Vitamin D - Mainstream, evidence-based, good info

AlaskaAngel

It is about 45 minutes of listening time, but I'm glad I took the time.

http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/3668/dr-michael-holick-the-vitamin-d-expert-episode-443/

AlaskaAngel

P.S. To the moderators: This thread might belong in conventional treatment or maybe another forum like complementary therapy.... but because the doctor giving the presentation has done the investigations and yet the new RDA for conventional treatment with vitamin D is still much more limited to typical dose of 600 IU a day (up from 400 IU a day), I'm not sure where it belongs. It definitely is not chemotherapy (conventional cancer therapy).

Hindsfeet

AA ... I listen to  it over lunch and I posted it on my fb. Everyone has to listen to this. What an incrediable interview... I learned a lot!

AlaskaAngel

evebarry,

My NP always tests my vitamin D level at least yearly. Because I live so far north and am indoors so much more of the year, I have a hard time keeping my level up. The low end of normal is 30 and the high end of normal is around 80 and mine tends to fall to around 39 if I don't constantly supplement. I don't know what my level was at time of diagnosis, but I wish I did. I was not supplementing then at all and just getting it from diet. I am taking 4,000 IU a day until my level is above 45 (and never miss a day of it) and then will go to 2,000 IU a day.

A.A.

P.S. Doesn't it make you wonder why it isn't standard to test every breast cancer patient at time of diagnosis and then emphasize supplementing to build the patient up, at least while going through the initial surgery, etc.?

Hindsfeet

My naturalpath put me on vitamin D about 3 yrs back. My vitamin D levels are tested yearly. They were slightly low in December so I'll up them. What I learned in the interview is how many diseases can be contributed to low vitamin D level.

I also live in the NW where we don't see a lot of sunshine for about 6 months of the year. When the sun is out, I like to spend at least 15 minutes in the sun or just working in the garden for an hour.

SpecialK

My onc tested Vitamin D once chemo was completed.  It is part of the normal post-chemo workup, as was tumor markers (CA27/29) and a PET scan.  Mine was quite low and he instructed me to take extra Vit D and has continued to monitor my levels to see if my level is coming up.  Honestly, I probably would not have taken it during chemo because it would have been yet another thing to take, and I was taking enough other supplements and assorted medications.

AlaskaAngel

SpecialK

Were you in Tampa, FL back then too?

The info on prognosis for those with low vitamin D at time of diagosis, if true, was interesting. I do remember taking an awful lot of pills when doing chemo. But I was wondering why they would not get a jump ahead on it and test right away at time of diagnosis and then supplement through surgery at least until other treatment was chosen and started.

A.A.

SpecialK

Yes, I moved to Tampa in 2006.  My journey of diagnosis is complicated by being a military spouse.  My original diagnostic imaging was done on the base, I was referred out to an oncological breast surgeon who actually diagnosed me.  He would not have tested my D level.  I had more imaging at a separate but con-joined facility, had a BMX with the BS and a private PS, and my oncologist is yet another practitioner at a branch of a large state-wide cancer practice.  From the time I was diagnosed until I started chemo was actually about 4 1/2 months because I had 5 surgeries prior to chemo.  My vitamin D level was not really a huge priority at that point in time, and I did not have much contact with the oncologist until I started chemo.

SheChirple

Hmm...I've beeen monitoring Vit D, among all my vitamin levels, for three years, prior to diagnosis.

My lab says range for normal is 30 - 100.  I have been continuously at 25-27.  I take dialy Vit D and keep increasing it.  I live in Southern California, so i get plenty of sun, especially in summer, but still lack Vit D.

Hmmmm

slousha

Hi SheChirple,

At my experience, your D3 levels are really low. I‘ve had 37 and it was said BC ladies should have it 60-80. I have a sunny balcony, was taking sun bath every day at midday, without sun crème, only 15 minutes each site.In 9 months  my levels raised from 37 to 72 without medicine. So much my information!

Best

AlaskaAngel

Of course there is also concern with sun exposure about melanoma, and maybe more so as the atmosphere changes due to the ozone, and all that to consider. Figuring out the best balance of exposure to sunlight is better than just slathering on protective cream (that can contain parabens or other substances). BUT....

Some time ago I read a bit about a female researcher who was studying the effects of sunlight that enters through the eyes. I think she may have been Australian and she was trying to figure out whether a particlar color of the light and wavelength was especially beneficial so that people would know the actual importance of not only taking supplemental vitamin D but the importance of exposure to sunlight through the eyes. I have looked since then to try to find her name, or the information, but I've lost track of it.

Here is an interesting commentary about the phenomenon, and the research on it done by another individual:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/full_spectrum_sunlight.html

"Ott discusses experiments which showed that sunlight absorbed through the eyes had dramatic effects on the pineal gland. It is these which are of the greatest significance as far as cancer is concerned."

"In an interview published in 1991, he noted: "There are neurochemical channels from the retina to the pineal and pituitary glands, the master glands of the whole endocrine system that controls the production and release of hormones. This regulates your body chemistry and its growth, all organs of your body, including your brain, and how they function"."

P.S. A main hormone that is regulated by this is melatonin -- which affects both skin pigmentation and sleep cycle -- and there is more research being done that indicates that one's melatonin production may be protective against cancer.

I was diagnosed in December, biopsied in early January, and began chemo in March. There are studies that show that the time of year when one is diagnosed may affect the prognosis. At that time I had no info about any of this, but from the start I got out on our porch in my swimsuit even when it was cold and sunny. I deliberately kept my eyes open as much as possible.

MariannaLaFrance

Thank you for the information on the sunlight and pineal gland. My niece, who lives in Seattle, was diagnosed with a large pineal cyst this year, and it is causing her visual problems and headaches.  She is 26 years of age. I will share this data with her. My nutritionist firmly believes that one should be able to go outside without the use of sunglasses, so he augmented my supplements with Vitamin A for a short time to ensure that I was "topped off" in my supply of Vitamin A. The goal of this was to ensure eye health and to increase my night time vision. It helped enormously.

pupmom

AA, I'm getting traditional treatment. My MO tested me for Vit D immediately following my first visit with her. Fortunately my level is normal.  I take 2000 I.U. a day to keep my level up, per doctor's instructions.  

cheryl1946

As soon as I got my dx Iwas told to take vit D3 and calcium. My initial D level was 36. I never go in the sun.

Cheryl

LuvRVing

My level at my first diagnosis was about 40, and I had just returned from 2 weeks in Hawaii, I can only imagine how low I must have been.  I am taking 3000 iu's a day and I am now around 60.  My MO tests regularly.

Hindsfeet

AA .. interesting in regard to when you were dx. Three of my dx were in the fall, and 3 surgeries in December. The fourth, the mucinious was dx in Dec. I live in the NW where it rains a lot....except we do have a few months in the summer when the weather and sunshine is perfect.

Likeachickadee

This was really interesting and alarming.  I just had a conversation with my landlord 2 days ago who is a research scientist about my DX and he asked if my vit D was low.  When I said yes (<20) he told me to increase my vit D that it is critical in fighting breast cancer and also prostate cancer.

I especially found his statement that 75% of breast cancer patients are more likely to DIE from the disease if they are deficient at time of diagnosis.....Does that mean once the damage is done it's done?  

MariannaLaFrance

I think it would be hard to predict that 75% number, but I do think it's important to get your numbers up if you do get diagnosed. I even tell my friends that don't appear to have anything that they need to request this test at their annual exams.  It could be that low Vitamin D levels are an indicator that something's amiss, so better to ramp up the Vitamin levels before it gets out of hand. 

My malnourishment was definitely linked to the BC..... I was severly undernourished due to an unknown gluten allergy, and had even developed neuropathy in both feet because of my low mineral levels.  And believe me, you don't have to be underweight to be malnourished.  

Kaara

When I had my Vitamin D levels tested almost a year ago by my BHRT physician, my levels were very low...27.  Not surprising in that I had just been through a series of illnesses...upper respiratory, UTI's, and five bee stings which resulted in shingles over the past summer.  He immediately put me on 5,000 IU's daily and in November I tested at 57.  My naturopathic physician would like me to reach at least 70 now that I have been dx with bc.  I am boosting my 5,000 IU's with a couple of extra pills a week in hopes of moving it up.

Thanks AA for posting...will listen to it tomorrow morning when I have the free time. 

AlaskaAngel

Likachicka,

What I got out of it is this. The younger a person is, the more efficiently the bone system works with calcium and vitamin D, etc., so those who have gotten lots of vitamin D and sunshine and calcium and exercise to pull it all into the bones (as well as getting natural light thru the eyes) when they are younger probably have the least likelihood of having a worse prognosis (and alternatively the best likelihood of a favorable diagnosis) among those who are diagnosed. As we age it is even more important to work harder at getting the calcium and the vitamin D and sunshine and the exercise.

There is no absolute answer as to why I have not recurred thus far. But my history DOES fit that theory very well. My younger years into my thirties included a lot of outdoor hard physical work in the California sunshine.

Whenever I can find info from such people who have a reputable history and who have such fine abilities to make their complex understanding of it available and interesting and meaningful to us all, I enjoy sharing it here.

Ginger48

Marianna- I agree with you. I am overweight and also have a malabsorption issue. I have been off gluten for five years now but the years I was eating it definitely took their toll on my body. I was Vit D and b12 deficient and have to take 10,000 IU of D in liquid form daily and get a b12 shot every month. My adrenals are exhausted and I have huge inflammation issues and a terrible immune system. Not really hard to see how I ended up with cancer...

JanetM

Reading all of this has me concerned that the last time my vitamin D level was tested was in June and it was 12.  No one seemed too concerned about it.

Ginger48

JanetM- 12 is really low. I would check with your drs on that one!

JanetM

Ob/gyn was a little concerned but my PCP didn't think it was a problem.  So sick have dealing with doctors at this point.

AlaskaAngel

Vitamin D is pretty easy to apply and it doesn't require a prescription and it isn't expensive. Don't go overboard with it, but if you are sure that was the reading, that is REALLY low.

AlaskaAngel

JanetM

That was the reading, I got a copy of the lab report.  Funny how some doctors are bothered by it and other think it is just another fad and nothing to be worried about.  Enough to make you crazy.

AlaskaAngel

Unless one lives in a place where money is really tight, there seems to be a psychological bias by the more elite and formally educated and specialized, that favors the expensive synthetic types of treatment at time of crisis over the basic essential health maintenance tasks of adequate minerals, vitamins, exercise, etc. Patients can also tend to buy into it because they assume that the "doctor" is paying attention to all of their health needs and would tell them to stay focused on those needs too, when in reality specialists are narrowly focused a lot of the time on the mysteries of the one particular problem they are helping with. They don't stay aware that the lack of emphasis on some of the basic health maintenance can ruin all the spendy treatments they are so jazzed about.

And it is also true that there is a lot more glory for doctors in providing exciting potentially blockbuster drugs than there is in the day-to-day reminders to people (who often ignore the reminders anyway). There are some patients, too, who are so sold on the latest and greatest chemotherapy that they block out a lot of the importance of simpler therapies and put most of their eggs in the basket of toxic chemistry, even though it is known that certain patients get little to no benefit from those therapies.

A.A.

Calico

Anyone know if it is okay to take D3 with a D2 prescription? My daughter (19) was on D3 and was testet with a result of 24. She is suppose to take the D2 once a week for 12 weeks, totally forgot to ask the doc. Glad we found out early due to bc risk in the family.

firstcall

Its fine to take D2 with D3  D3 is the form the body uses, and D2 is converted to D3 by the body.  They both add to your D levels.  

MariannaLaFrance

I rely solely on the D3 drops (2,000 IU, Carlson brand) to bring up my levels. I was initially diagnosed with 30 ng/l, and successfully brought my levels up to 70 with drops (usually 4,000-6,000 IU daily), and spending some time in the sunshine with no sunscreen.  I decided to drop the supplements last summer, as I was outside quite a bit, but my levels dropped back down to 52! Back on the supplements, and will attempt to get some natural rays this weekend.

lrr4993

I hate to sound completely lazy, but I dont have time to listen to this.  Would anyone mind providing a very short list of highlights?  I am particularly interested in any recommendations for supplements (brand, dosage, form, etc.). 

Thanks! 

Calico

Adrian,

Thank you