The tumors can wall off and be 'dead' and remain in our body's like an old bird nest (per Dr. Gonzales, NY, NY in Outsmart Your Cancer)  So a tumor means it is there, a biopsy also does not tell all, the report could be on a benign section when there are active cells there too.  That is why we need multiple information sources and txs too.

Follow close, always change up treatments even if using one always.  Conventional or alternative.  Never think it is over, even when we are told NED, we keep on taking care to stay that way, not wait for the other boot to drop on our breasts.

Above all believe.  I am talking to myself now, because I get scared too.

send a pm anytime.

LOVEEssa

Beesie

Blubelle, I just read one of your other posts and now I'm really confused.  Have you have a biopsy on any of these masses?  It sounded from your other post that you are hoping that your masses are benign, but I don't know if that means all of them or if you had a biopsy confirmation of cancer on any of them. When you were first diagnosed (before you went to Stanford and had the MRI that showed the other masses), did you have a biopsy of that initial mass?  And if so, and if that mass was found to be breast cancer, is that one of the masses that is shrinking or is that one the same size or one of the one's that's increased in size?

Benign masses such as cysts and fibroadenomas, and other thickening that may be related to hormones, often shrink.  I wouldn't be surprised if some natural treatments could help with this.  But it's very important to separate how you are treating what may be benign masses from how you are treating breast cancer.  If you have both, it's important to not assume that a reduction in the size of the benign masses also means that the treatments are helping to reduce the breast cancer. 

To your question, if a MRI shows nothing, can an ultrasound show cancer?  Yes, because each imaging tool uses a different technology to "see" into the breast and therefore each may show something different.  But it's unlikely that an ultrasound would show cancer when an MRI doesn't. MRIs are the most sensitive of the imaging tools.  This is why MRIs tend to show more, and often present false positives (i.e. they show areas of concern that turn out to be benign).  Anything is possible though.  The only way to know for sure if you have cancer is with a biopsy.

msphil

hello and would like to say each has to do what is best for thrmbut I wanted the treatment tnat would give me the best survival rate, and went with L mast, chemo n rads and 5 yrs on Tamoxifen and thank GOD this year I will be a 19 yr Survivor, and oh all while making plans for my wedding. msphil(idc,stage2, 3 nodes involved, L mast, chemo and rads and 5 yrs on Tamoxifen) you are in my prayers as we all are

liv-

wishing you the best whichever way you or anybody opts to tackle this beast.

xx

camillegal

Liv that's what it is a beast and hides and divides--and we all make our own choices and even with all the meds. chemo. rads--it doesn't do the job--it can go to mets so IMHO I don't understand whayever u do is right or wrong--Just our own personal feelings.

Our cancer is like a hiding terrorist in our bodies --NED OR REMISSION never means u'r done so I wish u all luck in whatever u choose to do.

dlb823

The problem as I see it is is that each of our bc's is very unique and individual -- both in terms of probable causation and genetic and hormonal makeup.  What concerns me about totally holistic approaches to healing bc is that, from what I saw when I explored them prior to deciding on tx, is that holistic practicioners aren't educated in and don't take any of these individual differences (Her2, hormone responsiveness, or even Grade, for example) into account before assuring you they have the cure -- or at least they never asked me those questions.  From my personal experience, the ones I spoke to were very naive about the complexity of bc, believing they could cure me without surgery or chemo based on having "cured" a handful of others of some types of cancer.  

Another thing that's always concerned me about a 100% natural approach is that many bc survivors were extremely healthy -- including being vegans or vegetarians, and runners or similiar athletes -- when they were dx'd, which tells me the cure or prevention for everyone's bc probably doesn't lie in food and exercise alone, although I think those are both extremely important elements of preventing a recurrence.

This is not to say that I don't believe in a holistic lifestyle (I do!) and Eastern medicine  for many things, including complementary tx for bc.  I've sought out and used both integrative docs and naturopathic docs at various stages in my tx.  I just worry about possibly losing the window of opportunity to treat early stage bc while it's still early stage, and, quite honestly, Blubelle, the website for the Optimum Institute looks like a wonderful place for complementary care, but not the place I would solely partner with if my life was at risk. 

I really hate to poke holes in anyone's belief in their doctors or treatment plan, as I think belief is so important.  And I've actually known women with metastatic bc who did extremely well on holistic only txs for many years -- perhaps better than many who use conventional only, although, again, I haven't been privy to their individual stats, so my comment is observational and very general.  But, assuming what you are dealing with is early stage invasive bc, I think you might want to check back with Stanford (assuming you meant Stanford in Palo Alto) or a comparable institution (UCLA, UCSF, USC, etc.), at least for a second opinion on your progress to date.   Deanna

Blubelle

Hi Beesie,

Here's the medical part of the story: It was biopsied last March and found L1: IDC 12x12x14cm and DCIS. After an MRI at Stanford (in Palo Alto) I went from having L1 to having L1 - L4 and R1 - R3 BIRADS4 Suspicious, Biopsy. They wanted me to get biopsies on all of the newly imaged ones which I declined.

Because the cancer was so spread around I opted to start the journey by going to the Optimum Health Institute in San Diego. After 3 weeks there I took what I learned about Raw Food, Juicing and Wheatgrass home with me to continue. While I was at OHI the pain disappeared; I had been experiencing pain for at least the previous year which I didn't think much about until it was gone. (That pain comes back when I'm stressed or I am not following my program or eating something that's not on my program; it's a good wake-up call when I need it).

I was already study orgainc soil remediation and vermiculture. Basically how to heal toxic soil with organics. Therefore, it was easy to switch my studies to organic cancer therapies. What I discovered is that the science of healing soil could be applied to healing cancer. With science in mind, I studied all kinds of alternative therapies; including but not limited to Optimum Health Institute, Ann Wigmore, The Gerson Therapy, Hippocrates Intitute, Phoenix Tears, Johanna Budwig's "Oil Protein Diet", Rife, to name the main ones. I took all of the best aspects of these therapies that resonated with me and have dedicated myself for the past 10 months to using these and learning about new ones.

Stanford is running a research study on the effects of 10,000 iu's of Vitamin D. I'm taking this much. Iodoral 50mg. something I learned about on this website. I've tried different kinds of mushrooms, saw an iridologist and took her tinctures, am learning about spiritual healing and emotional healing. The Emotion Code is amazing for clearing out trapped emotions something I've been doing since July an highly recommend it to everyone.

The results so far: MRI in mid-January show R1 - R3 downgraded to BIRADS 3 Probably Benign, follow-up in 1 year with MRI/US. L3 - L4 are gone. L1 is now only 10x7x8cm gradually enhancing mass. The 5.5cm suggestive of at least multifocal, possibly multi-centric disease is down to only (1) satallite measuring 1.6mm.

All the masses had rapid wash-in and progressive delayed enhancement, but now what is left gradually enhancing focus. Also, "There is overall decreased background enhancement compared with the previous MRI". If any of you are interested in the exact details....

Here are size breakdowns and improvements overtime:

L1:

March '12 MRI: L1 - 12x12x14 cm irregular mass with spiculated magins and rapid wash-in and progressive delayed enhancement. 5.5cm Eight surrounding satellite masses with rapid wash-in and prgressive delayed enhancement.

January '13 MRI: L1 - 10x7x8 cm gradually enhancing mass. The previously described 8 small satellite masses have shown almost near complete resolution with only 1 satellite lesion remaining measuring 1.6 mm.

L2:

March '12 US: L2 - (Only seen on Ultrasound). 7x5x3 mm ovoid hypoechoic mass with a few irregular margins.

October '12 US: L2 - (Only seen on Ultrasound). 6x2x5 mm ovoid hypoechoic mass.

January '13 US: L2 - (Only seen on Ultrasound). 7x3x7 mm ovoid hypoechoic mass. (This one is the only one that is bigger. It was smaller in October. I went off of my program for the most part during November and December. I think this is reflected in the results. L1 was smaller on October US too).

L3:

March '12 MRI: L3 - clumped non-mass enhancement 1.5x1 cm rapid wah-in and progressive delayed kinetic enhancement curve.

January '13 MRI: L3 - No MRI correlate to this lesion.

L4:

March '12 MRI: L4 - 6 mm mass with rapid wash-in and progressive delayed enhancement.

January '13 MRI: L4 - No signigicant residual enhancement at the site of the previously decribed L4 lesion.

R1:

March '12 MRI: R1 - 1.5 cm minimal enhancement, compatible with benign masses. (MRI says probably benign, US says biopsy).

March '12 US: R1 - 22x11x20 cm ovoid hypoechoic militlobulated mass with a few irregular margins. Suspicious, core needle biopsy.

January '13 MRI: R1 - Stable benign appearing mass. Follow-up US in one year. (They did not redo the US in Jan., but must not have thought the biopsying requests from March's report were still recommended).

R2:

March '12 MRI: R2 - 1.5 cm minimal enhancement, compatible with benign masses. (MRI says probably benign, US says biopsy).

March '12 US: R2 - 20x8x16 cm ovoid hypoechoic militlobulated mass with a few irregular margins. (Suspicious, Recommend US guided core needle biopsy).

January '13 MRI: R2 - Stable benign appearing mass. (Recommend Follow-up US in one year).

R3:

March '12 MRI: R3 - 5 mm mass with rapid wash-in and progressive delayed enhancement. (Recommend MRI-guided biopsy).

March '12

January '13 MRI: R3 - 4 mm stable, more benign appearing, gradually enhancing focus. (Recommend MRI in one year).

January '13 US: Right Breast: There are no areas of suspicious mass or non-mass enhancement to suggest invasive malignancy.

Lymph Nodes:

No gross lymphadenopathy

What we believe in is very, very powerful. Look into a book by Bruce Lipton, called "The Biology of Belief". I can shy away from sharing my experience or I can share without concern that I am challenging anyone's beliefs.

There is some indication that flax oil and flax seed are anti-estrogenic. I have constant hot flashes while I'm sticking to the Budwig Diet part of my program. When I was away travelling and working in the fall and not eating the flax, the hot flashes greatly reduced in number. My doc at Stanford is the one who brought up this possibility, though he does not know.

My question is still about the Ultrasound findings with regard to L2 and the Lymph Nodes. I am getting a second radiologist to read the images before I submit to getting biopsies.

You can see for yourself that everything is resolving. This does not mean that I'm sitting on my laurels, quite the contrary. I am looking into new things. I just added Meyer's Cocktail IV treatments with a Glutithione push at the end. I'm interested in learning about Apricot Kernals....

I think a change up at this point will be helpful to manage the last of this. If I get down to the end of the initial tumor I may just have it out.

I continue to work deeply on healing myself emotionally, spiritually and physically. I count on God to guide me each moment in every way and I work on being aware of this guidance as hard as I do on what I ingest.

Beautiful Blessings and Light to you!!!

Blubelle

bkinney

Good for you, Blubelle! I totally agree with you about belief. Mind body is a reality. The trick is to make it work for you, not against. I think far more people will themselves into disease than out of it, so you are pretty special.

If you do end up under the knife, that's okay too. I think it's best to keep an open mind, and take advantage of every option that feels right. Healing yourself is hard work, and there are no guarantees. If a little surgery puts you over the top, it's all good.

I wish I could help you out with some info about ultrasounds. I've only had mammograms and a biopsy myself, so I put all my energy into understanding what those might mean.

Becky

Blubelle

Are you still on this site?

Love, Blubelle

Bounce

Dear Blubell

Some of the people who answered your original post are still active and will probably pop in soon.

I read this thread with great interest. I hope you are doing well. Please update us how you are doing.

Best wishes.

Italychick

Blubelle, I am very interested in how you are doing and what progress you have made.

I was too scared not to do chemo, but after chemo I am heading to an integrative practitioner to embark on a repair regimen, and would love any details about what you are doing. So far I have been recommended vitamin c IV, turmeric, and several other substances to use. Polyd I think is another one

Momine

Bluebelle, as far as I can understand from the list of imaging, you never had biopsies. When did you have surgery and how did they decide where/what to operate? In other words, did you have any biopsy prior to surgery?