Dairy...so friggin confusing.

Josiekat

So, I am in the process of creating some dietary guidelines and plans for myself for the post chemo, surgery, rads...new me. I am using complimentary medicine with chemo currently and plan to continue weekly acupuncture and some other things I feel have helped me feel good thus far.

I am already, and have always had a mostly plant based diet. I am not vegan, not even vegetarian. I have switched to coconut milk for my coffee. But, I love a good cheese, now and again.

Now, my big question is based on some stuff I have been reading by Dr Jane Plant. She believes dairy is the cause of many breast cancers and if you cut it out, you have a greater chance of not recurring and even treating the cancer you have.

I get the connection to lower BC rates in Asia, a nearly dairy free zone, but I just get caught up in the doubt. One person says sugar, one person sys meat, one says dairy and some say all three.

Trying to research data is so hard with food, things change with the wind it seems.

Any info on this topic is greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Jo

Sydneybased

Hi Jo,

Would also be worth reading The China Study by Colin Campbell - again, lots of evidence that dairy plus other forms of animal protein are linked to tumor growth. 

There's a huge pro-meat and pro-dairy industry out there which is willing to trash any scientific studies that conclude that dairy/animal protein consumption are bad for you. The industry is driven by the bottom line, and doesn't have consumers best interests at heart. You therefore need to rely on your own sense of what makes sense from a dietary perspective.

My approach is that if I'm willing to have chemo, radiation, herceptin and surgery, cutting milk, cheese and yoghurt out of my diet, and keeping meat/fish/eggs consumption very very low, isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. There are also benefits - skin and general health are much better because of the plant-based wholefood diet.

dlb823

Jo, I'm in the camp that believes all 3 of those (dairy, sugar & red meat) are bad for us, whether we've had bc or not, but especially after a bc dx.  

Another BCO member taught me to choose mostly cheese imported from Europe, where they don't use the chemicals they do in U.S. milk production.  And I still enjoy a bit of it.  I just don't eat it nearly as often or as much as I did pre-bc-dx.  I also occasionally have some organic Greek yogurt for its high protein content and beneficial bacteria.  

A couple of books that helped me change the way I eat (and I actually ate very healthy before bc compared to the majority of ppl), are Anti-Cancer, A New Way Of Life, by David Servan-Schreiber, MD, PhD.  And Beating Cancer With Nutrition by Patrick Quillin, PhD, RD,CNS.  They both have a wealth of information on why avoiding conventional dairy products, sugar, and red meat are important in our fight to regain our health.  And I would also add wheat to that list, as well as veggies like corn which are heavily GMO'd.       Deanna

Likeachickadee

Just started reading "The Beauty Detox Solution" by Kimberly Snyder, C.N.  Very interesting and she makes a case against dairy.  Recommend the book from what I've read so far.

Josiekat

Thank you so much y'all for getting back to me so quickly. I am leaning to cutting out all three except the occasional bit, when I feel the need. (sucker for manchego, dark chocolate and a bite or two of really good steak every once in awhile.)

Anyone read any of Dr. plant's stuff?

Sydneybased

See 'anyone a vegan thread' for Jane Plant's thoughts on soya.

sweetbean

I read that the Plant book - she makes a compelling case.  I have given up meat, dairy, and sugar.  Two other great books are Life Over Cancer by Keith Block and Anti-Cancer: A New Way of Life by David Servan-Schreiber.  

Dairy is made up of two proteins - casein (80%) and whey (20%).  Casein is very pro-inflammatory - cancer thrives in an inflammatory environment.  It also promotes the insulin growth factor hormone, or IGF-1, which has been linked to tumor growth.  Whey, on the other hand, downregulates IGF-1 and is anti-inflammatory.  I use a whey protein mix, but I don't eat any dairy with casein in it.  I honestly don't miss it anymore.  It's been over a year.  

Moderators

Hi Josiekat and all,

You may be interested in checking out the main Breastcancer.org site's Nutrition section, as well as our Organic Living section, and Dr. Marisa Weiss's Think Pink, Live Green column.

Hope you find this helpful!

--The Mods

bgirl

I wish it was as simple as not eating a specific food. As for dairy I can only say I have been for many years allergic, not lactose intollerant, to milk.  Still got BC!?.  Personally don't have to worry about cutting it out.  Eat a very small amount of organic goat cheese if I get a real craving.

A friend was trying to cut some bad stuff out of her diet and said she just couldn't.  I told her to pretend that she was allergic, you don't miss something that could kill you.

sweetbean

bgirl is right - there is no one thing that causes cancer.  it's definitely a  combination of factors.  however, i think the evidence against dairy is compelling enough to give it up or really limit it.  (I have buttercream frosting on my birthday cake, ohyesido.) However, I literally have dairy a few times a year and it's always organic.  I don't miss it on a daily basis, though - what I am addicted to know is kale, brussel sprouts, and baked sweet potato fries.  and i have decided to come up with a curried cauliflower/white bean wrap recipe -stay tuned!

Sydneybased

Yum. Please share

painterly

Sweetbean:

Addicted to kale, brussel sprouts etc???

. Me too.!!! I am off to play golf with thinly sliced brussel sprouts with sliced apple sprinkled with lemon in my bag. Last time,I had slices of Kale with the apple. Comments I got were: what the hell is that stuff you are eating??etc.etc.

But I did read those two: kale and brussels are at the top of the phytonutrient list, so I figure nothing wrong with a well nourished body.

(eta to change phytoestrogen to phytonutrient)

painterly

ps. I have cut down on dairy too....I was a huge milk drinker...I have very strong bones and teeth....I wonder if my teeth will fall out now that I am no longer a milk drinker? lol. But I think we get calcium from the green veges too, don't we?

peggy_j

bgirl wrote:
I wish it was as simple as not eating a specific food. As for dairy I can only say I have been for many years allergic, not lactose intollerant, to milk. Still got BC!?.  

I'm in the same boat. Dx'd with milk allergy at age 14 and got BC at 46. (I had eliminated most but not 100% of my dairy). But I think it's good to avoid it most of the time, esp. non-organic dairy, due to chemicals and the high fat content. There are great vegan cookbooks out there, so that can help while you're making the transition. 

Beesie

The question of whether dairy is bad for us comes up every so often.  I eat a lot of dairy, and I'm a bit of a research junkie, so when this topic came up about a year ago, I dug into it and tried to find all the research studies I could that examined the potential link between breast cancer and dairy. Surprisingly, it seems that if there is any connection, it's a positive connection, in that dairy consumption appears to reduce BC risk among pre-menopausal women (and possibly even post-menopausal women).  Here is a copy of my post from last year.  Hopefully all the links are still valid.  

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The Jane Plant article is old news. It's from 2000, if not earlier - it just keeps getting reissued and republished. It's been discussed on this board many times before, and the gaping holes in Jane Plant's theory have been pointed out. 

For a different perspective, here's a great article that reviews dozens of studies that have looked at the connection between dairy and breast cancer:  Consumption of dairy products and the risk of breast cancer: a review of the literature

Their conclusion:  "Differences in eating patterns and breast cancer rates across countries suggest that several dietary components, including dairy products, could affect breast cancer risk. However, dairy products are a diverse food group in terms of the factors that could potentially influence risk. Some dairy products, such as whole milk and many types of cheese, have a relatively high saturated fat content, which may increase risk. Moreover, milk products may contain contaminants such as pesticides, which have carcinogenic potential, and growth factors such as insulin-like growth factor I, which have been shown to promote breast cancer cell growth. In contrast, the calcium and vitamin D contents of dairy products have been hypothesized to reduce breast cancer risk. We reviewed the current epidemiologic literature on the relation between dairy product intakes and breast cancer risk, focusing primarily on the results of cohort and case-control studies. Most of the studies reviewed showed no consistent pattern of increased or decreased breast cancer risk with a high consumption of dairy products as a whole or when broken down into high-fat and low-fat dairy products, milk, cheese, or butter. Measurement error may have attenuated any modest association with dairy products. The available epidemiologic evidence does not support a strong association between the consumption of milk or other dairy products and breast cancer risk."

Yes, this article is from 2004 but it's a good summary of all the research done up to that time. All the more recent studies that I can find on dairy & breast cancer risk either show no relationship or actually show an inverse relationship between dairy and BC risk, particularly in pre-menopausal women but also possibly in post-menopausal women. In other words, the more dairy consumed, the lower the breast cancer rate. Note however that most of these results are not statistically significant but are directional. However there's even a study from China that shows this.

Dairy products, calcium intake, and breast cancer risk: a case-control study in China.   January 2011  "Our study supports a protective effect of high intake of dietary calcium on breast cancer risk, and no association with dairy product intake."

Dairy consumption and calcium intake and risk of breast cancer in a prospective cohort: the Norwegian Women and Cancer study   November 2010  "Premenopausal women with the highest consumption of white cheese had half the risk of breast cancer compared to those with the lowest consumption.... CONCLUSION: Dairy consumption is not strongly related to breast cancer risk in this prospective study. A non-significant negative association between calcium intake and breast cancer risk was seen, particularly among premenopausal women."

Meat, eggs, dairy products, and risk of breast cancer in the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) cohort.   September 2009  "We have not consistently identified intakes of meat, eggs, or dairy products as risk factors for breast cancer. Future studies should investigate the possible role of high-temperature cooking in the relation of red meat intake with breast cancer risk."

Dairy products, calcium and the risk of breast cancer: results of the French SU.VI.MAX prospective study.   May 2007  "Our data support the hypothesis that dairy products, through calcium content or a correlated component, might have a negative association with the risk of breast cancer, particularly among premenopausal women."

Dairy, calcium, and vitamin D intake and postmenopausal breast cancer risk in the Cancer Prevention Study II Nutrition Cohort  December 2005  "Our results support the hypothesis that dietary calcium and/or some other components in dairy products may modestly reduce risk of postmenopausal breast cancer. The stronger inverse associations among estrogen receptor-positive tumors deserve further study."

Don't you hate it when none of the studies seem to support what you want to believe?  (Not speaking for myself here; I like dairy and I'm happy to see these studies.)  

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sweetbean

I don't know.  All of these studies are looking for dairy to be a  "smoking gun" in breast cancer, the way cigarettes increase your risk of lung cancer.   That can't really be done - they have a truly difficult time telling what causes any type of cancer.  What they can identify is foods that make the body more friendly to cancer growth. Dairy  increases inflammation as well as the IGF-1 hormone - both of these things are pro-cancer.  I just finished Anti-Cancer: A New Way of Life and found the case against cancer to be extremely compelling.

I'd be curious to know who funded these studies.  You can also find studies from the chemical industry saying that chemicals don't cause cancer, but I know that ain't right.  This is probably why I am less enamored of studies - manipulating a study to get the result you want is totally possible.  Of course, not every researcher does that, but some sure do.  

LoriSJ

If dairy causes BC, my mother should have been the one diagnosed instead of me. I got the BRCA2 genetic mutation from her, she drinks more milk than anyone I've ever met (always organic, with every meal, in between meals and with her meds, plus yogurt and cheese) and she has not had any type of cancer at age 69, yet I was diagnosed with BC at age 39. I think maybe the vitamin D in milk may be what has saved her, so I have actually added milk to my diet. That said, I only buy organic. Nutrition Action Newsletter compared standard milk against organic a few years ago and the difference was amazing. Organic was off the charts better for you.

Heidihill

I hardly had dairy before I was diagnosed. I upped my dairy consumption after diagnosis and continue having my milk and cheese daily. That said, I do believe the source counts, that is, preferrably organic, grass-fed and high altitude. One would be comparing apples and oranges otherwise. But French cheeses, even if not from high altitudes, are so good for my soul and still rich in conjugated linoleic acid, a cancer-fighter.

Sydneybased

It ought to be noted that Jane Plant updated her book with the latest evidence on the negative effects of dairy in August 2007. Hence it's not fair to present her arguments as completely out of date.

sweetbean

I think organic is the only way to go if you are going to eat dairy, but I still don't eat it.  

Beesie

sweetbean, the links that I provided include the review of more than 50 different studies from countries around the world. Are they all suspect? 

This is why I don't often post in this forum.  If someone provides research findings that go against what people want to believe, then obviously the information can't be correct.  The data must have been manipulated to get the results that the researchers wanted.  Yup, every time.  And in this case, in all 50+ studies. 

I went into my search not having any idea whether or not dairy consumption increased BC risk but based on what I had read here, I would have guessed that it did. That's why I looked into it, because I wanted to know if I should reduce my dairy consumption. So I was pretty surprised at finding, over and over again, studies that showed either no correlation or an inverse relationship (i.e. increased consumption reduces risk).  I would have thought that this might be interesting to some of the people here and some might want to discuss it and pursue it further.  But last time I posted this, it was completely ignored.  It looks like this time the reaction is pretty similar.  

I'm glad I did the digging around in the first place because at least I'm now comfortable with my dairy consumption.  But I don't know why I bothered searching for my old post and reposting here. It's not like I didn't know what the reaction would be.  

sweetbean

Wait a minute.  I didn't say that all of the studies were manipulated - in fact, I made a point of saying that most researchers don't manipulate their studies.  However, i used to work in the medical research world and I've seen some pretty crappy moves by researchers trying to extend their funding.  Again, not the majority by a long shot, but it happens.  

And honestly, I  didn't look at the studies. i was sure they said exactly what you said that they said.  I was just making the point about the effect that dairy has on stuff like inflammation levels, IGF-1 hormone levels, etc.  That's what convinced me to avoid it, rather than any study that said "consuming dairy increases your risk of BC by x amount."

Chickadee

Beesie, you read it right. Thanks for the info and the effort you put into it. I

chrissilini

Beesie...thank you so much for providing that info. I found it to be truly informative and I feel better about my dairy consumption. I love milk, always have, and will continue to drink it. If this stupid cancer has taught me anything it's that life is too short. I'm going to do what I can to be healhy but I'm going to enjoy it too. Chocolate milk makes me happy! Thanks again for the info.

Kadia

The jury being out, evidence wise, on dairy and BC, people may need to use other criteria when deciding about whether to consume dairy. I choose to avoid it most of the time, largely due to the environmental harm most dairy farming causes, and because of the animal suffering associated with it. It's easy for me to do so, though, as I've never much cared for dairy--may even be somewhat lactose intolerant (which many people are). I get my calcium from plant sources that I know are healthy for me (molasses, kale, broccoli).

1Athena1

Beesie - phew - you have no idea how happy I am to read your information, and thanks for putting it together. Honestly, dairy is something I would have a harder time giving up than smoking, which I quit doing almost three years ago.

I would think any risk would be associated with additives/hormones --not the dairy food itself. If the products one buys are strictly organic, one should be mostly ok. One thing I did do after dx was ONLY purchase organic milk and eggs. I still consume dairy products at restaurants, etc... that are probably not organic, but I thought setting a good house rule might have at least some protective effect.

Heidihill

Beesie, even though I did my own digging around and found no problem with organic dairy products and even some evidence it may reduce cancer risk, I'm grateful for the research you did.

I do think that not all dairy and meat products are the same in different parts of the world, so it would be hard to generalize and caution is probably not a bad thing.

Heidihill

sweetbean, whey is supposed to be great for you. At the children's hospital here, I was told the children are supplemented with whey to boost their immune systems.

I don't know that IGF-1 is the culprit in cancer. (I also looked into that.) From Wikipedia:

IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of growth hormone (GH). Growth hormone is made in the anterior pituitary gland, is released into the blood stream, and then stimulates the liver to produce IGF-1. IGF-1 then stimulates systemic body growth, and has growth-promoting effects on almost every cell in the body, especially skeletal muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, kidney, nerves, skin, hematopoietic cell, and lungs. In addition to the insulin-like effects, IGF-1 can also regulate cell growth and development, especially in nerve cells, as well as cellular DNA synthesis.

I know part of the reason exercise is great is because of how growth hormone released during exercise can affect healthy cell development everywhere and in my mind repair the damage caused by cancer. I needed stronger muscles, stronger bones, healthier blood counts, stronger nerves. I reasoned if exercise is good for me, then so must dairy in theory. Of course, cancerous cells may also benefit because the body may not be able to distinguish between healthy cells and cancer. This is where I think observational studies come in. If most studies say exercise is good, there must be some other offsetting factor. If most studies say dairy is good, there must also be some offsetting factor.

sweetbean

Yes, you are right.  Whey is good - it's the casein in dairy that is supposed to be bad.  I got the information about IGF-1 from the Life Over Cancer and Anti-Cancer books.  I'll look up the info and repost later.  And also, yes, you are right about exercise - it's great for you.

Sydneybased

The long and the short of it is that we're all flaying around looking for something we can do about the shit situation we're in and no-one knows the answer - the magic bullet. There's a tendency to develop belief systems - it's a natural part of the process of regaining control. My personal belief is that I need to avoid dairy. I find the evidence cited in various sources compelling. It resonates with me. I'm very suspicious of how pro-dairy/pro-meat research findings are funded. I'm just naturally cynical. I don't believe these two industries have my best interests at heart. But back to the key point - we don't know the answer and therefore there's bound to be a range of theories being put forward on these boards. But we need tolerance because ultimately we're all in the shit together and will come out of it fighting and strong if we encourage and support as a default.

mamabee

Beesie - Thank you so much for putting together all that info and for digging up your old post. It was very helpful!