When is an alternative therapy a 'quackery'?

Anonymous

Hi All

 I note that my account was banned and my post deleted because I was 'selling' something.   Actually I would like to put the record straight and advise you that I have no financial benefit in telling you about this product.   I work for the company part time (2 days a week) doing statistics, and raise awareness in my own time because I feel this is too important a discover for it not to be known about.  I am not getting paid to write this post, in fact I would rather be in the garden but I am angry that my original post was taken down without redress.  I stand accused of being a 'quack', practising 'homeopathy' and slated as selling 'woo'.  

I would like to set the record straight regarding the homeopathy allegation.  This product is molecular.  There are thousands of molecules in each dose.   This natural substance was discovered over 20 years ago and is in minute quantities in the body.  It is the immune system regulator without which your body cannot fend off pathogens effectively.  The fact that this product (that I cannotname) restores trace elements that are missing in order to get the immune system working, and this is required in minute amounts, does not make it homeopathy.

In fact, because this gets the immune system working, it is not only effective against cancers of all sorts, but also shows great effect in autism, hiv, CFS, and more recently Parkinsons and rheumatoid arthritis.  It is used by many alternative practitioners across the world.

This is what a representative of the company has to say about homeopathy ' ***** is definiately not homeopathy.  The 46 research papers from 100+ emminent scientists give it a unique and superb reputation that we do not want tainted (by association with homeopathy)

Here are some feedbacks that I have come across, anonymous due to confidentiallity:

For cancer:

'Anyway thats what makes me think ***** must be helping my body to combat the cancer, so I'm not planning to stop taking it any time soon'

'Also, quick feedback.  Mum's cancer markers dropped a further 20% at last pathology.  She feels and looks pretty good.  We saw her surgeon again last week however and he thinks the tumour is still involving much of her artery and therefore is not keen on surgery.  I suspect some of the tissue might be 'dead' as her blood work is very good'

'Metastases on sternum right and clevical gone in 15th week on scans.  Working really well.  ***** has been life changing for me.  Feel so much better, have so much more energy'

'I met a man at the UPS office who was in line with me.  They couldn't find my *****, so we started chatting and he said he was dying of cancer.  He had only months to live.  I told him ' well it sounds like you've nothing to lose, so why don't you check out *****?.  I explained to him what I knew and he went home and ordered some.  His tumour has been shrinking ever since and it is almost completely gone. This is a total stranger - he called to thank me about it about a month ago.  His name is SG.  I've told a lot of people with cancer about your product but most people don't want to think outside the box.  This gut did and look how it benefited him'

Autism - 'I am here reporting that we have seen some nice weeks with our daughter, S, as she is more stable and seems to understand better the instructions that we give her. She is a little girl whose language is still emerging, but we can gladly see that she remembers the words if if wait for her to think.'

'My daughters rheumatoid arthritis also improved.  She could only walk for 5 min and she was in pain, her knees and ankled swelled.  Now she can walk more than 1 hour, she is also very happy about that.  I recommend it for people, both her autism and her arthritis have improved, it really helps'

Parkinsons - 'I must make note of the change with JP.  I spent some time with him on Saturday and he mentioned how much stronger his body was and how calm he was.  If a person didn't know he had Parkinsons, on Saturday there was no telling by his body action that he had parkinsons.  Thank you very much'

HIV - 'My viral load and CD4 counts are improved with *****'

It is used around the world by many alternative practitioners with great responses in cancer, HIV, autism and CFS/ME.  This is because it regulates and stimulates your immune system.  Your body can then go ahead and attack whatever pathogens it encounters.  It is not selective, unlike pharmaceutical drugs, and the parkinson and arthritis developments are unexpected but a bonus to the people involved.  I am not saying it works for everyone as it doesn't.  Some people are too far advanced, or their immune systems too destroyed by conventional therapy fot this to work.

I could go on and on but as this post is probably going to be deleted sometime soon, I will waste no more of my time.  

Your poster/moderator had this to say about the original post, after having researched it and found that it works via your immune system (meaning the problems will then not re-occur) - 'That's not too smart, because it means that you can only hit the mark up for money once.  My moo is going to be from cradle to grave, and my tapwater cure will have to be taken over a lifetime to work'.  I can only assume that this poster has a chip on her shoulder about alternative therapies, prefering instead conventional medicine that will keep you ill for life if it doesn't kill you first.

I am sorry that I am not promoting BigPharma - had I said that the chemo drug Adriamycin, was amazing, I expect that would have been allowed to stay (even though it is outperformed by the alternative remedy graviola in lab animal tests)

Good luck with your fight against cancer.  Sadly this is one product that I am not allowed to tell you about because raising awareness is deemed to be 'selling'.  

I just wanted to get my point across as I was so angry for being demeaned in that fashion, but I fully expect to get banned completely now as I had to raise another account in order to argue my point, which is flagrant breach of 'rules'.  This is despite my original account being barred for no reason - as I say, I raise awareness in my own time because I feel it is important to do so.  I get no financial benefit from sitting here and as you appear to not want to know about this, I am now off to the garden.  Adieu.

leggo

Hi Lesley. Sadly this happens on the alternative forum all the time. I for one, am grateful for people like you. I'm pretty sure if it wasn't for alternative therapy, I'd be dead by now. I appreciate the time you took to post in the first place and you are absolutely correct. Someone does have a huge chip on their shoulder. I am truly sorry that your initial post was removed and I am sorry to see you go. A personal thank you from me for trying.

Anonymous

Thanks for the support Gracie.  It is sad that this forum, which should be about sharing those alternative ideas, acts like a nanny/police state. Even if someone came on here and said that putting a pot of sweet pea flowers on her head and dancing under the full moon worked for her, it should be allowed to stay, even if the poster is the owner of the largest sweet pea shop in the country. People are very capable of doing their own research and asking their own questions, but it would appear that the moderators feel differently and delete stuff without even doing their own questions or research.  C'est la vie x

leggo

Lesley, I have a feeling your post was not deleted by the moderators, and was instead "removed by the community", which really means that one person just had to hit that stupid "report this post" button five times. That generates a robo-message and temporary banning. People who have been reading here for a long time are probably privvy to who it is and it only takes one to get the post removed, which is irritating as hell. If you wouldn't mind, and you are able, please send me the information you posted earlier that was removed via pm. I would like the information to keep in my "back pocket", just in case. Unfortunatley, I didn't get a chance to print it off before it was removed.

Anonymous

Hi Gracie

 I have pm'd you.  Good luck with everything.  And thanks for the explanation about the post delete button - if there is one person on this forum who is doesn't like what they read, then maybe they should not come on this forum and stick to 'conventional treatment' forum.  

Tea's made, garden calls, I'm off .....

Lesley xxx

sweetbean

Yes, I don't love that posts can be removed.  Even when I disagree with what someone has posted, I feel like everyone has a right to read it and make their own decisions. 

Tillycat

Hi Lesley

I read your earlier post and thought it was very interesting - not at all trying to sell something. I looked at the website but foolishly didn't save it and now can't seem to find it again. Could you pm the name and I shall google it.

I think we can all guess who hit the report button. I'm really not clear why they stalk these alternative/ complimentary threads. They seem to have a big axe to grind. Oh well we have no idea what has been going on in their life that makes them feel the need to do this.

Personally I agree with you that this is exactly the place where we should be able to talk about anything - sweet peas, enemas, tapping, whatever :-)

Melissa

Adey

Black-cat re posted it on the original thread.  Here it is;

www.gcmaf.eu/info/

(I think this is the one you mean.)

suzieq60

It takes 5 different people to report a post before it is removed. It is also reviewed by the moderators.

rosemary-b

Anything that will cure everything makes me skeptical. Also any employee of a company, not just a salesperson wants to see them make more sales and I don't think they can be impartial about that company's products.

Also the moderators check out everything reported by the community and will reinstate it if it has not broken any rules.

itsjustme10

Everything in this world is molecular - all that means is that its composed of molecules - just like every item in the physical world.  Your product would be special if it weren't molecular.  I would expect it to be molecular, or it wouldn't exist.  LMAO at believing anyone would fall for "oooh, its molecular".  So is water - its made up of 2 hydrogen molecules and one oxygen molecule. 

abigail48

where does this substance come from?  must be from an animal?

Anonymous

It comes from water. Tap water probably.

pupmom

If it quacks like a duck.....

thenewme

"When is alternative therapy a 'quackery'?"

Well, according to this definition, "....the major quality of quackery is fraud and the dispensing of useless or harmful treatments to vulnerable people who are dying. What quackery lacks in scientific study it sometimes makes up for by prescribing generous portions of caring-sometime sincere but often counterfeit-and overdoses of false hope. "

In my opinion, a website as littered with misinformation and nonsense as http://www.gcmaf.eu most definitely qualifies as quackery.   The following "recipe" they offer for "feeding your immune system" just one perfect example of its noteworthy quackery:

Neurofood recipe - pina colada taste

Mix In a blender:
220gm (half a pound) of piglet brain, preferably canned.
A whole peeled seedless orange
2 bananas,
the juice of one lime,
2-3 spoons of orange marmalade
200ml coconut milk
100ml vanilla
20 ml Malibu rum liqueur
20ml Cointreau liqueur

By the way, in case anyone is legitimately interested in exploring GcMAF, here's one resource from an evidence-based point of view discussing it:  http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2008/12/03/cancer-cured-for-good-gc-maf-and-the-miracle-cure/

For the record, I personally don't "report" posts like yours, Lesley.  I also disagree with posts being removed either by the community or by the mods.  I strongly believe that posts should be left intact, but I also strongly believe that others should be free to disagree with opinions and question and/or correct blatant misinformation.  

itsjustme10

I dunno, thenewme...if you substitute canned pineapple and some crushed ice for the canned pig brain, you might be on to something there... as long as you add a cherry and one of those cute little umbrellas on top.

rosemary-b

A neurofood that includes liqueur...mmm...tasty but alcohol in brain food????

pupmom

Canned piglet brain? I might just lose my bedtime snack! 

thenewme

I bet you thought I was making that up!  Of course, it would be infinitely funnier if people wouldn't come here to peddle such quackery to real breast cancer patients.

IMO, this falls into the "just when you thought you'd heard it all...." category!  

Lesley, I sincerely hope you never find yourself with a breast cancer diagnosis, but if you do I hope someone will be kind enough to call out scammy quacks who "only work part time" for a company selling woo and come to you trying to sell their dangerous BS.    Or just maybe you'll cure your own cancer with the "original human caveman" diet of offal that your company promotes.   

It's one thing to offer information and for us to have freedom of choice of cancer treatments, but to come here (and all over the internet where you're spamming it) selling this crap is just.... un-freakin'-believable.

exbrnxgrl

Itsjustme,

I was thinking the same thing! Sounds just like a drink I once had on a beach in Mexico. Piglet brain? You just lost the Jewish and Muslim market. Caryn

Anonymous

Re:In fact, because this gets the immune system working, it is not only effective against cancers of all sorts, but also shows great effect in autism, hiv, CFS, and more recently Parkinsons and rheumatoid arthritis. 

Yea,  but that's nothing new. All the quack remedies do this.  But there is one very big concern facing our world today that we have no remedy for.   I understand the World Health Organization is working day and night for the cure.  So far nobody has come up with anything remotely resembling a cure. 

I'm talking about the zombie apocalypse, man.  The FDA is trying to hide it but they are the cause and zombies are coming to a town near you very very soon.  They will eat your brains if not stopped!

Leslie, tell me your cure can protect me from becoming one of the living dead if I am bit. Tell me it works by building up my immune system and  gives me antibodies against zombies dirty mouths. Tell me this and I will buy 30 years worth of tap water, er, uh, I mean medicine from you. 

The world as we know it will end soon. It's us against the zombies. God speed, Leslie. If anybody has the cure to stop us from becoming one  of the living dead, it's you.

Anonymous

OK, I am not here to defend this product, or to try to sell it to you, and with the amount of negativity surrounding the responses here, I think I will leave it at that.  I will make a few points:

1 - I totally disagree with this caveman diet recipe, and have said so.  The reason it is suggested is because, so I am told, the body requires lipids to be able to rebuild the immune system quickly.  The inclusion of pig brain is at the suggestion of an alternative oncologist who states that the lipids there most closely resemble the lipids required.  But I personally will never recommend this to anyone.  In my eyes, it is gross, and I feel that there are alternative forms of lipids that will not exclude vegetarians, Muslims or Jews, or anyone else who has a weak stomach.

2 - Black-cat, you keep going on about it being just water because of the nanogram aspect (you accuse it of being homeopathy), yet I try to explain in laymans terms (because I am not a scientist) that it is a small molecular substance, as opposed to a chemical concoction, then I get shot down in flames by itsjustme for trying to explain that this is a teenyweeny insy but very potent part of the immune system, and it only takes nanograms.  I can't win this debate.  Just take it as read that it only takes nanograms to fire up the immune system.  You will see on the other thread that you helped delete that a lady with MS/CFS takes this with good results.  Many in that group use half or quarter of the recommended dose as their complex illness causes inflamation as the immune system fires up and this can be very distressing for them.  So how do you explain that, black-cat?  Is it still quack homeopathy?

3 - I think there are too many skeptics here for this to be a forum for debate.  No-one has asked me for research papers or explanations, yet they are happy to deride.   This is an ALTERNATIVE forum, not a slanging contest.

4 - The derisions include the fact that it cures lots of things.  That's incorrect.  It cures nothing.  What it does is replace an element in your immune system that is compromised.  Your immune system cures things.  And thats nothing new, we all know that our immune system is capable of curing any illnesses if it and the body is strong enough.  How do you think we evolved as a species?

5 - Believe what you will, but I am seeing emails coming in from all areas of illnesses giving positive views on how this is changing their lives.  I would recommend this to my family, and take it myself if I had the need.

Go to youtube and type in 'GcMAF explained - the start'.  This short video put up by someone 2 years ago explains how it works. Also google yamamoto gcmaf clinical trial.  He is the scientist who discovered this 20 years ago and had a 100% success rate on his select cancer trial.  Theres plenty of info out there for people who are genuinely interested.

And I have seen countless examples of human stories that tells me it works; this is with most people ignoring the dietary recommendations that I too would ignore.

abigail48

a nanogram from the immune system must have animan origen, thus not only tapwater.  again:  where is this nanograms gotten from?

the gerson therapy used anyway to use beef liver, raw, in juices.  not for me.  other parts of that therapy perhaps, if things get much worse.

I think it's very wrong to report anyone.  except porn.  administrators have to clear porn daily it seems.  I'm not against it either, each to his own, but not if it's completely irrelevant to the site.

rosemary-b

There are research papers on the site you sent us to. There were some big no-nos in them. The sample size was very small. The participants had all already received conventional therapy. If there had been more people in the studies and they had compared these people to people who had only had conventional therapy this might have gotten my attention.

Even if you only work part-time and do bookkeeping for this company you have a vested interest in the success of this product. This disturbs me deeply.