Komen and Planned Parenthood

LovesChristmas-Barb

Then it shouldn't make any difference to you IF Komen decides that they would like to donate their money to other organizations that offer free screenings. If all you care about is that the women get served, and they can be served elsewhere than PP, then you shouldn't care if Komen gives their money to a different organization rather than PP.

Pompeed

            No medical provider in the US -- regardless of religious affiliation -- may discriminate in the provision of medical services if it accepts federal Medicare or Medicaide funding. 

             To say that no Catholic hospital turns anyone away on the basis of the patient's religious affiliation or non-affiliation as some sort of affirmation of that facilities policy says nothing whatsoever. 

              All it says is: the facility seeks and receives federal subsidies for the provision of medical services to patients.  In exchange for providing those services, the facility must comply with federal mandates and one of those mandates is: the patient's religious status or non-status cannot be used in any way as the basis to offer treatment or deny treatment the patient seeks.  Any more than it can discriminate amongst patients by race, class, gender, insurance status, age or bank account balance.

             No religiously affiliated facility has to offer services which are contrary to its own religious observance.  But it cannot deny treatment to a patient for services it does offer on the basis of the patient's religious or non-religious observances. 

             Let's not give any particular religiously affiliated medical facility all kinds of special kudos for doing what it it merely obligated to do: comply with the law. 

             Going around with a van and offering free screening to women by who need those services and providing them in various ways is doing nothing other than what the facility was supposed to do and was responsible to do in exchance for taking the money which subsidizes those services. 

Faye33

cynsister,

My understanding is PP does not do the actual breast screenings.  They refer to outside facilities.  Sure the PP doctor or NP does a clinical breast exam and then referrs the woman on for screening in an outside facility.  By that same token, my family doctor should get funding from Komen because he does cllinical breast exams.  Hmmmm.... he spent a whole 1-2 minutes feeling my breast lump, and then made a referral for testing, which is where it started costing the big bucks. 

Is pp really going to have their doctors stop giving clinical breast exams because Komen isn't funding them?  Did they not do clinical breast exams before Komen gave them grants?

LovesChristmas-Barb

I brought up the the particular religious affliliated medical facility because cynsister made the implication (unless I read her incorrectly) that she was worried that women would be discriminated against based on their religious/moral/political views. These religious groups don't offer these services because they're forced to by the government. They care about people too. In fact, historically, most hospitals were founded by Christian religious groups to serve the poor. 

Faye33

Pompeed,

Again, I ask, where is the proof Stearn and Handel are friends?

I know and work with many many people who may even agree with me on one or two things, but we are hardly friends.  Some of us probably don't even like each other very much.  And because I know someone and have worked with them and hold a few similar views doesn't prove I'm connected with what they do.

Faye33

Exactly, LovesChristmas-barb58!

crazy4carrots

Faye wrote:

My understanding is PP does not do the actual breast screenings.  They refer to outside facilities.  Sure the PP doctor or NP does a clinical breast exam and then referrs the woman on for screening in an outside facility.  By that same token, my family doctor should get funding from Komen because he does cllinical breast exams.  Hmmmm.... he spent a whole 1-2 minutes feeling my breast lump, and then made a referral for testing, which is where it started costing the big bucks. 

 

And MY understanding is that PP exists for girls and women who cannot afford health insurance, nor can they afford a visit to a family doctor.  Unfortunately, healthcare in the U.S. is still a privilege, rather than a right  <sigh>.

Pompeed

             I can't help you, Faye.  The questions are irrelevant.  Now the focus is on the definition of the word "friend" and what that means to you.

              That point of view is the lens through which you view the world of American poliics and the day to day operations of American politicians.  

               Which really means that from your point of view, unless someone finds Handel and Sterns in flagrante at some point and there's a photo published on the front page of some gossip paper, there's no reason for you to believe they ever heard of each other much less know each other by sight or greet each other and shake hands at the Republican policy functions they both attend as the Republican politicians they are.

                When two politicians from the same state and in the same party make public statements of their political views which are exactly in accord with each other, views they announce as their political platforms and grounds for seeking votes for elected office, it's really not a stretch to say they are political colleagues and "friends" vis-a-vis that point of view and that topic.

angelsister

I think you did misunderstand me loveschristmas. I was pointing out that komen and several posters have indicated clearly that based on their own objections on moral/religious grounds are happy to pull funding for breast screening for a group of women. No point now trying to claim otherwise. Its the abortions that PP carryout and the birth control they give out that you care about and feel that you have a right to judge and discrimminate. If this isnt true then why have we been subject to your moralising? You are entitled to your opinions but those with different views arent wrong or undeserving of care. Now i may have misinderstood you, but my impression cristmas, was that you think im some anti religious, pro abortion woman who is interested in debating the moral correctness of you or PP. Ive said repeatedly that i am not. It is the morals of komen that i have a problem with and took my money, miles and time elsewhere, long since. But again, am i concerned about women and breast cancer screening suffering because of this, then yes i am

Faye33

Pompeed,

It just bothers me that you use all these accusations and perceptions to formulate who's motives are what and why.  I was questioning you, because I was curious if your perception was based on fact or perception.  You answered my question, loud and clear.

I never said they didn't know each other.  Your accusations just made it sound like they were working together to bring down PP, and when I looked for more facts, it's suddenly irrelevant. 

And yes, gossip papers is where I get all my news...  (sigh)

angelsister

Did you read that the vp of komen has publicly said she wants PP defunded? Have you read stearns views on PP? Come on, join the dots

Faye33

Dot joining is dangerous.  It's based on perception and not fact.

I've lived life long enough and seen enough people suck at dot to dot's concerning my life and others, that I've choosen to operate on truth, not perception.

I'm learning truth is something a lot of people, unfortunately, don't  want to deal with.

This makes me sad.

LovesChristmas-Barb

I never, ever said that women of different views are undeserving of care. I am saying that PP isn't the only organization out there that does screening for poor women. There are many options around here and Komen should be free to give their money to whatever group they feel comfortable giving to. If you don't like who Komen gives their money to, then give your money directly to the group you want to. That's what I've done and that's what I'll do again. I've always been annoyed that Komen only directs around 24% of their money to research when they're always talking about walking for the cure. As far as moralizing goes, I've just been stating my opinion of why I don't support PP. I haven't judged you. You obviously don't like my opinion and have made that known.  I just think that I should be allowed to have my opinion and state it just as I feel you are free to state yours.

LovesChristmas-Barb

I'm pushing the "like" button for your last post Faye33.

thepinkbirdie

It's not just for women and it's not all about women.  Planned Parenthood provides healthcare not only to women who cannot afford health insurance or a doctor, but they also provide healthcare to men.  Poor men deserve healthcare, too.

And men can get breast cancer, too. 

bdavis

Ok.. so we can agree that Loveschristmas-Barb and Faye33 are on one side of this debate and most others are on the other... The focus has been lost here... debating most of this is irrelevent. Some local Catholic group offering help to the poor is great, but Komen has to reach the greater good, and that is where PP comes in as they are a national organization. And whether you ethically agree with some other facets of their organization or not, is NOT PERTINENT to women's health and breast screening.

angelsister

Thanks for saying that bdavis, i was starting to worry that i'd lost me marbles!

Pompeed

         Anyone who isn't aware of the fact that the Republican Party and the Republicans in the House and Senate caucus, as well as Republicans in office on state levels are working together to defund PP on all levels isn't living in the real world.

         My advice to anyone who is interested in how Republican politics are used to control women and women's health concerns, including breast cancer: skip the dots.  Just read the press releases and the campaign speeches and the campaign platforms.  Listen to the interviews.  Listen to the questions asked and the comments offered in hearings.  Look at voting records of the politicians involved.  On committees holding hearings on draft leglislation and on bills brought to the floor of either house.  The Congressional Record is published daily, is open to the public and always has been.  Check up on the campaign funding sources for those voting to make women's health concerns subject to criminal penalities.

         It's all there.  No one needs to rely on anyone else's perceptions or misperceptions if one thinks that's what's going on.  The Republican politicians, including Handel and Stearn among others, say everything one needs to know.

         

           

   

LovesChristmas-Barb

Why should Komen have to give to "the greater good" as you believe it to be? Why should they have to give to a certain group at all?Maybe they believe another organization could be to "the greater good". They are free to give to whatever group they want just like you and I are. If you believe that people should be allowed to have choices, then Komen should be allowed to have choices too. You have the choice to give to Komen, PP, or whomever you like. Everyone, including Komen, should have that choice. It's not as if you are forced to give to Komen...that would be a different situation.

And for me and others who believe like me, the other facets are pertinent, so I have chosen not to give to PP or Komen but to support other organizations that are helping women with health care and breast care screening.

Pompeed

            The political interference is what's at issue.   That's the only issue. 

            Which means that the health of the women of this nation is being subjected to and made a political football of particular political whims. 

            Some people seem to think that political interference with women's health concerns will have a positve impact on breast cancer research or on the clinical early detection methods which are known to save lives when women are seen and diagnosed early,  Or, put another way, some thinkg that political interference will no impact at all or or at least not impose a negative impact.

            I don't.

           

angelsister

Maybe we could surmise from the apparent turn around and apology from komen on grants for PP that the pressure from a large number of donators believe it to be 'the greater good' even if the exec board of komen dont agree? One can only hope, but i dont hold my breath, their colours have been shown imo

Faye33

As far as the republicans trying to defund PP, I guess they have every grounds to, if the basis is that they are using tax monies given by the government in a manner that is not consistent with how it was intended.  Or if PP is taking part in illegal activities, which is the other part of the investigation.

If PP has used the tax moneys appropriately, then they have nothing to worry about.  If PP is not involved in illegal activities, then they have nothing to worry about.

The truth will come out, one way or another... I'll make my judgements when the truth comes out, not based on someone's perception of what may or may not be happening. 

And why does Komen have to change their policies, so it fits PP situation?   These are grants given... out of the goodness of Komen's heart.  To me, having to meet certain specifications to qualify for a grant makes perfect sense, and from my understanding is typical granting procedure.

All PP would of had to do was ride out this investigation, and if they were found to be in compliance, apply for more grants from Komen.  Instead, PP and its supporters threw a huge temper tantrum.  At that point, Komen should have told PP to grow up and walked away.  Instead, they let the bully smear their face in the mud.

PP spoke loud and clear.  "You gave money to us before.  If you stop now, we'll cry politics and harassment.  You have to keep giving us your money, like it or not." They are untouchable.

LovesChristmas-Barb

If the donators believe PP to be to the greater good than the donators should just give to PP. The exec board of Komen does not have to make their decisions based on what anyone else thinks. They should be free to make those decisions based on their own convictions if they choose.

And if you don't trust them, don't support them. I haven't and I still won't. No one is forcing you to give money to Komen.

I've been boycotting companies that donate to PP for years....

angelsister

Out of the goodness of their heart??

crazy4carrots

Komen is not expected to do anything "out of the goodness of their heart".  It IS expected to do what it purports -- to its donors -- to do, and that is to fulfill its obligations to support breast cancer research, education, awareness and breast health access.  Its responsibilities are to its donors, and not to some whim of largesse.

One of the biggest problems Komen is now having in the court of public opinion is the fact that it is not living up to the "for the cure" in its name.  I suggest (and from what I'm reading in the paper and in websites, including this one) is that donors are very upset that so little of the dollars raised actually support research.   Secondly, many donors are very upset that Komen has become politicized -- absolutely the WRONG move for a healthcare charity.

Fortunately, there are many other options for those of us who choose to support breast cancer charities.  I'm pleased to know that the Canadian Breast Cancer Foundation - which recently affiliated with Komen -- is very upset that Komen chose to defund PP (even though this year's grant will be honoured).  We're lucky in Canada to have universal healthcare; we feel badly that there are so many in the U.S. who must depend on PP and a few other entities for their breast health care and screening. 

LovesChristmas-Barb

I've noticed cynsister that you are from the United Kingdom. I'm just curious...does Komen have a branch in the United Kingdom?

And I guess I don't understand your question above. Am I missing something? I'm a bit tired today. I'm still getting over my hyst/ooph and between that and the arimidex I'm not getting much sleep!

Pompeed

            The goodness of its organizational not-for-profit tax status heart?  That is a direct backhand to every woman who ever walked or ran or raised funds or opened her own checkbook.

            And the "guess" that there is some wrong doing on the part of PP?  Without any proof whatever and with facts to the contrary one can read without making an effort?  Geez. 

            I did not realize it until just now.  Some women really do not mind at all if the health of the women in the US is put right out on the political chopping block and then sliced and diced up into little pieces depending upon the whims of a very self-selected few. 

angelsister

No they don't loveschristmas. Hope you get some rest and have speedy recovery

LovesChristmas-Barb

Its responsibilities is not to its donors. It's responsibilities are to fulfill their stated mission and they are free to fulfill that mission in the way they deem best. If the donors don't like their methods or don't believe they are fulfilling their mission, they don't have to give.

Pompeed

LovesChristmas wrote: "Its responsibilities is not to its donors."

             If that's the case, then what Brinkley said the other day, both verbally and in the press release as the excuse offered for what was done, was a complete crock of bovine poop.

             I suggest a read through the corporate charter and the not-for-profit provisions of the IRS tax code.