I look for other flat chested women. A rant.

Suladog

Lisa,

No....looking it up right now!!

glennie19

And there's a Halloween costume to think about!!!

ksusan

8.5 months post-surgery, 5 months post-chemo, 2.5 months post-radiation:

feelingfeline

Go Susan. Here's to the day you'll be saying 10 years and 8.5 months post surgery!

Love your kitty avatar!

OncoWarrior

ksusan, they did a good job on your surgery. Scars healing nicely!

Yesterday I passed my 3 year anniversary of becoming Flat and Fabulous. Well, actually, I was Fabulous before going Flat. Here is my song, thanks to the BeeGees: Come, Sisters, sing along with me.

My "Stayin' Alive" Song 2015

"Three years ago they tried to save my life
On a cold steel table with a surgeon's knife.
B M X, P T S D,
Gastroparesis came in for free.

Lots of tired; Sometimes wired;
Feel my Strongness be inspired.
Working Prayers and Gratitude.
See my Perky Attitude.

Call me OncoWarrior, that's who I am
I'm stayin' alive, stayin' alive.
Beatin' down the cancer one day at a time
I'm stayin' alive, stayin' alive.
Ah - ha - ha - I'm stayin' alive, stayin' alive;
Ah - ha - ha - I'm stayin' ali----i-----iii-------ive!"

Good job, everyone.

ksusan

Thank you. It's easy for me to see all the lumps and bumps, but I think it's a pretty good surgical job.

Wren44

OncoWarrior, Great song. Incidentially, that's the rhythm for CPR. They discovered everyone knew the song and the rhythm and it was just right.

Ksusan, I look a lot like that on my mx side minus the radiation tan. I think your scars are fine.

Wren44

I just had a thought. Do you suppose they push reconstruction to avoid people realizing how common it is and to keep from scaring women who haven't had BC yet? DH had open heart surgery (5 bypasses) and has a huge scar on his chest and smaller ones on his legs where they took the veins. We can walk down a beach together. Women glance at him and don't show any sign of noticing. Men turn white.

feelingfeline

Congratulations Onco and I'm visualising the huge party at your 10th ani of stayin'alive too! XX

annecordelia

Hi everyone.  It's now 10 weeks since my bmx. No real problems and I have been going flat without giving  other people a single thought. I can't imagine ever wearing a bra again...However,  I still have a lot of swelling and hard lumps and the skin around the scars is puckering. I did tell my surgeon that I would never want a reconstruction and not to leave anything behind but I'm not sure he's taken that on board.  I know how lucky I am to have been told that they got it all and I need no further treatment,  but I am rather disappointed with the appearance of what's left. Do you think that it will settle down eventually and really be 'flat'? Or will I just have to get used to being lumpy and bumpy?Regards to you all 

kathindc

Anne, I'm almost 3 1/2 years post BMX. On each of my incision sites, I have about 3 inches of keloid scars. Used Maderma but that didn't do anything. I find by just rubbing the area firmly (and I still do it) the keloids are getting smaller. My BS had me wear a sports bra for a couple of months with padding in it to keep pressure on the area which was to keep the swelling down. I did it day and night and it worked. I am concave on one side and the other side is hard to describe plus on one side the inframammary fold is very noticeable. Each of us is different in how our bodies are. I've seen very flat chests and I've seen some that make mine look good. Talk to your BS regarding the lumpy and bumpy. That's how I found out why I look the way I do.

annecordelia

Thankyou Kath :-) I guess it is still early days. A few weeks ago it did all seem to be settling before coming back lumpier than ever! I have started with the massaging and hopefully that will have a positive effect. 

A silly question: if I've had a dmx, can I assume that at least some lymph nodes were checked out? It was never mentioned. ..

Thankyou as ever - this is such a great support. .. 

rainnyc

Annecordelia, did you get a copy of the pathology report? Mine goes into detail about lymph nodes. It's not a silly question at all!

kathindc

Anne, talk to your BS. I would definitely request a copy of your surgical and pathology reports from the hospital. I went to my hospital's web site and downloaded the form. Some of the things I wanted weren't there so I added them. There is a charge for it but well worth it. Sorry you had to join us but you've come to a good place. Lots of help and info on the various threads.

Edited to add: Oh, I hear you about not wearing a bra! Don't miss it at all

ksusan

Liberation from the bra is the perk for me!

alaskamama

Truly, this question of why "they push reconstruction" has vexed me ... I wrote about it on my blog ("Breasts, real and othterwise") before I had my mastectomy:

http://alaskamamaruns.blogspot.com/2013/09/breasts...

I think it's a combination of (1) American zeal for procedures, which is largely a product of our messed-up physical reimbursement system (i.e., surgery nets more money than leaving things well enough alone) and (2) feminists and cancer activists who lobbied for insurance coverage of reconstruction as some kind of equality measure.

As I note in my blog, I think the former is a more potent force than the latter - clearly the breast cancer reconstruction business is a huge boon to plastic surgeons, and let's not kid ourselves about their lobbying power. Others ("support" people, oncologists, etc.) think they're comforting women by rushing to reassure us we can get reconstruction - not realizing the message they are sending is, "You're not good enough unless you fix it."

I love this thread. It gave me the confidence to block my ears to the subtle and unsubtle messages about reconstruction. Two years out from my mastectomy, I am comfortable in my body and grateful not to have undergone any more procedures and risks and recoveries than necessary.

ksusan

I feel fortunate that my surgeon posed reconstruction as an option in a neutral manner, asked clarifying but not leading questions, then affirmed my decision not to do it. He checked again before surgery but made no attempt to persuade me to do it. I know other patients of his who opted for reconstruction, and he was equally supportive of their decision.

magdalene51

In my cancer support group, we have a couple of younger women who chose recon so their little ones wouldn't have to deal with the loss of mom's boobs. I can empathize with that, but on the other hand, it would certainly be a teaching moment about real life, wouldn't it? As for the feminists wanting equality, wouldn't you think that they would be more inclined to go flat, since boobs are a focus of objectification? Interesting thought.

ksusan

I'm a feminist and find some of these comments puzzling and seemingly inaccurate. As with the bra issue or the shaving issue or the abortion issue or the birth control issue, the point is that women should have choices. That insurance covers recon is IMHO a good and important thing. That some medical offices may push it, whether as a money-maker or from the physician's anxiety and ideas about femininity, the point is that we have a choice and it's going to get paid for. I think that's great. Not sure why blame accrues to feminists in this equation. Should women have to pay for reconstruction?

BarredOwl

Hi:

Ksusan's experience is my idea of the ideal situation.

I chose no reconstruction, but I understand that for others it may be the best choice. I thought I felt some subtle pressure to have reconstruction, but my husband (who was present at the discussions) thought it was more an effort to encourage me to fully investigate the option, and make an informed decision. Once made, my surgeon respected my decision.

In the past year, in a Wall Street Journal article, one surgeon noted that such surgeries are indeed more lucrative for hospitals/doctors. But I do not think such incentives are necessarily a main or sole driver, and ethical providers would not be influenced by such incentives. Part of the "pressure" may reflect overcompensation for past deficiencies, or a swing of the pendulum a little too far in the opposite direction. At least in the past, some studies found that reconstruction was not raised as an option for some women who would have qualified for it and would have elected it had they been informed. Thus, they were deprived of information regarding possible surgical options, and a chance at fully informed decision making. That is poor medicine.

Before mandated insurance coverage, some of those who would have wished to have reconstruction could not for lack of financial resources. There still may be some deficiencies in this regard. To me, that is a problem of access to reasonable medical care.

BarredOwl

Suladog

I've been uni flat for 25 years...(from in my 30's) and last year had another primary in the remaining breast so had another mx..there was never any question....I never ever wanted recon. I was given a poor prognosis the first time (so why bother) and my breasts have never been a big deal..literally, I'm small so it didn't bother me at all. I am a feminist and my husband/writing partner wanted me alive breasts or not. I am very happy flat. I've got great stick on foobs when I want them and nothing when I go running and in my case. with my build, no one can tell the difference

lisa-e

I think that the pressure to have reconstruction is largely driven by the medical community for financial reasons. Why else would plastic surgeons sponsor the bill establishing BRA day? I would hazard a guess that the majority of women who have reconstruction have good insurance coverage and can afford a loss of income. How many women who are covered by medicaid have reconstruction?

BarredOwl, many medical providers are not ethical in that their treatment decisions are influenced by financial considerations.

littleblueflowers

I never felt any pressure to reconstruct. My surgeon presented it as an option, but I would have had to go to another hospital to have it done, as there isn't a plastic surgeon on staff where I was treated. BS did say he could leave skin for later recon if I chose. Privately, long after my surgery, my Nurse Navigator said surgeon's hate doing skin sparing mastectomy's and far prefer to give the patient the 10 year old boy look, which is what I requested. That said, I am grateful that the option to reconstruct is still there if I should choose sometime in the future Right now, I'm young and very athletic,and can't see wasting any more time in the hospital than I already have due to cancer treatment. I may be fooling myself that no one cares if they do notice, but screw it. Who cares if they do? Cancer is ugly, but luckily I still have a fantastic rear view LOL.

LindaKR

I was really lucky that all of my docs were very neutral on the recon issue.  Never planned on it, and found out after treatment, that I was a really bad candidate for recon because of all he issues.  I don't understand why someone would have it for their children? I told my kids and grandkids that now I could hold them closer to my heart.

BarredOwl

Hi Lise-e:

I said ". . . ethical providers would not be influenced by such incentives." I agree that some providers may not be ethical. I do not know how many. I do believe there are ethical practitioners, and that other considerations (e.g., informed decision-making) might be a possible explanation for "pressure".

On an individual level, I hesitate to assume improper motivation from the mere fact that a surgeon informs me of a surgical option and/or recommends that I consult a plastic surgeon expressly in the interest of making a fully informed decision. At the same time, it is important to be cognizant of the possible financial incentives (which do exist and which I acknowledged), and being alert to whether they might be driving medical advice in a specific case.

BarredOwl

[Edit: I should clarify that my reference to "pressure" here is an awkward short-hand for everything that falls under that umbrella. I do not mean to suggest that it does not exist, because it does.]

lisa-e

BarredOwl, I guess I think many medical providers are not all that ethical.

I do think it informing patients of all of their surgical options is not necessarily indicative of an improper motivation. My surgeon asked me to see a plastic surgeon 'in the interest of making a fully informed decision.' But when I told him I didn't want to have reconstruction, he never nudged me in that direction again and actually enlisted the plastic surgeon I saw to help him plan the incisions, so I would have the best possible results. I told my surgeon I didn't like the plastic surgeon because I felt like she was pushing reconstruction. He assured me he would watch her like a hawk and not let her slip implants in.

glennie19

well-said, ksusan! and love kitty avatar!

I think those of you who chose to be flat and had your wishes honored were very fortunate. There is a lot of pressure to do recon at my place,,, and even though I never mentioned wanting recon, I was left with unwanted excess skin "just in case".

I also think it is good to have recon covered by insurance for those who want it.

Lisa-e has a good point,, wonder how many women who are on Medicaid have had recon,,,, Seems like it should be covered under equality in insurance, but now I am wondering.

BarredOwl

Lisa-e:

Your surgeon sounds like a keeper. I'm originally from the Bay Area. Santa Cruz would be a nice place to be right now.

Ksusan:

Thank you for your update post above, which is also good response to MT1's question wondering where we all are. In that regard, heading out now for a walk, flat but encased in down.

BarredOwl

kathindc

I don't think one has to necessarily consult a plastic surgeon to make an informed decision as to whether or not they should go through recon. There is enough information out on the Internet to help one make that decision. If through this research you end up with questions, then seeing a PS would be in order. I had always said I would go flat if diagnosed with BC. When it happened, I did research recon to make sure I still felt the same way. What I read and the pictures I saw reconfirmed my original feelings. From reading these threads, what I don't like is the surgeon telling women they need to see a mental health professional before surgery to make sure they know what they are doing or imply that you're not a woman unless you have breasts.

littleblueflowers

Its not any doctor's place to tell you how you should express your social identity or gender, unless you ask them for that advice! Any surgeon who implies that it is is an idiot at best. I have a buzz cut, no boobs, and no period. So, should I express myself as a man? Pffffft. Not unless I feel like it!