arthritis treatments for LE?

Brooklyn1234

Hi,

Just wondering if anybody has tried/considered a couple of things. They sell full finger compression gloves for arthritis (23-33 pressure) at places like walmart for only $20. Unfortunately the sizing is only S,M,L,XL so I understand they're not the same as a fitted glove. But I've been having trouble finding a glove that's comfortable and full fingered. At that price I could maybe experiment....

And, I've been reading about these anti-inflammatory patches used for arthritis treatment. Also they make topical gel in Switzerland according to Wikipedia. Drug is ketoprofen. I have to admit when I take advil during menstruation, my arm seems much better. So I'm wondering about either these, or has anyone had success just taking an over the counter anti-inflammatory? I take the active chemical in tumeric and am not sure if it's making a difference. But I'm also not sure that you can isolate just one aspect of a food like that and get the same results as when people eat it as part of a traditional diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16274258

carol57

Brooklyn, very interesting questions for which I have no answers, but I did pause when you said there's a Swiss gel made of ketoprophen.  That's a drug that Dr. Stanley Rockson has tested on mice with induced LE, and he found that there were some benefits.  But I think (just think; don't know) that the drug given to the mice was not topical.  Also, ketoprophen used to be sold over the counter in the US as a pain reliever, but it was taken off the market as OTC.  I cannot recall the issue, but it raises a cautionary note to me.  Vlnrph, who is in this forum from time to time, might have some insights on gel vs. oral.  Perhaps she'll notice this and comment.

Dr. Paula Stewart, who has given presentations at the NLN about pharmaceuticals and LE, has included ibuprophen (so Advil) on lists of drugs that cause edema.  Ever since reading that, I've chosen to use Tylenol instead.

But it all feels like we're wandering in the dark.  Good questions you ask!  

Linda-n3

Brooklyn, you might ask a PT with LE specialization about the glove. It sure sounds like an option in theory, but a good PT would be in better position to give you an answer. As far as the nsaids, the way they cause edema is through fluid retention, and it is overall body edema, not the localized lymphedema. And most people don't get edema with nsaids unless they have some renal problems or hypertension or sensitivity, so if you have taken ibuprofen in the past without problems, it seems unlikely you would have problems now, but this is just how I reason things out. Check with your PCP and/or MO to see if you could try ibuprofen for the pain - it might be OK and effective. Best wishes!

carol57

Linda, Thank You for clarifying the relationship between nsaids and edema.  Much appreciated!

purple32

Just wondering if anybody has tried/considered a couple of things. They sell full finger compression gloves for arthritis (23-33 pressure) at places like walmart for only $20.

Brooklyn

I am currently wearing an arthritis glove  , as I wait for my fitter, found at amazon (IMAK)  I personally like it.  It offers only light compression, so if you need more, it may not help.

Thanks for the info on ketoprofen.  Sounds intriguing...hoping to hear more.

vlnrph

The NSAID patch we have available in the US is Flector, the topical gel using the same active ingredient (diclofenac) is called Voltaren which is the old brand name for the oral agent now sold generically. Can't imagine how either one of these would benefit our condition directly since they are indicated for joint pain.

Systemic absorption does occur to a limited extent so some caution is suggested if you have GI issues. Ibuprofen and kin are notorious for contributing to stomach upset, even bleeding/ulcers. At least be sure to take them with food. I think Orudis=ketoprofen probably went off the market due to poor sales: Advil, Motrin & Aleve provide some stiff competition.

I take a little aspirin as a low dose anti-inflammatory as well as to keep my platelets from aggregating too enthusiastically. Because of heart disease in family history along with elevated cholesterol, it's a way to protect myself from myocardial infarction. Too much, such as a regular 325mg tablet daily, makes me bruise easily. 

I have also looked at arthritis gloves but figured they might be hot and may not be designed with much gradient compression.

My fingers get puffy in a gauntlet but I will resort to one when my hand starts sweating at orchestra rehearsal and I need to keep playing! Some musicians have similar gear they wear for support, especially pianists... 

Nitocris

Hi,

Brooklyn, I read an article about drugs and LE in the October-December 2012 issue of the NLN magazine LymphLink.  

For more information, you can read it on the NLN web site (second article down the page)

http://www.lymphnet.org/newsletter/articles.htm  - "Drugs and Lymphoedema: Those which may cause oedema or make lymphoedema worse"

I am a bit confused about the  calcium channel blockers.  Can anybody elaborate on this?

vlnrph

Hauskaa Joulua Nitocris (I'm half Finn). Sorry to have missed your Skype with the other gals who attended the LE summit in Ohio last August. Two of them are featured in the current NLN journal as patient advocate participants from the big meeting in Dallas!

Anyway, think of the calcium channel blockers as vasodilators and you can see how they contribute to edema, especially of the lower extremities, which are also subject to the forces of gravity. At least we can elevate our arms.

Since these drugs decrease peripheral resistance, they are good at lowering blood pressure but at the same time allow fluid to leak out into surrounding tissues. Result = swollen legs/ankles. If this happens, there are antihypertensives in other classes that may be employed - ARBs, ACE inhibitors, diuretics, etc. It's nice to have alternatives.

purple32

My BP is already too low and now that I have stopped the ADD'L salt due to LE , I can feel it has bottomed out.  (This is an issue I have been dealing with for 15 yrs prior to all this )

I finally decided today that I am going to take some GSE due to my terrible circulation.  This may in fact lower the BP even more which is a concern, but between the cancer and all my other conditions this has been nothing but a catch 22 since I was DX , and my feet are like 2 ice blocks at all times.  It is a scary feeling between that and the totally wiped out blahs after I am on my feet for just a  bit..  (I'm seeing a cardio dr this week)  I figure the GSE just might help wioth the ER PR pos as well since I cant take tamox. and my bones are too bad for arimidex ( catch 22 again)

You would *think * vasoconstriction would be good in my case, but again, it is risky:
http://www.cvpharmacology.com/vasoconstrictor/vasoconstrictor.htm

I am really starting to feel like my whole life is a BIG Catch 22 lately ! I am even hesitant to increase my exercise as it is so ' good ' for BP....I dont have much energy lately anyhow.

Does anyone have any good/ bad info on GSE in relation to LE?

I would appreciate any current insights.

Many thanks!

BeckySharp

vlnrph- Hi!  Carol and I had a great time at NLN.  Hope you enjoyed the LymphLink issue.  Wish you, Tina, and Diane could have been there as we were in Ohio.  Are you violin playing these days?