I look for other flat chested women. A rant.

pip57

My scars are a bit curvy.  No excess skin at all.  My surgeon also knew that I would not be pursuing recon.

Anonymous

Outfield, you have that exactly right. There definitely is a controversy over this. Surgeons determined they were sort of doing node transfers when they did DIEP recon, as the portion of skin and fat in the lower abdominal area used to create a breast can contain a few lymph nodes. So the nodes go along for the ride and may help improve existing LE. However, the long scar across the lower ab can block the flow of lymph from the trunk to the inguinal nodes and create truncal LE in the area above the scar. I attended a presentation by Dr. Massey, who does both autologous tissue transfers as well as node transfers, and she is my source of info about the nodes existing in the fat and skin transferred to create a breast. However, she did not mention that truncal LE can be caused by the DIEP scar, but there are women on the LE forum who have developed swelling/LE above their ab scar. Carol57 comes to mind, as I remember her saying she has to do MLD to get the lymph to go around the scar so it can reach the inguinals. Others have mentioned, but I cannot recall names. Theoretically, if both Ideas are correct, with a DIEP surgery one could get relief from LE in the compromised axilla area, only to develop truncal LE due to the scar created by transferring the fat and skin to the breast area. I don't think the surgeons who do autologous tissue recon talk about this much. But your suggestion to ask Binney or Kira about this would be spot on. I seem to remember Binney talking about it.




When I attended the LE Summit in Columbus OH this summer, one of the presenters talked about how they are trying to standardize the data gathered to track when women first get LE so we can develop more accurate info and a better picture about the occurrence of LE over time. I asked the speaker if they were also tracking if patients reconstructed and what type of recon they had. I am curious about whether LE has risen as more women seem to be opting for recon, but that data hasn't been gathered. If they collected that data over time and could compare against a country where recon is either less accessible or women don't opt for as often, I wonder what the statistics might show. I actually think implants are more likely to cause LE because the implant takes up space in the chest cavity, as does the capsule/scar tissue that forms around it. Both have the potential to block or restrict lymph flow. And the incision scars can have the same effect on the breast area as does the DIEP scar on the abdomen.

pip57

It seems as all these procedures to alter our bodies have ramifications.  

happyraccoon

MT--I would like to add one more reason (hard to do, after all of this excellent, powerful dialog, ladies!!!!!)  WAY COOL

When I let it be known that I had bc, many women in my small community came "out of the closet" to let me know they had it too.  I'm grateful they did that!!!  But I am also infuriated that I didn't know about their bc at all because they hid it.  I didn't know a thing about their process, their pain, their prospects. 

You have been writing about gender issues and expectations, particularly that many surgeons (including mine) have not seen many flatties.  Reminds me somewhat of people in the 1930s getting used to seeing a woman in pants!  Thank goodness for the brave souls who wore them even though it was still uncommon!  To some degree, despite the obvious comfort and utility of wearing pants, it was also a political statement about feminine freedoms.

Happiness for me means being open about how common breast cancer is.  I want to be one of the increasing number of flatties creating new awareness beyond the pink parades.  Politically, it's an environamental statement about healthy, sustainable living.  Hide it, and I become a walking lie in support of the earth-plundering status quo. 

I'm not sure how you could condense that down into sound bites... I really tried.  Please use your writing craft to edit if you think it is useful.  Thank you for being so brave to step out in this very public, powerful way!

And thank you all for creating this amazing thread.  It's an honor to read.

pip57

Excellent point.  I too was shocked by some of my parents friends who had bc and nobody ever knew.  No wonder we talk about "awareness".  Maybe our realistic take on this disease will wake people up.  Then we can spend the money on treatments, not awareness.

Linda-n3

Pip, an interesting comment about awareness.  Some folks earlier had said you have to be pretty sheltered to not know about breast cancer, there is all the fuss in the news about getting mammograms & how they save lives, and lots of stories about heroic women who set the bar really high for most of us mere mortals in recovering from breast cancer treatment.  But that's where awareness ends - people are not aware of the lives AFTER diagnosis, they may be aware of treatment options (lumpectomy, mastectomy, chemo, hormones, targeted therapy) but not about their long-term effects, about reconstruction but not about both the immediate and long-term issues, etc. etc.  Yes, people know about breast cancer.  Pink ribbons are everywhere.  "Real Men Wear Pink" proclaimed a large advertising billboard on the highway into the city today.  I would love to see a billboard with a flatty on it this month!

pip57

And the billboard should show the woman being proud of her flatness, not looking sad so as to invoke sympathy in the viewer. 

happyraccoon

YAY!!!  i wanted to know how to say it in fewer words and then it came up this morning:

"We are only as sick as our secrets."  -Anonymous

THAT's what I'd like to live by.  Happy!!  Honest!!!  Resourceful!!    Sure is easier when I'm not covering myself up with false images to try and live up to. 

As for sheltered, yes.  Unfortunately, with bc, women hide it.  So unless you are in the intimate circle of a survivor, you don't know it happens to people you know.  I am the first person in my family to have bc.  None of us expected it or even wondered about it as a possibility.   

I eat well, and am a competitive athlete.  Risk factors don't make sense in my case, unless you consider non-point-source pollution.  If that's so, I like people wondering on a personal level, day by day at the pta or the gym or at work that a bc survivor might be in the room. 

If more women did that, toxic productions would slow down!  BC legislation comes from increased public concern and interest.  Imagine if we had just ONE national go-without-your foobs day.  Didn't I read that thought earlier on this thread?  

Anyway, the soap box.  Sorry.  Love you guys and am really proud of all of us, whatever our choices and motives.  We're here!!   

Linda-n3

I probably overlooked this in previous posts, but how many of you had rads after BMX?  I know that with a second local/regional recurrence that my BS and MO are going to push me - my chest already has enough pain with the BMX scars, very sensitive.... am terrified.  Any help out there????  Thanks.

pip57

I had 8 fields of radiation.  Being a stage III they suspect your other nodes may be effected to so you need to take care of the little critters one way or another.  I think radiation is easier to manage when they don't have to go through breast tissue that can be burned and painful.

pamelahope

Add me to the flat list!!!! I had a BMX on Monday and went to a sushi restaurant flat as a pancake, wearing a button down shirt with a surgical bra on underneath with drains, a pink scarf, and a smile. Two ladies smiled at me and no one even looked funny at me. I saw a commercial for an ahh bra on the tv and I felt free. Liberated. I said to my husband that it was sort of sad that women think they need breasts to get a man or feel loved. That seems so yesterday.

I expect my feelings may fluctuate as I see women wearing tank tops and bikinis but as of now I have no plans to buy a prothesis ever.

Pam

pamelahope

Add me to the flat list!!!! I had a BMX on Monday and went to a sushi restaurant flat as a pancake, wearing a button down shirt with a surgical bra on underneath with drains, a pink scarf, and a smile. Two ladies smiled at me and no one even looked funny at me. I saw a commercial for an ahh bra on the tv and I felt free. Liberated. I said to my husband that it was sort of sad that women think they need breasts to get a man or feel loved. That seems so yesterday.

I expect my feelings may fluctuate as I see women wearing tank tops and bikinis but as of now I have no plans to buy a prothesis ever.

Pam

pamelahope

Add me to the flat list!!!! I had a BMX on Monday and went to a sushi restaurant flat as a pancake, wearing a button down shirt with a surgical bra on underneath with drains, a pink scarf, and a smile. Two ladies smiled at me and no one even looked funny at me. I saw a commercial for an ahh bra on the tv and I felt free. Liberated. I said to my husband that it was sort of sad that women think they need breasts to get a man or feel loved. That seems so yesterday.

I expect my feelings may fluctuate as I see women wearing tank tops and bikinis but as of now I have no plans to buy a prothesis ever.

I am going to do radiation and terrified to answer the last poster.

Pam

pamelahope

Add me to the flat list!!!! I had a BMX on Monday and went to a sushi restaurant flat as a pancake, wearing a button down shirt with a surgical bra on underneath with drains, a pink scarf, and a smile. Two ladies smiled at me and no one even looked funny at me. I saw a commercial for an ahh bra on the tv and I felt free. Liberated. I said to my husband that it was sort of sad that women think they need breasts to get a man or feel loved. That seems so yesterday.

I expect my feelings may fluctuate as I see women wearing tank tops and bikinis but as of now I have no plans to buy a prothesis ever.

I am going to do radiation and terrified to answer the last poster.

Pam

Outfield

Linda, I had radiation (I was also diagnosed at stage III).  I burned, but my radiation oncologist seemed pleased to be working with a flat body.  He said it was ideal.  Some of the burning is inevitable because they're trying to damage tissue, it's that simple.  Depending on what they want to damage and your shape, the field may fall off nearer or further from the skin.  I burned on my upper back, too, which freaked me out, but it's because I was so thin that the supraclavicular field didn't have a chance to fall off in a fat layer.  

The burns heal, but I won't lie and say radiation didn't cause me any problems.  Just more prices to pay.  I sure hope you don't have a recurrence.  

Raccoon, I love that quote.  I loved your first post too, even if it was a lot of words.   

pamelahope

Outfield,

What problems did radiation cause? I am thin too.

Pam

pamelahope

Outfield,

What problems did radiation cause? I am thin too.

Pam

Linda-n3

Pip, I sent you a PM.  I am also very thin (some people tell me I am tiny - funny, I feel about 5'10 and muscular, but actually am 5'0" weighing in around 90-95 and have lost most of my muscle over the past 2 years!).  Pam, maybe we can support each other as needed through this (if I go through with it).  Outfield, how long ago was your rads?  How long did it take for you to feel better?  I know the supraclavicular nodes are of concern to my team, and that's where I am most fearful of lung damage.  Thanks for the info.  I am still in the info-gathering stage - no decisions until after wide excision and final path reports.  Geez, I am getting good at this waiting game!! Am off to watch some mindless comedies on DVD (not much on TV despite countless cable channels!).

Outfield

Linda and Pam, I'll PM you.  Don't want to hijack this wonderful thread with radiation woes.

Momine

Pamela, welcome! FWIW, I am thin and not reconstructed, and I had minimal problems from the rads. I did end up with a couple of nasty burns by the end of it, but used those gel bandages and that cleared it up quickly.

MT1

I had rads, and it was fairly straight forward. My body didn't react too poorly. I got a burn, whose color is still slowly fading. I am thin 5'2" 120 pounds. 

Pamelahope, I love the 'That was so yesterday' comment. 

pip57

Linda, I got your email and responded.

I too had the small burn in the back.  That was weird.  

Pamela, good for you!!  That is what we need.  More women to flaunt what is normal for so many of us out there.  I just can't believe you were smiling....with drains in?  I hated those things.  I was a big baby until they were removed.  

Having sushi tonight.  Mmmmm.... 

Galsal

I've decided to go no further in pursuing reconstruction.  The aborted Diep was enough between a VERY long surgery (over 15 hours), taking some muscle, more ribs involved than expected, two times was given blood, mesh was installed, and the multiple events of blood clots with the arteries and veins.  Enough is enough.  I've no wish to pursue the process of implants.

Once we hit the new year, I'll get on the surgery schedule to remove the excess skin that was saved to facilitate reconstruction.  It was a major help for my decision when I was fitted for prosethics.  Not that I will wear them all the time but I saw that I was okay with a small when desired or no bust.  While I'd been a DD/DDD, to see myself with a B after seven months of nothing was freaky and seemd like I had Ds on my chest.  So I went with an A, just enough to have something there for special times although I see myself going without most of the time.

pip57

We can be any size we want now!

Galsal

You said it Pip! 

pamelahope

I have a question. You know how women worry about radiation ruining their implants well will radiation ruin my lovely new flat look. That is once I get rid of the drains, staples, and scars lighten?!!

Pam

pamelahope

I have a question. You know how women worry about radiation ruining their implants well will radiation ruin my lovely new flat look. That is once I get rid of the drains, staples, and scars lighten?!!

Pam

Outfield

I have some very faint permanent darkening, but it's really only visible to me because my eyes are what, twelve inches? away from it.  I don't see it in the mirror from what would be a very friendly social distance.  Radiation (I only received it on my IDC side) made the scars themselves look different at first, but now they're the same.  

The scar that truly doesn't match is from my port, probably because I started chemo a couple days later so it didn't have the best healing environment.    

MT1

pamelahope, I don't think radiation will affect your flatness. I had rads on the right side (the affected side), I had bilateral mastectomy and the right side is more healed than the left because rads clears the way for healing to occur. My left side is a red line with a slight raised bit a scar tissue. The left side is starting to turn white and I bet it will take this year to settle and begin to look like the right.

I am one year and 3 months out from surgery and one year 1 month out from rads. I still have a dark area where the radiation burned my right side but with each month that gets lighter too.

Check out BreastFree.org for pictures. 

mumito

Flat look will not be ruined but your ribcage can get damaged.I am 4 years out and still have painful ribcage joints on the radiated side.Maybe I recieved too many treatments and with a Bolus pad.I got 3rd dregree burns. Best of luck with your treatments. I hope i didn't scare you but it is better to know these things before you go in.((hugs))