Pain along inside of arm on BC side...LE? Other?

MaxineO

Hi ladies, I figured I would go to the experts...



I have had pain up the inside of my arm for the past few days. It feels kind of like cording (which I had on the other arm after chemo), but is that possible? I had a MX and axillary dissection on the side with the pain and have not had LE previously and was told i was "low risk".



The pain goes pretty much from my armpit to my wrist. Today, I noticed some redness on the inside of my elbow, which is tender. It hurts to extend my arm. Ideas?



I am scheduled to see my MO tomorrow and figured I would ask her about it, but I am hoping for some peace of mind from my BC sisters.

Binney4

Maxine, it sure does sound like cording. The redness is concerning; if that gets worse tonight, or if there's new swelling, itchiness, fever, flu-like feelings, or increasing pain, don't wait until morning to see the MO but get it checked out at the ER tonight. Cellulitis (infection) can spread rapidly and become systemic, so you need to act fast with that. Here's information about cellulitis:
http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Emergencies_and_Medical_Care_lymphedema.htm

And here's information about cording:
http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Cording_and_Axillary_Web_Syndrome.htm

Do keep us posted and let us know what you discover.
Hugs,
Binney

Karina121293

Maxine, exactly same thing happened to me couple of weeks ago. I have no LE so far. But my arm, mastectomy side, from armpit to my hand started hurting . There was like cording in the inner part and a bit of swelling between my thumb and index finger and very tender to touch. I was going to make an appointment, but after a few days it went away, both the pain and swelling. I don't know, it it was an early symptom of LE and I wonder if I had overused my arm, or lifted heavy bags? I would advise you to wait a bit more, then show a specialist. But more than likely it will go away on its own. Let us know, how you feeling.

chrissilini

Sounds like cording to me as well. However, my bs told me, if I remember right, that I wouldn't get it again and I was low risk for LE. I only had a snb and was told LE wasn't common with that. But after reding through posts I'm thinking it's more common than they tell us.



My cording issues were back in Jan/Feb and I did a few weeks of physical therapy that took care of it. I was also fitted for a sleeve that I never wore, until now. I'm not quite sure what's going on but my snb arm just doesn't feel right. I don't feel any pain but it feels heavy and even a bit swollen. Visually I don't see a difference. So, I started wearing my sleeve when I workout and hope it passes. I have an appointment with my bs in Jan but if it gets worse I will definitely be calling sooner.



I'd be concerned about the redness too. Definitely get it checked out. Interesting how so many are told they are low risk for LE yet still get it. Maybe they need to rethink that.

MaxineO

Thanks ladies. I saw the MO today, and she thinks its lymph edema. She wants me to wear my sleeve and see an LE specialist. She also wants me to have an ultrasound to rule out swollen lymph nodes . So my worry rate has gone into overdrive.



Anyone know, does LE cause redness and pain in the arm? Gonna need to read up on this now.



You're right, chrissillini, it would be interesting to know how many 'low risk' patients develop LE. Thanks again for your input.

vlnrph

I had a similar sensation last year when my LE started, a day after resuming orchestra rehearsals (I'm a violinist). The repetitive motion of my bow arm set it off. The basilic vein runs from the wrist to axilla - the area was uncomfortable but not red. I figure it was irritated due to the caustic nature of lymph.

Maxine & chrissi, I hope you have hand compression such as a gauntlet. My first glove was too light and let fluid move into the hand so I got sausage fingers. Did you have measurements taken, especially as a base line prior to surgery?

Don't worry too much about the ultrasound. Your doctor is wise to investigate but you could just think of it as gathering more information in order to provide a point of reference for the future. 

Binney4

Maxine, I agree with vln about not worrying too much about the ultrasound. The diagnosis of LE isn't as straightforward as we would all imagine, and your doctor is right to go about it by ruling out other causes of swelling.

Keep us posted! Be well,
Binney

purple32

. I only had a snb and was told LE wasn't common with that.

That's all I had too. 2 nodes out. (Not even radiation)

I dont like to worry anyone or certainly not scare, and I am NO expert, but posts that tell ppl to wait and see are not prudent when it comes to pain and REDNESS.

Do see a DR or else go to ER in case of cellulitis.

We all need to be careful of that .

I am hoping your situation is not serious.  Each case is different.

Please let us know how you make out.

Take Care!

Binney4

Karina, hello!

Your experience does sound like an early sign of LE. Lymphedema comes in stages, just like breast cancer does. Early signs that come and go like yours did can indicate very early stage LE. Recent research shows us that treating it early makes it much easier to manage and much less likely to progress. It's well worth looking for an evaluation and treatment now. A well-trained lymphedema therapist can teach you a gentle lymph massage, fit you for compression garments to wear while exercising or traveling, and keep track of baseline measurements for future reference.

I'm not familiar with LE resources in Armenia. Closest I come is Turkey (Istanbul and Izmir) and Iran (Isfahan and Tehran). All of them were trained by Klose Training, which is a recognized therapist school. Not exactly handy! Then again, if you called or emailed them, they might be able to steer you to resources closer to home. Here's their contact information in case you'd like to try:

Istanbul:
Sansin Tuzun, Prof., MD, CLT
Istanbul University, Cerrahpasa School of Med, PM & R Dept.,  Tel: 90-532-5680497

Izmir:
Sibel Eyigor, Associate Professor, MD, CLT
Ege University , Physical Therapy and Rehabilitation Dept,  Tel: +902323903687

Isfahan:
Roya Ansari, MD, CLT
Isfahan University of Medical Science, Breast Cancer Research Center,  Tel: 00983112365964

Tehran:
Mandana Ebrahimi, MD, MPH, CLT
Shahpar Haghighat, MD, CLT
Zahra Sheikhimobarakeh, MD, CLT
Iranian Center for Breast Cancer, Breast Cancer Research Group,  Tel: 98-21-66952040

Hoping you can find great help! Please do let us know what you discover.
Gentle hugs,
Binney

fredntan

Binney,

A few weeks ago i developed cording to my left arm(thats side with lymph nodes intact) it was after blood draw then repeated bp to that arm. No redness. I had cording in jan during taxol.

Is cording related to LE?

The pain is getting better, and am do

ing the little massages my Therapist taught me.



Is it okay to have blood drawn from my good arm. Its just had simple mastectomy. i dont think I will allow both in same visit. I guess i shouldnt have bps from either arm anymore. The cording stops where the bp cuff was.

Karina121293

Binney, thank you for advice and contacts. The hospital I was treated at has LE specialists. I think I am going to make an appointment. I know a lady who had mastectomy 6 years ago, but her LE does't go further than a bit of swelling now and then when she overworks in her garden. Is it possible to have a mild LE, without getting worse in time??

When it comes to blood draw and BP, it is a big no-no at my hospital, even when the patients are years out of surgery.

Stay well everyone!! 

Binney4

Karina, I'm jealous! Your resources are awesome!

It is possible for the swelling of LE to be limited and not make itself known except occasionally, while the disease is still progressing within the tissues. There are several processes involved in LE, among them an abnormal fat deposition beneath the skin and an accumulation of fibrotic tissue as a result of the inflammatory aspects of LE. As these progress (without treatment) they can result in skin changes, limitations of strength and range of motion, possible leakage of caustic lymph fluid through the pores, and sometimes a kind of cancer called lymphangiosarcoma. LE does not progress rapidly, so without pain or constant swelling it can be easy to ignore it, but definitely best not to.

Do keep us posted!

Gentle hugs,
Binney

Binney4

fredntan, the relationship between cording and LE is not clearly defined. Cording is generally thrombosed lymph vessels, so there's some potential damage there which may be related to triggering LE. (How's that for vague!) Another one of those "more research needed" areas, for sure. There also seems to be good reason to believe that "popping" the cords (as some therapists are prone to do, because it produces instant relief) is probably not a good idea. Better to massage it gently, and if the cords pop on their own that's considered less of an issue. Why, I do not know.

As someone with bilateral lymphedema despite having only a single lymph node removed on my cancer side, and no lymph nodes purposely removed on the prophylactic side, I'm a strong believer in leaving both arms alone where blood pressure, blood draws and IVs are concerned. (Mine was triggered on one side by a blood pressure reading--sigh!)

I sure hope the pain resolves quickly for you. Let us know how you're doing!
Be well,
Binney

fredntan

I have appt next wed with my pt person. My sleeves are on.



Thanks

purple32

" I'm a strong believer in leaving both arms alone where blood pressure, blood draws and IVs are concerned.'

Makes sense , but then, where do we get those draws , BPs etc ...taken from?!

and btw, I saw on another thread that ibuprophen is contraindicated despite the inflammation factor. How about aspirin?  Seems like a daily baby aspirin might be helpful as a blood thinner /to help circulation  (??)

It is all so confusing!

cinnamonsmiles

Can cording feel like a pulled muscle or a charlie horse? I get that a lot in one of my arms since breast cancer. I am still so lost in the LE/cording stuff. Thanks.