2013 Running Thread

LuvLuLu

Nice going FairyDogmother! Don't let "them" tell you you can't! "They" also told me I wouldn't be able to do crunches. They lied . . .

FairyDogMother

LuvLuLu- Thank you!

goldlining

FairyDogMother - thumbs up for defiance! You go!

mcgis, my LE is on the trunk, not the arms, for now, anyway, and I put on compression to sleep, and a good no-jiggle bra for running. Some on this forum do run in the sleeve - the LE clinic said to wear compression during exercise, so that seems to be done. I have compression tights on my swelly legs (thanks, caesarian!) and the sports bra seems to be enough when I run. There are lots of people presumably without LE who wear compression sleeves or sleeves for comfort e.g., for warmth when running in a tank top, and knee socks for leg compression and more efficient blood return. The compression sleeve will blend right in!

eulabt

Well, I am finally starting to get back into running. Very slowly. This stress fracture has gotten the best of me. I am not used to not working out. Even with my BMX, I was walking within a couple of weeks!

Firstcall- can you add the More/Fitness Half Marathon 4/13/14 and the TCS NYC Marathon on11/2/14. I am going to run NYC even if it kills me. 2014 is my year:)

alaskamama

Fairydog: If you feel able to run through chemo, DO IT! I did, to the extent I felt able, and I experienced a direct correlation between my exercise intensity and my white blood counts, not to mention my mental health. I asked around and found no medical reason why running is contraindicated; what I realized is most docs and nurses assume you'll feel too wiped out and are generally, how shall I put it, WIMPY.

Run, girl, run!

FairyDogMother

Thank you for all the encouragement. Well today’s 1-mile run turn into a 2 mile walk. My neuropathy is getting worst each day. I can barely move from the pain in my left knee down to my toes. My left foot feels like a rock. I have been googling if running/walking makes it worst no answers. I figured I”m in pain either way, so might as well do some sort of exercise. I have tried ibuprofen and that isn’t helping. I am afraid to take Tylenol since my liver is high and I might have delay Chemo#2 next week. I thought about getting on the bike and seeing if that helps.

RunFree16

FairyDogMother, how worrisome and uncomfortable! I hope someone on this thread will have some answers for you. Maybe someone else would, like call Susan G. Komen or the American Cancer Society? Surely it's a question others have faced, and someone must have done research on it. I hope your neuropathy will improve fast from here.

Quite on a whim, I ran a local 5K today, my first race since being diagnosed. Cold, windy, and an unpleasantly hilly course. On the plus side, a lot of friends were there. I ran with some of them who took some breaks, so between that and the hills, my time was crazy slow, but I didn't care. And I liked the pancake breakfast afterward. I won an age group award but that was due to the race officials mistaking my number for someone else's. I know because my time on my Garmin was 8 minutes slower than my official time! Also it wasn't actually 5K, more like 2.86. But it was fun, and it felt good to get back into running with other people. They were giving away gift certificates to Road ID and I got one! I've been kind of thinking I ought to get one of those--I do run with a wrist wallet with my name in it--but they seem so overpriced. However, free is a good price. And my Fitbit was lost this week but someone found it, and it flashed my name so I got it back! I really missed that little thing. It felt good to do a race. One of my friends today said, perhaps lightly, that she'd do a half-marathon with me this summer. I am going to try to hold her to it. It would be great for me to have a goal race about that far out, like May or June. I'll let you know if/when I make it official.

sweetandspecial

Runfree - I'm in awe of 'Quite on a whim I ran a local 5K today...'.  I would love to be in such shape that I could run a 5k on a whim without planning and training for weeks/months.  Way to go!

RunFree16

Thank you! I am in shape these days to run a 5k on a whim, if I don't care about my time, but nothing longer. When I was training for my marathon, I could have run a half-marathon on a whim. Fun times. I'd like to get back there, or most of the way.

goldlining

Oh I read Runfree's post and thought, I could totally go for that. My outlook is, for anyone who could do a brisk 45 minute round of errands at the mall, an impromptu 5K would only be an issue if it had to be faster than a certain time. I laughed about the imposter age group award. It was gracious to accept it! :-)

I have run 3km since my half almost a month ago. I have been so busy (have worked 12+ hour days for 2+ weeks). Running is one of the things I have had to sacrifice but I am paying for it. Not just the grumpy legs that want to go out but I don't have a clear head. I've been misplacing things all over. Having highs and lows. My last exam is Weds, and I will drop the papers off for machine scoring and head for the airport with my shoes in my carry-on, so hope to hit the sidewalks in sunny Florida and reset my brain.

RunFree16

Ooooooh goldlining jealous that your semester ends so soon and jealous of your Florida trip!

I was surprised to get the age group award, but I thought it was just remotely possible. It was a small race, about 90 people, many of whom were kids and walkers. Only later, after a lot of people had left, did I find the posted results and realize how far off they were. The officials were in over their heads in a lot of ways, kept realizing they'd given the wrong awards and calling people back to return them, even kids! They also forgot several, like they gave 2 for girls and 3 for boys in some age groups (and not because there weren't enough girls--I knew one who got her award only after the ceremony), and so on. Quite a mess, and they knew it. So I wasn't very surprised, but there was nothing I could do about it. I think I'll send the organizers a gentle email about my results though.

Rdrunner

fairygodmother.. re neuropathy.. i had to stop running during chemo because the bottoms of my feet got so sore, swam and walked instead. I did start taking a b complex vitamin though which is supposed to help. let your doc know because you do not want permanent issues

alaskamama

Fairdog and others: I did two things to ward off neuropathy during taxol, both with the blessing of my medical oncologist:

-iced fingers and toes during infusions (This helps reduce damage to nail beds. I figured it might logically reduce neuropathy risk; the link has not be studied but I figured it can't hurt.)

-took 10g - 30g of L-glutamine per day (my oncologist said 30g; the friend who told me about it, who happens to be a physician who had breast cancer, said 10g -- so naturally I took 20g most days!)

Unfortunately neither of these things works retroactively, but if you're still getting taxol it's not too late to start. Here are some credible links to info on glutamine:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11350883 (NIH abstract, "Reduction of paclitaxel-induced peripheral neuropathy with glutamine")

http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/7/5/1192.full

Good luck and please help spread the word that neuropathy risk CAN be reduced. It's so frustrating to me that doctors ply us with heavy and often dangerous drugs to combat temporary side effects like nausea but tell us nothing of the simple and safe ways to mitigate the risk of long-term debilitating side effects like neuropathy.

End of rant!

Wishing you all well...I'm out the door now for a brisk walk

FairyDogMother

Thank you for the advice about the neuropathy. I get chemo#2 tomorrow. I'm going to run before we take off. I will ask MO about the L-glutamine. The MO told me no to the B6 and B12 stuff, but I"m going roque.

goldlining

Thought of you all when I read this news article on exercise helping with tolerance of BC treatments. Has probably run in other broadcasts and papers as it's a wire service article based on a journal publication.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/exercise-helps-women-tolerate-side-effects-of-breast-cancer-drugs-study-1.1586916

corpor

Hi all-

I've been running for about 10 years. My longest was a half marathon a few years ago, but I've always tried to keep mileage at 10 miles a week or above. Until October, when I turned into a human pincushion. I had three biopsies (at two different times) followed by an excisional biopsy and finally a DMX with TE 10 days ago. I simply was too sore to run, and probably only got in 4 or 5 runs total in a two month period.

I'm itching to run, but I'm not sure how that will work with the tissue expanders, etc. Can someone give me some suggestions where to start????? I've read no actual "running" for 6 weeks, which makes sense, but other than that I'm not sure what to do. And what in the world do you do about sports bras? I had been a small C cup, and these poor foobs are about a decent A right now. I start the fills next week.

Thank you!

Corpor

Leigh74

I finished my 4th TC treatment 11/21. I have been able to run throughout but the 4th really threw me for a loop. My friend is getting taxol after 4 AC and they told her to try B6 for nueropathy so curious why your MO said no to B6? I just bought some. I have had neuropathy and myopathy lately. I run 5 miles and it feels like I ran 10. It seems my muscles have been tight and like they may cramp ever since my 4th treatment. It has only been three weeks but I have been shocked at how I feel.

sweetandspecial

corpor - once you're healed up and PS gives you the green light for working out you should be able to run your heart out if you want to and do anything else you were doing before.  Work up to things slowly and carefully, though.  Your chest has had major trauma and it may take some time to get back to your previous level of strength and fitness and flexibility.  I started working out 2 months post BMX with all restrictions lifted, but I had to work on strength and range of motion/flexibility.  My PS has no reservations about upper body work or running or anything once things have healed for at least 6-8 weeks.  Some PSs say only light upper body work and some ladies here have been told no targeted upper body work ever again.  

Sports bra?  Each of us has their own faves, I guess.  At first I bought a few that hooked in the front because there was no way I could put one on over my head but I eventually started wearing over the head ones.  The TEs don't really move or bounce, they're pretty firmly anchored by the pecs, but you should still have good firm support, especially if jumping or running.  There is a 'bras 101' thread you could check out and get some feedback to your questions there too.

You'll be more and more pleased about size with each fill.  They'll stay very, very firm but once you start getting some size you'll feel more like 'you' again.

sandpiper1

Nice to see so many hanging in there despite the colder weather (for those of us in the winter season).

Just a quick check in as I have neglected my exercising/running since Turkey Day. I needed to give my ankle a little extra time to heal and I have been working a ton too.

28F here in Southwestern PA, with a very light pretty snowfall. I ran 3 miles and did a 60sec plank. Trying to do a plank challenge for this month, but yikes they are killer!!

I think many here have offered excellent advice about returning to or maintaining activity .

Warm thoughts and wishes for all

xoxoxoxoxo

Piper

Rdrunner

Well I woke up to 30cm of snow this morning.. was supposed to be doing my long run today.. headed to gym and did it on treadmill.. I earned a strip.... im still sane after running 30km on a treadmill.. nearly went mad lol!.

on the upper body thing above.. i had a bilateral mastectomy , my preventative side in September.. i have been doing upper body weight since november with no problems at all. my surgeon had no problems with me doing that. But I am not with recontruction so no TE 's to deal with or anything like that.

RunFree16

Rdrunner, that's some major treadmill time! I can hardly imagine doing that. Wasn't it terribly boring? Did you at least have tunes or something to watch on a screen?

Rdrunner

terrible boring and then some.. yeah was listening to tunes, eye candy wasnt bad lol. downloaded a few podcasts of favourite comedian and and an audio book incase I need to do it again, i was on there 2 hrs 55 not bad for 19mile training run.

LuvLuLu

Rdrunner - OUCH! Sounds positvely painful.

Then again, I'm planning a 5 am run tomorrow morning and we have icy roads and single digits. At least it'll only be about 6 miles, NOT 19!!!!!

We are all kinda crazy, I guess . . .

RunFree16

That is swift for a training run! You're a lot faster than I am. Good point about audiobooks. Have you listened to any that were really gripping enough to make the time go by faster?

NatsFan

Just an FYI for any of you who have had any nodes removed - you are at an increased risk for lymphedema. Even having a single node removed can put you at increased risk for LE. Unfortunately many surgeons are not well-versed in lymphedema, and provide little to no education about risk-reduction measures you should take, especially about resuming upper body workouts. Sadly, there are many women with LE who post regularly on the LE section here on BCO who had just a SNB and were assured by their surgeons that they didn't need to take any precautions. These women resumed their upper body workouts or otherwise observed few if any LE risk-reduction measures, and ended up with LE, and now will have it for the rest of their lives.

LE can show up within a few weeks after surgery, but another time when it tends to show up is after surgeries and treatment are completed - a time when we're beginning to resume our workouts. Most LE will show up within 3 years of completing active treatment, but unfortunately it's a lifelong risk. LE can affect not only the arm, but the breast and trunk as well. There is some evidence that with the growing use of lumpectomy and SNB, more breast LE is being found because the SNB biopsy removes the main channel by which lymphatic fluid moves out of the breast area, leading to LE when that fluid gets trapped.

This is not to say that you can never do upper body work - you can. However, starting off with a very light load and increasing reps and weights slowly is the way to go. You should also avoid work such as pushups or yoga poses like downward dog where you are supporting bodyweight on your arms and shoulders, at least until several months goes by and you build up upper body strength again. The LE section here on BCO is excellent, as is the Step Up Speak Out website, which contains info about all things LE. For information on working into a safe smart workout program after node remove, here's info from Step Up Speak Out:

http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Handout%20doc%20for%20SUSO-040113.pdf

If you take exercise classes or work with a personal trainer, here's a handout you can print out and give to them:

http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Trainer%20doc%20for%20SUSO-040113.pdf

The good news is that most women will never develop LE, but since the precautions are easy to take, why not do everything you can to keep from being one of the unlucky ones who gets LE?

RunFree16

NatsFan, thank you so much for this. It's very timely, since I was planning to restart a weightlifting program literally today or tomorrow. No plank challenge for me, I guess! It's quite true that there's a lack of education out there. I went to a yoga class last summer and told the instructor about my BC and she did not recommend any accommodations. My PT, who's had some LE training although not a certification (best I could do in my rural area), had me using resistance bands, which the pages you linked to said were not advisable. When I asked my surgeon, who's quite eminent and brilliant, what I could and couldn't do with my treatment arm, he said, "Just use it normally." What if "normally" means working as a construction worker or mover or farmer?? Even with just one node removed, I've found that little cuts and bug bites take a weirdly long time to heal. I love Nautilus and quite like free weights, and I'm eager to get stronger, but I'll do it super slowly and cautiously.

Rdrunner

A recent study this not to be accurate and that women can lift weights after lymph node removal. I will try to find and post it. I think its all relative in terms of how fit you were going into treatment and surgery etc. I had mastectomy without reconstruction so i dont know if this made a difference in terms of risk for me. I had 4 lymph nodes removed, but i have had two previous lymph node surgical biopsies 8 and 10 years ago removing a total of 4 or 6 cant remember. Anyway my docs said im very low risk, im very lean also so may be factor.

RunFree16

Rdrunner, I heard about that new research too, from my more experienced PT that I had at first. But the website NatsFan linked doesn't really say you can't lift weights, only that you have to start light and progress very slowly. I think that's still good advice. I'd be glad to see your link if you can find it.

Rdrunner

http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/results/summary/2009/lymphedema0909

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/13/weight.lifting.breast.cancer/index.html?_s=PM:HEALTH

I should be able to access the study.. New England Journal of Medicine August 2013 but i wont be able to post link as most likely it isnt free, i cant post the full study due to copy right issues but if i find it i can pm it

I think the key is slow progression.. but thats just common sense for everyone not just people with lymphadema.

NatsFan

Absolutely you can lift weights after node removal - the idea that you can't has long been discredited. But, as others have said, slow progression is the key, and that means a lot slower than if you were not at risk. One of the women who wrote the exercise handout I referenced went through the PAL protocol that is described in the articles you posted. She was carefully monitored, started off with ridiculously low weights and progressed only very gradually. But at this point she now can lift quite heavy weights without triggering an LE flare. Here's a link on the Step Up Speak Out site to an interview with the lead researcher on that weight lifting study at Pennsylvania in 2009 that those articles reference. In this interview, she explains more fully the results of that study and addresses some of the ways the study's results have been misinterpreted by non-medical media:

http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Weightlifting%20and%20Lymphedema.htm

The reason that resistance bands are not advisable, especially at first, is that you need to control your progression. With machines and free weights, you know exactly the amount of stress and weight you're putting on those upper body muscles, and you can gauge your progress. But resistance bands can vary widely in the exact amount of stress you're putting on the muscles, depending on where you happen to hold it that day and how far you happen to stretch it. A couple of inches either way can result in a very different stress load, so you can inadvertently put inconsistent amounts of stress on your body from session to session, rather than engaging in a slow well-monitored progression. Once you develop a basic level of upper body strength, then resistance bands can possibly be introduced back into your regimen, but you need to be hyper-aware of how your arms, chest, and trunk are reacting and you need to back off if needed.

The bottom line is that it's important to build that upper body strength back. If you don't have good upper body strength, then suddenly have to shovel a lot of snow or lug groceries, pick up a grandchild, or do heavy lifting in the garden, you may well trigger a flare. But if you've developed a good basic level of upper body strength, then you can go about your daily life with a margin of safety that allows you to do those everyday things with far less risk of triggering an LE flare.

I'm also doing that plank challenge - a bunch of us over on the Let's Post Our Daily Exercise thread are joining in. At this point I've worked up to a 90 second plank!