Bone Loss

hawaiik

Has anyone taken human growth hormone for bone growth? I've read a little about it and among other things it's supposed to increase bone growth and density. Anyone out there know anything about this?

hawaiik

Hi everyone I was just searching the site and noticed someone else out there was trying to promote hgh or something, just wanted you to know it's not me!!! I found out I have osteopenia on top of this beast cancer diagnosis and just was wondering about it so I posted the question.

Thanks all

Annabella58

Hi Hawaiik;

Just an aside....are you tiny? If so, petite females often have osteopenia and it does not necessarily mean in any way that this is a foregone conclusion that it will be straight to osteoporosis.

My 81 year old mom has had osteopenia (aka tiny white female) her entire life.  she just moved a fridge.  Not advisable, but she can and does. 

So don't worry until you get there!

something that weirdly does work is prunes.....I know, I know, but the tiny ones and about 6-8 daily have been shown in more than one study to offset bone loss.  They aren't too bad.  That and weight bearing exercise, altho again my mom just stays very active, always has, no exercise routine per se. 

everybody's different.

hawaiik

Hi anniealso,

I guess you could say I'm tiny, 5'3" about 118 lbs. actually my mom AND my younger sis also have osteopenia, they've tried fossamax in my 83 yr old mom and it helped but she hated the muscle cramps. They've tried presciption strength Vita D in my sis but no help. So ,maybe it's just normal for us. Thanks for the response!

Annabella58

You are most welcome my dear and good luck.

I'm very small 5'1", and not so uh (well proportioned) as in chubby. (135), and the arimidex has given me trouble walking and a "hip click"...It isn't arthritic, it isn't bone, it's the stupid tendon popping over the hip joint.

Other than that, I have not gotten a DEXA in over 2 years.  I know it wouldn't be good, and even my GP is not into bone drugs, says there is too much controversy.  Ah, denial.

So for me, it's prunes, wishful thinking, and just keepin on, keepin on.

It can indeed, be normal for your family, and if no one has ever broken a hip, that is a very good sign that it may be.

Good luck to you with everything!

cycle-path

Annie, I have to say that I think ignoring the possibility that you may have osteoporosis is not very different from finding a lump in your breast and ignoring the possibility that you have BC. There are many fatalities each year from broken hips as well as from BC. 

Your GP may think the bone drugs are controversial, but he's not an expert. For expertise on bones I believe you ought to see an endocrinologist.

Truly, don't neglect your bones. They're important! 

WinnieThePooh

I asked my doctor for a bone density scan and received the results yesterday.  I'm only 43 but something told me to get the scan - plus my mom has osteoporosis.  I got my results the next day.  Not good.  Osteopoenia and osteoporosis!  I was shocked!  He said chemotherapy can cause bone loss and he wants to put me on Fosomax.  He said the numbers aren't that bad and if I stay where I'm at - I will be fine - he just wants to prevent any additional loss.  Now about Fosomax... Does anyone else remember hearing warnings about Fosomax?  I remember television commercials about it.  My mothers doctor took her off of it because of possible dangers.  The Internet shows Fosomax and osteonecrosis... Naturally I will be calling my doctor but I just wanted to know if anyone else has already researched this.

Thanks!

cycle-path

When the bisphosphonates (like Fosamax and Boniva) were introduced they were -- like many drugs -- thought to be a magic bullet. Well, as usual that turns out not to be the case. There are positives and negatives to the drugs.

Personally, I think you need to research these drugs for yourself, as there are a lot of moving parts to the situation. How bad is the osteoporosis? Where's the worst location? Have you been given other tests to see what's going on? (Chemo and hormonal treatments can cause osteoporosis, but other things can too.) 

I took Fosamax for a few months and it was very hard on my GI system, but I was switched to IV bisphosphonates (first Boniva, then Reclast) and I've had nothing but great results. Others here have had problems.

As I said in the post above yours, your bones are important. People do die as a result of hip fractures, particularly older people, and you don't want to be one of those sad statistics one day. So you almost certainly need to do SOMETHING about your osteoporosis -- the question is not whether to do something, but WHAT to do. Only you can make that decision, with the aid of your doctors and your personal research.  

Annabella58

cycle path, while I appreciate your thoughts, no one has ever thought I had osteoporosis nor that I had any reason to think I did.  Osteoporosis is not considered a fatal disease.  BC is.  Huge difference.

My onc is completely on board with no DEXA, he feels it's fine.  My GP is as well as my OB/GYN.  All feel as do I,that radiation in moderation is helpful, but osteopenia does not osteoporosis make in any way.  It merely shows how small your bones are.

Given all of that, I do have certain risk factors and I will get a DEXA at some point.  But I draw the line at the yearly bit with full blessing from all drs.

cycle-path

Annie, you're quite correct that osteoporosis is not fatal, but hip fractures pretty frequently are -- particularly in the elderly.

debbie6122

Annie- I have osteopenia and was put on boniva, the SE were excruiciating pain so couldnt take it or any of the other bisp. I was excited to hear that prunes help, i will go buy some today and hopefully see a difference down the road. Thanks!

debbie6122

Hawaiik- I have heard that HGH should not be used if you have cancer, and have huge SE associated with it. They have a natural form of HGH suppliments that are supposed to be beneficial.

Nordy

LOL... I read the study on prunes - it says 10 per day. Sooooo, I have been taking 10 per day for the past 3 days. I won't know for a while if it has helped my bone density, but it certainly is doing a number on my digestive system! LOLOLOLOL! My daughter (she is 4) keeps asking, "What's that smell?!" LOLOLOLOL  Gassy, gassy, gassy... I am hoping that after a while my body will get used to having them and stop with the gas madness!

Also - I really would not want to take HGH... crazy! And I also am avoiding bisphosphonates as long as I can (hopefully forever). I did read another study somewhere that says the loss of progesterone is actually more detrimental to bones than the loss of estrogen. Go figure! Also, avoid too much salt and too much sugar!

debbie6122

Nordy- Oh that is a funny story, now im not so sure i want to try them LOL! I wonder if prune juice will give you the same benefits, without the gas of course LOL!

Nordy

Hmmm... I don't know about the prune juice... and I do think the "dried plums" - which is what the prune people pushed to rename prunes so that they wouldn't carry that "old people food" stigma around - are quite tasty. Yum... just eating 10 of them seems like a ton!

debbie6122

I had no idea that prunes were the same as plums? If im understanding you correctly.

chrissyb

Debbie6122, prunes are a particular variety of plum that are semi dried to give us the....u hummm......helper that we need in certain other areas beside bones.

debbie6122

LOL@chrissy, thanks for clearing that up!

dlb823

Dexa scans involve a high amount of radiation.  They are not recommended to be done more often than every two years.

I'm also concerned about osteopenia that's gotten worse in the past couple of years (I'm also small framed), and after no real help from my PCP, decided to consult with a naturopathic doctor who asked me to give her a year to try to reverse it before considering pharmaceuticals.  One of the first things she did was put me on natural thyroid stimulating hormone (mine was within normal range per conventional guidelines, but low per more ideal guidelines), as well as a bone building mineral compound to complement the calcium/magnesium/D3 I've always taken.  She also found other hormones (not estrogen or progesterone) that needed support, and she believes all of these changes will hopefully do the trick.

Just thought I'd share this in case anyone else wants to try to avoid biphosphonates.   Deanna 

debbie6122

Thanks Deanna, Do you need a prescription for these and do they cause any bone pain at all?

LtotheK

Read up a little more about prunes. They are not necessarily advisable for those with cancer, apparently they can encourage cancer growth.  I thought they were going to be my bone magic bullet--just another lesson that magic bullets are but a fantasy in the health realm!

Chemotherapy pushed me into the osteoporotic realm in my spine, osteopenic in the hip and leg.  I am doing a few things: weight bearing 4x a week per the recommendations (less than that seems to be ineffective), high-quality calcium, vitamin D, and Fosamax.  I chose to do Fosamax not because I think it works or is good, per se, but because I knew if I continued down this road, my doctor would prescribe Prolia.  And I really would like to avoid such a new and serious drug.  I'm doing just fine on Fosamax so far, and hope I only have to be on it a little while.  After extensive research, and even a discussion with my endocrinologist, there seems to be a lot of question about whether the bios can built the strut systems that actually shore up the bone.  Density is not the same as the beautiful and amazing architecture of a live bone that is much like a skyscraper! 

"It's not all good news. Prunes may be a problem for people with cancer or even at risk of cancer.  Before starting on a prune diet, read our follow up article posted at:

http://denvernaturopathic.com/prunesIGFcancer.htm" 

Annabella58

Thank you, Deanna, my GP is very concerned over excess radiation "just to see how things are",  After cat scans, mammos, diagnostic, rads txtmnt, etc., this stuff never leaves the body.

She feels that radiation "just to check" is a bad idea.  Monitoring on a more reasonable basis makes sense to her.

I will monitor prob. next year as I've had an oopharectomy (my choice to lower ER+++) and have then been on Arimidex 3 1/2 years.  I've taken many the tumble and have had xrays to see if I was fine and haven't broken nor fractured a thing.  My risk is higher than others as I am tiny, caucasian, on arimidex, and had oopharectomy and osteopenia.  However, osteopenia has remained just that in my family.  Everyone is different.  Some cases (my family history) never progress to anything and apparently, it's just that we are small caucasian women.  No one has ever broken a hip and we are a bunch of VERY long lived scandinavians. (90s). 

I am very much more concerned that now they have warnings on the bone drugs such as the Foxamax femur bone risk and the reclast Kidney issue.

Zometa my onc goes hot and cold on, he feels not enough info out there either way.

My GP is on the naturopathic edge of things and I am going to take your info to her and see what she has to add.

Thank you so much!

(Re: the prunes.  I use the mini ones, the sunsweet variety.  It's fine to make it about 6-7 of them, depending on your size.  When I get hm, er, "backed up" from all the calcium, I eat them.  It sort of ends up (pun intended) as prunes every other day, calcium most days.  If calcium SEs are too bad, I lay off it for a day or so and do more prunes.  It's been working so far for me..

if the SEs get too bad, you can blame it on the dog.  Or I have had success working up to the max amount.  Begin with two or three of the little ones and increase very slowly.  If you start at 9 or 10, you will be very regular, hopefully with great bones, but you won't be popular ;0.

cycle-path

"Dexa scans involve a high amount of radiation. They are not recommended to be done more often than every two years."

I'm sorry, dlb, but I have to correct this. There's very little radiation involved in getting a DEXA scan. The amount of radiation received in a DEXA scan is considered to be about 1/10 of what you get during a chest xray. 

kira1234

I have no idea how much radiation I'm getting from the Dexa scans, but I do know my Onc. wants a yearly scan to monitor the bone loss. In the first year it was 3% over all but 6% in my back bone area, so he wants to monitor closely.

I would love any advice on exercises that could help build or at least keep the bone from degrading.

LtotheK

Kira, we are in the same boat osteo-wise, sounds like.  I have we talked about the Urban Rebounder?  It is supposed to be great for lymphedema, and bone building!  I find it's a bit hard on my bad back, but on good days, I slip a DVD in and jump around for 20 minutes.  I think it's a great alternative.

As you likely know, walking and swimming (my go-to exercises...) don't do diddly.  But, the good news about the weightlifting--it's the back and lower body exercises we really need to focus on a lot for osteo, so I go very gingerly up top to avoid any issues with LE, and really work hard on the lower body stuff.  I'm proud to say I've built quite a bit of muscle!

Oxygen magazine is great.  Again, I am very ginger with upper body exercises.  I've never gone over 7.5 - 10 lbs.  Once when I did, I felt it.  And it's not worth the LE risk.  I'm also probably going to start wearing a sleeve just to be sure (getting fitted for a real glove instead of that awful hoof-making gauntlet).

Sugar, it appears, is also bad for bone.  My new year resolution is going to be to cut it completely.  It's been a rough holiday season....

dlb823

Thanks, cycle-path.  I stand corrected on the Dexascan comment.  (Remind me not to be on the computer at midnight after a major Christmas party, when my thinking obviously wasn't in fact-check mode!)  Not sure who'd given me that info' about Dexascans, but it appears it's not accurate, although after having RT for bc, I still don't want anymore RT than I absolutely have to have. I also should have said my TSH was too high (not too low), which I just noticed in rereading my late night rambling.

Debbie, I don't think you want to self-RX the hormones I was low in.  I was just trying to make the point that sometimes we may have individual hormone or other imbalances that underly our ability to properly make bone.  But we're each so individual, I would think a personal evaluation and indepth testing by the kind of doctor who is trained to look for imbalances and prefers to treat naturally whenever possible, might be worth considering if you want to try to avoid meds. Otherwise, you could unknowingly create worse problems.      Deanna 

kira1234

I have a rebounder which I agree is great, by my goodness it's a real killer on the back. I have to be very careful how long I do it at one time. I try to do 5 minutes a day. If I do more I can hardly stand up straight the next day. I remember my mom later in years with the same trouble. She had very bad osteoporosis, and had many small back fractures starting in her early 60's. I really don't want to suffer as she did the last 20 years of her life.

LtotheK

Kira, you and I sound very similar.  My grandmother really suffered due to osteo as well.  In fact, she died of it, and was bedridden for the last two years of her life.  Miserable.  I consider osteoporosis a life-threatening disease, absolutely.

kira1234

LtotheK,

 I agree osteoporosis is a life threatening disease. Mom was in rehab several times in her later 70's due to the small fractures of her spine. What is even sadder she got BC at 80 and died from it at 83. She went through chemo and was in excruciating pain the last 3 years due to the cancer as well as the treatments.

debbie6122

Deanna- When i had a bone scan about 2 years ago it showed very low bone mass, thats why i was put on boniva and other ones, i couldnt tolerate. I recently had another one due to extreme pain in my hip and femur bone (thought it was cancer) Thank god it wasn't but it showed a lot more deteriation in my bones, my Dr is upset i cant take the any of the bone drugs. So i think my next step is to talk to a naturalpath and do it naturally first and go from there. As always, you are always helpful.

gentianviolet

Has anyone heard of Strontium Citrate?  It is to be taken at least two hours before you take calcium pills (I would assume that also means magnesium.)  I have been taking Doctor's Best strontium citrate for almost two years as a bone builder.  It is a prescription in Europe and I the believe the strontium delivery system involves ranelate instead of citrate.  There have been many tests done which have shown bone growth and reduced fractures.  Google strontium and a wealth of information will come up.