Why Such A Crabby Attitude?

Anonymous

So, I've been reading a lot of the threads, and it seems to me that a lot of women have very short fuses. I realize we are dealing with bc. But, it does seem that women here forget that everyone else is in the same situation, just different stages.

Why the meanness, and pettiness?  Some people should not even be allowed to post, the posts are so mean spirited.

I hesitate to come onto this forum, because of all the fighting and cattiness. It's very disappointing. I don't find it a supportive environment, and I can't imagine fighting for my life and trying to communicate with many of the people on this forum!  Where is the compassion?

I don't encounter this attitude at all with other groups I am involved with that are not bc oriented.

Just wondering,

Norah

Wabbit

It all really depends on what forums you are participating in I think. 

If you hang out on the Waiting for Test Results, Just Diagnosed, Going through Treatment, Chemo, Surgery threads etc. you won't hardly ever see a cross word ... just gobs of support and hand holding.   I like to make a visit to those areas when I need a reminder about what this board is really all about. 

When you get into the more debatable topics and the social threads there is more potential for disagreement and just like in real life it happens.

I don't think it's surprising that women dealing with breast cancer sometimes have short fuses and things can get out of hand once in awhile.  The Mods have gotten very good at throwing water on the flames and putting out the fires.    

cookiegal

I think it's the internet. Really. It brings out the underbelly of human nature. Throw in the stress of cancer and bam!

But honestly, I see drama on internet boards that have nothing to do with cancer.

It is true you can find calm threads. The middle age thread is always friendly. My radiation thread was friendly. There are others as well. 

Wabbit

Actually this board is tame IMO ... even the worst flare ups are polite compared to lots of other internet sites and boards.  Just go read some 'comments' on almost any news article you can find if you want to see mean and nasty ... yikes. 

jancie

Menopause is my excuse!

ma111

Norah,

I agree with you that there are a few cranky people and they post stuff they should not. Over all though I get more mental help then frustration from the boards and have learned who to stay away from that has started a thread. The mods do get involved and if you see something that is inappropriate, then let them know so they can help.

SelenaWolf

I agree wholeheartedly!  Sometimes, I am really taken aback by some of the posts/posters and don't find this forum a particularly friendly- or supportive place to be sometimes.  But - like ma111 - I have learned who the usual culprits are and tend to avoid them.  Since there are a few posters who's opinions and insight, I am interested in, I still - occasionally - drop in and check things out.  However, I spend most of my time - when here - in the threads- and links about the latest research and articles.

AnneW

I think cranky people are cranky people, cancer or not. And the anonimity of the internet is the perfect place to be snarky and not be accountable for one's words.

As a rule, BCO is a very supportive place. For cancer. For different values and ways of thinking...not so much. You have to be able to walk away from nastiness or learn to hold your ground in the midst of it. Or have your buddies fight the battles for you, because some people just love a good fight. Not me.

Pegs

i find this site to be very helpful, i also think some are very opinionated about certain subjects, i found the reconstruction forum especially about tram flaps to be very negative, so i choose not to read the negative stuff. its ok to suggest things but its the way some go about it that is imo not acceptable. 

dogsandjogs

I think it is because we are all at the mercy of a cancer diagnosis so we have no control to speak of. We don't like to admit that we are powerless so if we are doing everything we can to beat the beast we resent others who are using alternative (or no treatment)  We should try to be more  compassionate and understanding and respect the other points of view.

Anonymous

Norah- When I first came upon BCO my very first post I just happened to come across a member who, let's just say, has issues.  I thought this was the norm on here and hightailed it out of here.  Fast forward a month and came across the site again (not realizing it was the same one) and found some truly wonderful women.  There are definitely a few bad apples on here but overall I've found this to be an amazing place.  I've not only met some incredibly supportive women but have learned so much about my options for treatment and reconstruction.  Think of it as a pair of shoes.  You have to try on a few different ones to find just the right fit.  And if there's someone whose posts really drive you crazy (the shoes that give you major blisters) there is an ignore button you can use and you never have to see any of their posts.  I have to say I've used this a few times myself!  

lisagwa

Sometimes when reading email or anything online, it may be interpreted differently than the writer intended.

Anonymous

lisagwa- That is so true!  I think 90% of the drama on here is just misinterpretation.  I find the same thing happens on Facebook, in text messages, etc.

dlb823

Norah, I've been on BCO 3-1/2+ years.  Thankfully, the few bad apples don't ever seem to be here very long, although they certainly add an extremely "loud" and disappointing tone while they are.  I personally wish the Moderators would take a much stronger hand and swifter action because it's hard not to see where some threads are headed.  I've occasionally been so disgusted by some posters that I've considered leaving BCO.  But then I decided that it was better just to ignore those threads, which in many cases, ended up closed or deleted within a short time anyway.

Norah, if you haven't already, click on Forum Index above, and scroll down through the list of forums to see how really huge BCO is, and that the helpful, supportive threads and members far outnumber the few disappointing ones.

I've also learned that it might be okay to post on a Stage IV thread if it's of a social or informational nature and I have something to add, but not to offer an opinion about tx or emotional challenges.  I get that now, but many newbies (me included at one time) will unknowingly venture into one of those threads and encounter hostility because their advice is just out of place there. 

I hope you'll stay around long enough to see that the friendship and support here is really wonderful and unlike anything else out there.   (((Hugs)))   Deanna

Anonymous

I have also run across and been the receiver of some shockingly nasty responses.  As hard as it is.....it always seems best to try not to engage with them because you end up just "fueling their fire". (in my opinion) .

Like many have said, this site has been invaluable to me for obtaining information about treatment options, reconstruction options (whippetmom!), etc. (oftentimes my doctors have been surprised at how much I already know and the questions I come up with).  And of course the support and the friendships. Knowing you are not alone and that many people are experiencing what you are going through is so comforting when you are diagnosed with something like cancer.  It is also very rewarding to give back and reassure those that are just starting this journey that you were there once and you are doing okay now.

As far as the nasty/crabby people/threads.  I try to ignore them... or sometimes I will sit back with a glass of wine as they can make for interesting and almost comical reading.  

thenewme

I admit to sometimes having a crabby attitude here, and sometimes my attitude is downright craPPy.  

"Why such a crabby attitude?"  Thanks for asking!  I've been here for several years now, and misinformation makes me crabby.  People who post and defend bogus, untruthful, dangerous, and disingenuous thinly-disguised promotional information in order to promote some agenda other than breast cancer support make me crabby.

There you have it. If you're (Norahamby, not directed to you personally...just in general) one of those people or someone who comes here wanting fluff and kumbaya without being bothered with facts and truthful information, you're sure to find my "crabbiness" offensive, so please go ahead and put me on ignore now.  Bah. 

Anonymous

It seems like many of you who responded are aware of a group of nasties or rotten apples as I think you put it.

Why can't the moderators remove them, like permanently? Why are these people allowed to stay on the forum? They have nothing positive to add, IMHO....I have noticed that these same people have only positive things to say about conventional treatments, and very negative about alternative treatments, which many people are using and doing very well.

Some posters, such as thenewme. don't agree with what she considers to be genuine information, and that makes her crabby, but isn't that the decision of the person reading it? I mean, we all have access to internet and can look up any treatments that seem to be - as you say -' bogus. Why get your knickers in a twist over someone elses ideas of breast cancer treatment? If something is bogus, it will be proven to be so, right? No one has the right to delete postings about alternative treatments or any treatment. It is our right to research information and check it out.

It seems to me that there is a big disconnect between women who do the conventional treatment and women who do not, whether they are stage 1 or 4. I get the impression, from reading lots of threads, that the unconventional (alternative?) threads get little support and a lot of nasty posts, which are NOT moderated, except to remove the people who are pro-alternatives. Is this not so?

If I were considering chemo (which I am not) I would not read this forum, because it heavily leans on chemo as the only way.  My good friend is in a rehab right now, because her onc nearly killed her with the chemo cocktail. She had a horrible reaction and ended up in the hospital, where she now has C-diff. She's been in the hosp for weeks, and is too sick to even get chemo...which she doesn't want, now. These are not isolated cases.

I just think there should be more respect and openness for everyone, discussing ALL treatments, chemo or not. There are several downright rude posters (you know who you are) who, if they can't say something nice, should say nothing at all. Their comments are not necessary or wanted, from what I read. Yet the moderators continue to allow them to post.  No one has all the cancer answers,  Let's all try to be....kinder.

Norah

kayfh

The newme you're not crabby, you are INTERESTING. It does seem that your posts elicit strong opinions, but isn't that why you post as you do? I happen to agree with your point of view, but I can see how some of the things you say might be construed as red flags. As I said, interesting...

Chickadee

For the most part my impression is that nearly all the forums are not "crabby". There is one forum that I'm starting to avoid now and my ignore list is growing from that forum only.



I am very grateful for the Stage IV forum and we rarely have scraps and if we do it's usually resolved quickly because we allow ourselves lots of leeway for bad days. In fact we create posts to vent our bad days and everyone gets it.

Anonymous

Norahamby, I agree, some posters are particularly nasty and rude because they are allowed to be which gives them a sense of entitlement and makes them feel like big girls as a bonus.  I also think that there are many generation gaps on this board.  My generation certainly doesn't relate in the same manner as the younger generations. As for compassion, well, one either has it or doesn't  

thenewme

Thanks, Kayfh, for the kind words.

As to the rest, I will say that I do agree that "No one has the right to delete postings about alternative  treatments or any treatment. It is our right to research information and check it out."

I'm a firm believer in NOT deleting posts (other than outright spam or personal attacks).   

Just as it's our right to research information and check it out and post it, it's also the right of others to disagree and even <gasp!> correct dangerous or factually and demonstrably wrong information.

Why get my "knickers in a twist about it???"   Here are a few reasons.

MariannaLaFrance

It's a little bit of everything-- being scared witless, wanting to be in control, the anonymity of the internet, and the love of a good "debate".... or "fight".  

In the end, it doesn't matter, because we can't censor all information, and people will make their own choices, even if they involve colonics and vitamins, chemotherapy, or radiation.  Who are we to judge what choices people make with their own bodies, I ask?

 Isn't that what we always say in America? The freedom to choose.

Anonymous

Testimonials on alternatives are considered bunk by some posters.  I consider the above site promoted by the skeptics (so obvious, I'm gasping) overdone bunk except for approx 40 studies over a 20 year period of Joe Does and Jane Does.  Who's to say ?  

Food Poisoning Costs U.S. $152 Billion a Year 

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/food-poisoning/news/20100303/food-poisoning-costs-152-billion-a-year 

etherize

Hear, hear, Marianna -- well said! :-)

cooka

Norahamby,

Forgive me if this seems crabby, but it appears to me like you are trying to pick an Alt versus Conventional fight with THIS thread. I think those fights are annoying and wish you would all just give it a rest. It is particularly annoying when they pop up in threads that were not advertised as such. Just sayin'... 

Mardibra

Most of the nastiness I have seen is in the alternative threads.  Im guilty of jumping into the nastiness.  However, it feels like the Altie's have to be ready for a fight they know they will encounter because their views are not wildy popular.  So, because of their contstant commenting with their "virtual dukes in the air", they are very quick to respond and be nasty -they are expecting it.  In turn, the nasty comes right back at ya.  Although I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, I dont think its reasonable to call those who follow conventional methods "blind sheep"  who are following their MO without doing any research, morons for not subcribing to the theory that Big Pharma is "keeping an Altie down", or BCO conspiracy theories because someone had their nasty post removed.  I just dont believe that and i think its reckless to post such things.

So, will this nastiness continue?  You Bet!  Will I get involved?  No way!

Beesie

A lot of the really obvious nastiness is in the Alt and Complementary forums, but it's not restricted to those places.  There are some people who just have a mean streak and every so often you see that come out in their posts.

I have to admit that when I first saw this thread, I thought about saying something similar to what thenewme said but I decided to stay away.  However now that she's brought that up, let me post about other situations where I get crabby. The good news is that these have nothing to do with the Alt forum.

What gets my back up are situations that are more similar to what Pegs said, when she mentioned some of the negative comments that she's encountered when discussing Tram Flaps. I try to be polite and not let it show in my posts (sometimes I succeed, sometimes I don't) but inside I know I'm feeling pretty crabby when I see "support" that really isn't supportive. It's one thing when we offer opinions or explain what decisions we've made; it's another thing to push and push and push and continue to post over and over again, trying to direct someone to what we think they should be doing (which in most cases is the same as whatever it is that we did). Raising all the negatives about the direction that someone else is choosing and then talking about all the positives of the direction you went, isn't being supportive.  And after someone says that they've now made their decision and posts what it is, to point out why you didn't do that same thing isn't supportive and isn't helpful. Similarly, to those who are in the "Not Diagnosed" category, reinforcing their fears and even building up their fears ("I had the same thing and I ended up being diagnosed with BC" or "Yes, the radiologist may say that everything's okay on the film but it could be cancer so don't take any chances") isn't being helpful or supportive.  That's the one that probably gets me the most cranky - when someone has what is almost certain to be a benign problem (a small red spot on the breast and no other symptons, or a cyst) and yet everyone rallies around her telling her that she's right to be scared and to not take the doctor's word and to insist on more testing, etc.. Certainly there are times when more testing and not taking the doctor's word is good advice, but most of the time, something that looks like it's nothing turns out to be nothing.  So there are ways to present all the options - including explaining the risks and other things that might be good to do to ensure that nothing is missed - without reinforcing the fear that a diagnosis of BC is around the corner.

Just thinking about those types of situations make me crabby!   So count me as sometimes one of the ones who has a crabby attitude!

Outfield

I've thought a lot about the psychology of what Beesie mentions.  I noticed it in my life even before breast cancer.  Have any of you ever had to pick a preschool or a kindergarten in a place where the public schools are bad?  I realized during that process that some parents seemed to have some investment in my choosing for my kids what they had chosen for theirs.  It somehow validates a decision a person has made to have another person decide to do it.  Realizing this made me so much more thoughtul in discussing early childhood education with parent-friends, and I try not to discuss it with those who aren't at that place. 

I think there are a lot of us here who post in similar way, trying to get others to validate our choices.  I've probably done it, and probably done it even when I was trying not to.  It's hard, especially when there's a fine line between telling someone your personal experience to help them vs. to help you.

The psychology of how we give and receive and weigh information is really intersting in general, and our own insecurities probably explain a fair amount of crabbing. 

jancie

This same type of thread tends to appear any time a thread is deleted or locked by the mods.

Nothing positive ever comes out of a thread like this - no progress - no changed opinions.

Anonymous

I chose to talk about the Alt and conventional therapy threads, because that is where I am seeing the most anger. The Alt threads per se don't start out with nasty comments. From what I am reading, someone will post a question about Alt treatments, and then someone else comes on who definitely believes in conventional therapy and is quite nasty in their beliefs. It seems to me that these folks should not be posting on that particular site, if they don't believe in it. Why not let people have freedom of choice? Isn't that what America is about? You may feel that what a person has chosen, or is considering choosing, is 'dangerous' (as thenewme mentioned) but isn't that YOUR opinion? What right do you have to tell them what to think or do? It's THEIR body.  Many people feel chemo is dangerous, as it offers only a 5% advantage versus the very real lasting effects. As I said, I have a very sick friend who nearly died from a few chemo infusions. IMHO, if a natural product did this, it would be called quackery, would it not?

Most threads are ok, I just find a few irritating, with the same negative people posting on sites they have no business posting on, since they don't believe in that type of tx. As the heading to the thread on Alt says" for people who are interested in Alt treatments' NOT 'for people interested in talking Alt people into conventional treatment'. 

These are really the only two categories that I find so much angst, so I wondered why this is....as a person who had DCIS I want to learn as much as I can, but I find this difficult with so much arguing.  Let people make their own choices - they will anyway.

As an example, I was reading the Christian women's thread, and even tho there are many different types of religion, everyone is nice to everyone else. Beating up on another bc woman doesn't help anything, you know?

Norah

CoolBreeze

I think America is about *everybody* being able to share their viewpoint and if somebody thinks something is dangerous, one person has as much right to point that out as the person doing the dangerous (or not) thing.  

I also think of this more as a discussion board rather than a "support" board.  

That said, I do like the lines between forums.  I don't post in the alt forums.  I disagree with all of it but they should be allowed to have their place to talk, just as we Stage IV should have ours.  I never interfere in those threads and I wish people would let them have their space.

Now, if an alt person posts someplace else, I might express my disagreement.  Once a thread I posted in was *moved* to alt but that wasn't where it started.

Every single internet board has arguing, that's just the way it is.  That is why there are tools such as the ignore feature.  When you get thousands of people with differing viewpoints together, you are going to get ....well....differeing viewpoints.  That's what makes life interesting! If you don't like somebody, use the ignore feature.  I use it and it definitely makes the board more tolerable.

Starting threads like this is a bit crabby too, but I defend your right to do it.