Diet/ what about dairy?

purple32

Hi all

I have osteopenia , and with the latest news about CA supplements, I need to go to food to get enough Ca for my bones (and  take D).

I love CHOBANI Greek yogurt, but dont drink milk or use many other dairy prodicts.  Being ER PR + , I am concerned about the yogurt.

Is almond milk  a better choice ?
Does anyone have good CA alternativers in food that are non dairy?

Many thanks!

Hipline

Almond milk has 50% more calcium than regular milk and no chance of hormones or lactose intolerance. Greek yogurt is better than regular because much of the sugar is removed. I love it too and use it as sour cream. I just stay away from milk and full fat cheese.

dlb823

purple, what do you mean by "the latest news about CA supplements?"  My ND has me on a calcium citrite+magnesium+D supplement, PLUS a mineral compound that you take at a different time of day to enhance calcium absorption.  (I'm also osteopenic.)

Greek yogurt is about the only dairy product I eat on a regular basis.  Other than that, I occasionally eat some feta or fresh mozzerella or a bit of other imported cheese, and sometimes I drink Kefir.  I also eat broccoli, almonds, flax, and other foods high in calcium, but I just don't think you can get enough without a supplement.

I use organic soy milk for protein drinks, etc.  Almond milk is good, too.  I just prefer the soy.       Deanna

Hipline

I would avoid soy, especially if you're ER+. There's too much controversy on its estrogenic tendencies.

purple32

Thx hipline. I will definitely try the almond milk.  No, I  am ' afraid of' soy (and just about everything else since this darn BC   dx!)

Deanna , I guess this was known to some degree before , but about 3 weeks ago, it was on national news that CA. supplements  increased heart attacks by over 80%.   I was taking a double dose.  I happened to go to my endo dr., the bext day and I mentioned that I was very concerned and she said :" Drs have supsected this for years,but with your bones you really need it, so just cut back to 1 pill."  Even still, it is worrisome, plus I felt much better about taking the 2.  ( but not anymore)

I am sure you could google  CA supplements and heart attack risk  to see for yourself.

On another note, I know that you take DIM. Is this in addition to tammi or w/out ? I am on so many threads, I have forgotten!
I am seriously looking into DIM (as an alternative) because I have very poor circulation, and I am concerned about blood clots with tamox.

Can you give me some add'l  info on the DIM a you take and if it carries simialr risks to tamoxifen ?
I can deal with the meno stuff, but blood clots , strokes and the like are a turnoff ( to say the least!  : )

Either PM or posting here would be fine.

THX for any reply.

Shayne

wow - never heard that about CA

My naturopath told me no dairy - except occasional goat cheese.

If youve watched the docu Forks Over Knives - they did quite a study on cancer and dairy with rats that was v surprising! 

mumito

First time I heard about a dairy food cancer connection.I will try and watch that documentary.

Shayne

The study was on rats.....but showed a rise and fall when dairy was added and taken away from their diet.  I love cheese, but Ive cut waaaaaaay back on it ----almost nothing now.   

wanted to add - the film swings far to the left of promoting a non meat/non dairy diet, to the point of losing a lot of people with their opinions.  But the part on dairy was hard to ignore.   

purple32

I think the dairy is only a concern for ER PR positives.

Momine

I can't get the dairy thing straight. It seems like the studies go both ways and that if you take it all together, it is really inconclusive.



It is apparently better to stick with low-fat foods in general if you are ER+, so that would nix cheese and other high-fat dairy. But I can't see any good reason why low-fat yogurt and kefir, for example, should be harmful. Does anyone know what the specific harm is supposed to be with dairy?

Shayne

dairy is acid forming in the body......which cancer and other disease love to thrive in.  If you eat dairy - make sure its at least organic, free of hormones.

purple32

can't get the dairy thing straight...

Hormones, I believe.

Same reason you need to watch certain meats. Some chickens for example are hormone free...ok.

To the best of my knowledge , I think it is all about hormones.  I might do a google on dairy and hormones or hormones in dairy. That might help.

Just got back...first link I came up with on a 10 second search :
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/12.07/11-dairy.html

This is a good comparison on the milks. Actually, almond milk has very little CA. but they fortify it ! Read labels.

http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/healthy-eating/calcium-levels-in-milk-vs-almond-rice-and-soy-milk.html

Soooo, we now have to ask ourselves  ... *IF* we are are concerned about the CA supplement linked to greatly incr . heart issues  - is almond milk ( or Ca. fortified OJ)  not just another beverage with " added CA", like say, water plus CA supplement, thereby carrying the same potential risks? I would think so!  ????

dogsandjogs

Thanks for the links Purple!  I had no ideas about how often cows were milked and also while they were pregnant. Wow! 

I became a vegan about 6 months ago and have noticed I do not have nasal congestion anymore. This really bothered me before - I had headaches and just felt stuffed up all the time. So I am sure the dairy products were the culprits.  I also love almond milk; tastes much better than the non-fat cows' milk I used to drink.

purple32

YW dog and jog

but pls read my edited addendum.  Thing sure do get complicated !

Momine

Purple, I would tend to agree about CA-fortified foods.



Thanks for the links.



I have seen the stuff about hormones in commercial milk, but if you stick to goat milk or organic milk, that would eliminate the hormone problem.



Sticking to low-fat is probably also a good idea.



Shayne, I have seen stuff about acid-forming foods. I remember it was very "in" in the 80s. I have yet to find anything on the subject that I find convincing, truth be told. But maybe I have been looking in the wrong places.

dogsandjogs

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2012/05/23/calcium-supplements-heart.html

dlb823

purple, I've been reading up on the study conclusion re. heart problems, and what I'm gathering is that suddenly adding a lot of calcium via calcium only supplements to your diet is the suspected problem:

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20110419/calcium-supplements-may-increase-heart-risk

http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-edge-newspaper-2011/apr-15a.html

I am also personally very leery of most broad population studies re. supplements because most of the time the supplements used are cheap, chemical ones, and not natural food based ones.  And the main problem with that is, when you make a singular nutrient in a test tube, you're not getting all the surrounding micronutrients that are found with it in nature and needed to process it. 

As far as the problems with dairy products, you have only to Google "dairy bad for us" or something similar to find all sorts of articles on why drinking cow's milk and products made from it -- even "hormone free" milk -- probably isn't the healthiest choice. I'll have to find and post a link to a very recent article I thought was really good.  I can't remember where I saw it at the moment, but in the meantime, this older letter from a now-retired California doctor is very thorough re. all sorts of concerns:   http://www.notmilk.com/kradjian.html 

Personally, since my bc dx, and especially in the last few months due to another health concern (DH), we've gone from using 2 gallon jugs of milk a week down to just 1 qt.  I still use a touch of it in my decaf coffee, but that's about it.  I don't try to be a purist about it, but I feel better about the nutrition in soy and almond milk.  Also, UCLA says soy is fine (actually good for us) in moderation, but I realize it's a very personal thing and we each have to do what we feel is right for our bodies.      Deanna

purple32

Thx Deanna.

I also was wondering if you could give me some specifics about DIM and/or grapeseed extract.

( I see they have done clinical trials with Activin grapeseed extract)

I did PM you.

Thanks!

dlb823

I just PM'd you, purple.

Hipline

I would like to know more about the DIM and grape seed extract too!

purple32

I will be looking more extensively into the grapeseed extract.  They are currently doing clinical trials with ACTIVIN  with IH636,  This really interests me.

Thanks Deanna!

peggy_j

Does almond milk contain ANY calcium? The brand I buy, Pacific Natural Foods Organic (at Trader's Joes) has 0 calcium. Do other brands have more? My rice milk (Trader Joes Organic) has 30% of the daily recommended amount of calcium in a 1 cup serving.

I agree with the comments about the questionable practices in the dairy industry. I rarely eat dairy (due to my milk allergy) but when I do try to make sure it's organic. 

Hipline

I buy the Silk Almond Vanilla, unsweetened and it claims to have 45% of the RDA for calcium.  I gues that would be about 450mg per serving.  

purple32

I got the Silk Almond yesterday,  and it does say that it has 50% more CA. than milk.  However, even though it does not mention it, I truly beieve it is *FORTIFIED* with Calcium.  IF that's the case, I just don't know if it's a lot different than drinking water plus calcium supplement.

dogsandjogs

I think that's right Purple.  Almonds don't have calcium in them I don't think so it has to be added.

purple32

Yep, I saw it somewhere on the internet that the almond milk is fortified, dogs.  Made sense.

Hipline

Almonds actually do have calcium, 75.45mg per ounce.  I am sourcing Marilyn Diamond, the Fit for Life author.

purple32

Intersting, hipline.  In any case, I did read online that the almond milk actually has less CA than cows milk, but is fortified.

peggy_j

Jun 25, 2012 04:52 PM purple32 wrote:

I got he Silk Almond yesterday, and it does say that it has 50% more CA. than milk. However, even though it does not mention it, I truly beieve it is *FORTIFIED* with Calcium. IF that's the case, I just don't know if it's a lot different than dring water plus calcium supplement.

Good point. The sense I got from that "new" study is that a large dose of calcium all at once can be a problem. Previously, I'd heard that our bodies can only absorb so much calcium at one time, so there was no sense taking more than XXX amount (500 mg?) hence, the recommendation to take half a supplement 2x/day.

Thanks Deanna for posting your links. Due to my milk allergy, I've been talking calcium supplements since I was a teenager (!) so I wondered if I had created a real problem. Looking forward to reading that info. 

sam52

The problem with cows milk (and sheep and goats too) is that it contains IGF-1 ,which is to make their young grow......IGF-1 is insulin-like growth factor, which has been shown in vitro to make tumor cells grow too.......  

Anonymous

Deanna, thanks for the links. I have questions, reservations about the study.

This was the "takeaway" for me: "The researchers suspect that the sudden change in blood calcium levels when starting a supplement is responsible for the increased risk, meaning that women who already had calcium in their blood due to personal supplement use may have been immune to this abrupt spike."

Think what Peggy j said about consumption of the calcium/magnesium supplements is important - ALL the ones I've ever taken insist on taking throughout the day with food.  Also think the QUALITY of the calcium is important, really worth spending the money on a good brand, or one you know about, most health food stores have people who really know the supplements they sell.