Changes you've made to prevent recurrence

KCandJsMom

Done with surgery, chemo, radiation, and have started HT. Now time to tackle lifestyle changes. Though I rarely post, you've been an amazing and invaluable focus group for my breast cancer journey. And once again, I'd love the benefit of your research and experience. I am interested in the changes you have made, in order of importance, since discovering you had breast cancer. Things you hope may keep the beast away!

I can probably only change one or two things a month so I'm interested in how you prioritize the changes you have made. Please share what is critical on your must/mustn't do list and then maybe your should/shouldn't do so I have things to consider working on once I have mastered the "Musts"!

Thanks is advance. I am 45 with 2 little ones, Stage III, ILC, er+, pr-, her2-

jennyboog

Congrats on finishing tx.  I should probably do more but so far, I exercise, buy organic when I can, eat more veggies and fruits, take fish oil, a multivitamin (mostly for the D) and astaxanthin (a strong antioxidant).  I'm sure others with more experience will come along soon.  Great topic & good luck.

thefuzzylemon

I have really focused on deep breathing and mindful meditation ... long baths and positive, healing thoughts.  I will begin a workout routine (yoga, bow flex, treadmill, boxing) as soon as the fatigue and all lessen ... I just don't have that in me right now.

Oh ... and juicing ... I really need to get back on that but again - it takes time and energy to do.

jeanette30

Hi fuzzy/jenny    I am on HT, done with radiation, chemo. I am just taking things easy right now cause my fatigue keeps me down somewhat. most of all I feel good if I dont overdo it!

jeanette30

KCandyJ's Mom       Certain things I don't do, or try not to do: #1 No sugar, like cookies, cake, etc. I have heard that cancer's favorite food is sugar. #2 Staying busy, but not over doing it. #3 Prayer. so far so good

Boo307

Congratulations on finishing treatment.  I found lots of walking gave me the thinking time I needed to come to terms with my cancer, my future, find peace of mind.  Research shows that exercise and being of normal weight reduces the risk of recurrence.  So I started Weight Watchers and registered for the BC 3 Day Walk.  Over that year I lost 10% of my body weight and became more fit.  I am now working on running and losing a pound a month and I'm on target. 

Here is some of the research I found.  Best wishes.  Boo

"Physical activity after a breast cancer disgnosis may reduce the risk of death from the disease.  The greatest benefit occurred in women who performed the equivalent of walking 3 to 5 hours per week at an average pace, with little evidence of a correlation between increased benefit and greater energy expenditure.  Women with breast cancer who follow US physically activity recommendations may improve their survival."

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/293/20/2479.full.pdf+html?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=cancer+exercise&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

ScienceDaily (Feb. 1, 2005) - Alexandria, VA -- Women who are overweight prior to breast cancer diagnosis, or who are lean but gain weight following diagnosis, are more likely to have their disease return or die of the disease, a new study shows. This effect was found to be particularly pronounced among women who had never smoked. The study is to be published online January 31 in the Journal of Clinical Oncology (JCO).

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050201102436.htm

JustLaura

What a great topic! This is exactly what I'm struggling with right now. I started my HT in August and had my final surgery (BMX with DIEP reconstruction) in mid-Oct. Now I have to figure out how to 'carry on'.

Vitamin D - I am uping my Vit D intake to increase my Vit D level - it was low in my last blood test and you want them higher to fight the cancer. My onc prescribed 50,000 units once a week for 12 weeks with 2,000 units a day for maintenance. I'm midway through my 3 months of mega-C now.

Food Choices - I'm trying to eat well. Lots of fruit and vegetables. Especially broccoli, blueberries, grains, and other green leafy veggies within reason. I'm also drinking green tea. I am a tea snob and I really don't care for green tea - I love loose black teas (I am not a coffee drinker). But I'm trying to have two mugs of green tea a day - I found that I like the Lipton Mandarin Orange Green Tea. I'm also trying to eat flax seed daily. I usually just sprinkle some in my morning oatmeal.

Exercise - My onc told me the single best thing I could do to reduce my chances of reoccurence is to exercise. 45 mins a day 4 days a week - hard enough that you can not carry on a conversation. I walk my dogs 3 miles a day at a good pace (hard to converse) but I need to do more. Now that my energy is returning after my surgeries I'm anxious to do more. But I'm not sure what I'll do yet.  

I would love to hear what others are doing too. 

diana50

i pray every day; Lords prayer and apostle creed. alos thanking God for all my blessings...every day.

i cycle 18-20 miles a day and walk 45 minutes (fast pace) every day also.  i really believe in the exercise; i think it changes the chemistry of the body in a good way.

my praying and increase of exercise are the two major changes i have made. so far...so good.

MaxineO

Great topic. I think exercise has been #1 priority for me (trying really hard to squeeze it in)

I also take omega-3 and vitamin D. I cut down on what little meat I had been eating (haven't eaten beef in 20 years anyway).  An emerging idea, I think, is limiting your exposure to BPAs, something in many canned foods that leaches into the food; so try to buy organic when I can. Increase fruits, vegetables, and whole grains, and try to drink green tea.

I appreciate seeing the prayer response. That has been huge for me; my faith has really gotten me through the past year.  Meditation, prayer, deep breathing, whatever way you practice, I think this is a huge part of keeping your mind on healing...in more ways than physically. Reducing stress is part of that goal (tell my kids!).

faithfulheart

I am with you diana , lots of prayer,  I prayer the Lords prayer everyday as well,  I am always thanking Him for the gift of one more beautiful day!!!!!  I work on my excersise, I need to kick that up a notch, However,  I never sit, running around 2 kids non stop, but I suppose thats not the same................ I eat organic fruits and veggie's, vit d , I take juice plus, just in case I don't get enough friuts or veggie's in  that day. Fluids, lots of water, love coffee, not mich of a tea drinker, I wish I liked green tea, I just can't stand it!!!! I have a glass of red wine with dinner, this is  not something I am suggesting though, it is a personal choice, I enjoy it and, I feel that out ways the bad, or it least thats how I justify it!!!! Just take it slow, I think number 1 keep your stress level down, try to walk, and pray......................................

Take Care, you will be an old lady!!

Faithful

starbeauty

Just want to add... Doing most of the above, plus added dim, myomin, aspirin, metformin, and switched bp med to propranolol. Also proposing to onc a switching between Tam and AI intermittently every 2 years.

SpecialK

I am still receiving Herceptin for several more months and have started on Femara (I am post-menopausal) but also participated in a research study (yea! a paid one!) on Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction that was specifically for BC patients exiting active treatment.  This study was conducted by the U of So. FL School of Nursing and Moffitt Cancer Center and has a scientific quantification measurement of stress hormones (Cortisol) with blood/saliva samples at various points during the study.  We were taught meditation, yoga, understanding how to live in the present, understanding our ability to control (or inability to control) events and how we react to situations, etc.  I am also trying to eat organic fruits and veggies, grass-fed meats, switch to almond milk to eliminate hormones present in many dairy products.  Learning which foods have larger amounts of phytoestrogens and avoiding them as I am strongly ER+. Drinking green tea and water, eliminating soda, sugar and processed foods, white flour, white rice. Drink alcohol very sparingly. Storing things in glass instead of plastic, cleaning with natural products, researching and using lotions and cosmetics with harmful ingredients.  Currently taking calcium, multivitamin, extra D, fish oil, probiotics, B-complex, Acetyl L-Carnitine, but looking to add more supplements as I learn about which are appropriate.  I am also considering a consultation with a nutritionist at the local NCI desigated cancer center.  I am participating in the Livestrong program at my YMCA and also walking 4 miles at least 3 times a week minimum.

elimar86861

I'm the one who shows up every now and then to write a little Devil's Advocacy.  I have no idea what caused my cancer in the first place, so I have made no changes at all to prevent recurrence, as I feel it would be mainly a guessing game.  That is not to say that I haven't stayed active and took off a few pounds (because I would be fighting the middle-aged belly fat anyway.)  That is not to say that I haven't gotten good info. on these threads about Vit. D and started supplementing with it (and it has helped my sleep if nothing else; and the very latest on it is that for those with deficiency, supplementing can be preventative for heart disease!)  In reading the women's stories, I see B/C has been pretty random, showing up in the fit and the fat, the vegans, the omnivores, the organic everythings, and the Cheetos lovers (guilty!) alike.  It's also going to recur in a certain percentage regardless. So, any changes you make, make them for your overall health, to feel your best. 

Or you are free to think I am an idiot, but IF you do get a recurrence, don't kick yourself for not doing enough or kick yourself because you adopted the lifestyle of a Shaolin Monk and it returned anyway.  Cancer has been around for several millenium, which definitely encompasses a whole wide variation of diets and lifestyles, not just our modern one.  What I am saying is ancient humans, primates and maybe even dinosaurs got cancer.  I'm pretty sure they weren't reheating their leftovers with microwaves in plastic containers.

In an effort to be helpful, I will say that alcohol is looking a bit worse than previously thought.  Even the founder of BC.org, Dr. Marissa Weiss, has revised her stance and gone a bit more hardline about limiting alcohol consumption based on information from newer studies.  You know if I am incorrect, the Mods will eventually pop in to correct me. Here is the current stance:

http://community.breastcancer.org/livegreen/alcohol-and-cancer-you-cant-drink-to-your-health/

(cut and paste in browser if link does not work)

I know that "doing something to fight cancer" so that it never returns is an irresistible premise and if it does lure you make changes to a healthier state of being, that's great. 

AmyIsStrong

I take a number of supplements (vit D, calcium, l-carnitine, maitake, green tea, tumeric, fish oil). I limit red meat to almost none, and try to eat lots of vegetables as mainstay of diet. Lots of exercise - 1 hour or more going hard 6 days/week.  And I have changed a lot to greatly reduce stress. Plus I get a lot of sleep, definitely 8 hours/night. Also no alcohol, no junk food, no sugar (well, almost none). No caffeine. 

I feel fantastic. BUT I had made just about all these changes PRE-dx and was feeling the best I ever have in my life. And got bc anyway. So who knows.

But in the meantime, it makes me feel like I am keeping on fighting. 

SpecialK

I agree with Elimar and Amy since we don't know what causes BC how do we know what prevents a recurrence?  The changes I have made have been easy to incorporate, some of these things I was doing before, some are common sense, and some are deliberate and new - they may not keep me from having a recurrence, but they make me feel good today.

dlb823

Interesting post, elimar.  I don't disagree with you that none of us fully knows what may or may not have caused or contributed to our bc.  And I agree that recurrences happen in spite of lifestyle changes.  But I also feel that bc happens because something in our lives is out of balance -- whether it's diet, or hormones, or our stress level, or toxic chemicals, or a lack of exercise -- something (and I think it's often a combination of things), is out of balance.  It may not be the same for any two of us, but if we were living totally in balance, then I personally believe bc would not have happened in the first place.  And if we can identify those personal imbalances through medical testing and self evaluation, then I think those would be smart areas to address, to try to get our bodies not just healthier, but truly in balance.  

So while I agree with you that making changes will never prevent every reoccurance -- because we just don't fully understand the genetic component of bc --  I also believe that making wise, targeted changes absolutely does make a huge difference for many.  JMHO...    Deanna 

Gitane

Thanks KCandJsMom for starting this.  It's been really interesting reading.  My changes are a lot like SpecialK's and I like that there is a study on MBSR and BC. My changes in order are:

1.  Getting all the sleep I need.  (Compensates for the hot flashes!)

2.  MBSR  (Big Time!)

3.  Drug Interventions prescribed by oncologist (Femara, Zometa, vitamin D, etc.)

4.  Diet and supplements (pretty much the same as SpecialK here, too)

5.  Exercise (core exercises, yoga) 

MariannaLaFrance

I have to agree with Deanna's post. I feel like our bodies are ecosystems, and if we get out of whack, we are prone to disease.  I have tried to make my body live in as "clean" of environment as possible, i.e. not using a lot of chemicals in my home, using natural foods (usually organic), and attempting to create "balance" in my body through exercise, prayer and mindful meditation. I supplement a lot as well, but that's mainly to correct the problems I had in my intestinal tract for 5 years prior to BC diagnosis.  

Here are some other things I do:

1. 8-10 hours of sleep

2. Exercise 6 days a week (in training for 1/2 Ironman)

3. Getting sunlight without any sunscreen for at least 15-20 mins daily

4. Vitamin supplements: Multi, Vitamin D, Calcium, Magnesium, Turmeric, Fish Oil (including CLO), B Vitamins, Zinc.

5. Remembering NOT to stress about things. (very important for former stress cadets like me!)

  

elimar86861

Well, dlb823, I'm not even sure what "balance" is, let alone know how to evaluate myself for it.  Is it more like "grounded" or would you say more like "centered?"  Sorry, just messing with you.  How on Earth would you even know whether "making wise, targeted changes" prevented even one recurrence of B/C?  How could you tell prevention of recurrence came from any conscious effort and not just luck and happenstance?  If the day ever comes when a huge meta-analysis of the "balanced" and "imbalanced" is compiled, we might then be closer to a conclusion about what you are suggesting.

In the meantime, nutrition, fitness, and getting good sleep, continue to be the foundation of overall good health and as such would never be something I would discourage. 

misswim

I for one realized how stressed and out of whack my life had been for the few years before my diagnosis. I had realized that I needed to eat better and get more exercise and started to do so about 3 months prior to diagnosis- lost 25lbs and found my lump because of it. Changing my habits literally saved my life. I am about one month out of active treatment- DD ACT , which was a very taxing on my body. I changed the way I ate during chemo, adopting an organic, vegan, whole grain rich diet. I continue that now and have reached my goal weight. As soon as I was out a week from chemo and I realized it was over, something switched in my head. I realized I am responsible for what I can do to maximize mt health and (hopefully) prevent recurrance. I exercise 1 hour per day 5-6 times per week in addition to yoga, taking tamoxifen and metformin, mega-doses of Vitamin D, green tea extract as well as two cups per day of green tea, and 20 mg Melatonin as well.

I am still tired from treatment, but honestly, I feel better than I ever did pre-diagnosis. I will continue this lifestyle because it makes me feel so good, and if it keeps my cancer at bay, that will be a wonderful bonus.

I still struggle with sleep? Anyone have any sleep tips?

Great thread!

SpecialK

Sleep is the one area that I struggle with.  I do not want to start down the road with sleep medications.  I seemed to be doing better, but recently have had difficulty again both falling asleep and staying asleep.  I think that reaching the end of fills have made my TE's uncomfortable and it is interfering with falling asleep.  I also have enough aching from Femara/Herceptin that I keep changing positions in bed to try to get comfortable.  I have a pretty squishy bed so it is making me feel like the Princess and the Pea!  I have found that a warm bath or shower and reading help me. My DH just put dimmer switches on our bedside lamps last weekend - now I don't have to reach over to turn off the lamp, I can just slide the dimmer.  Is that not the best?

Kay_G

I will chime in as well. I used to be a complete unbeliever in organic food, filtering your water and all that stuff. I read the Anti Cancer Book, and his analysis and explanations really made sense to me. And I do agree with you Eli, it is not only cancer, but would improve health in all ways. I am trying to buy organic of the dirty 12 fruits and veggies, buying organic milk and meat when possible and cutting back on meats and fats and sugar. I am also exercising. I think this is all good for all health, but I do believe it will lower my risk of recurrence. If I recur any way, I will console myself by saying I would have recurred sooner without the changes. And if I am kidding myself, I have done that before.



As far as the drinking goes, I am not as strong a believer in that. I am not a drinker, haven't been since my early 20's, so I am not saying this to kid myself. I have been under 3 drinks a week for decades. My problem is that you can find cross relationships between things, but they don't always indicate causality. I took a class once where they explained that you can look for a relationship between crime and the number of policemen. In NYC, there are lots of policemen and lots of crime. In some small town in Iowa, there are very few policemen and very little crime. That info might make you say more policemen cause more crime, but we all know that is not true. I wonder if the people who drink more, have something else in common that makes them more likely to get cancer. Maybe they are more likely to be overweight or less likely to exercise and that is really the link, not the alcohol. Or maybe they eat less healthy diets or whatever. Or maybe it's just the sugar in the alcohol that is the problem. I just find it ironic that the alcohol in my diet is the one area I have always been very low with and it is the only life style thing my docs have all told me about. No one told me to cut back on red meats, sugars or fats, but they all said to cut back on alcohol. If I go through most weeks without a drink any way, there isn't much to cut back on.



Dlb823, I know what you're saying sounds crazy to some, but I get what you mean and agree with you. I think it may be different for everyone, but I think something got out of balance to let the cancer grow in almost all cases.

Outfield

Kay, I eat mainly organic as well.  Part of my reasons are political, and what I really try to do is eat organic and local, from farmers I know a little.

My mom has talked to me about the "dirty dozen."  I guess I see little sense in picking an even number like 12, other than using it to be a catchy headline for an article or news release.  Many things don't fall into black/white categories, and wherever you set a threshold the threshold is often there because that's where somebody chose to put it, not because it's a natural cut-off. BMI, blood pressure, ?alcohol, a lot of things are like that.    

So I just try to do the best I can, try to do most of the things mentioned in this thread.  Don't meditate as much as I want to; MBSR was great.  Even if it makes no difference at all for my risk of recurrence, it's a good thng.  Exercise, but not as much as if I could just go out and run or walk (bad joints).  Eat well, but not as well as if I weren't getting up at night eating bran flakes because of Ambien.  It's all complicated.  We do the best we can.  

If I do have a recurrence, I don't want to be kicking myself about any of this.  I don't think I would, I think I'm working pretty hard to live a healthy lifestyle.  And while I find Elimar's post thoughtful and thought-provoking, I disagree on several points.  

First, meta-analysis are tricky.  They are often not great science and a way to get published without doing the original work.  So they are often hard to trust.  Second, there are a TON of basic science and small studies looking at factors that may/may not affect recurrence.  If you start reading that at the level of publication (start with a PubMed search), there's a lot of confusing and conflicting information.  Of course, basic science and small studies are also untrustable for decisions at the whole person level.  But it's a start to a thought process.   

Yes, breast cancer occurs through all demographics, no matter how you slice people up into categories.  But it's also true that it hits some categories harder than others, that recurrence hits some categories harder than others.  All I can do - how could I do more? - is try to maximize my chance of being in those lower-risk categories.  With the changes people have mentioned here - haven't seen anything risky or crazy - why would I not do that?   

Kay_G

You're probably right about the dirty dozen, and when ever I can I buy organic if possible. But it does make sense to me that something like apples or spinach where you're eating the outside part that would have been exposed to pesticides would have more of a benefit to having organic vs. something like an orange or cantaloupe that you're not eating the outside. I don't want to just blindly accept things, I want to be able to understand them and why something would be more beneficial than something else. Alcohol makes no sense to me (maybe because I barely drink any way and resent doctors that won't seem to believe that and keep telling me about it), unless it is just the sugar and empty calories in it. Also, I have a lot of alcoholics and big drinkers in the family, and me, the non-drinker is the only one who ended up with cancer. But this could just be dumb luck and an anomaly. My mil apparently said back when Nixon killed McGovern, I don't know how McGovern lost, everyone I know voted for him.



I also won't kick myself if I have a recurrence because I am doing what I can and to do more would lower my QOF beyond what I am willing to live with.

elimar86861

outfield & kay,   Alcohol, has never been examined in a randomized controlled trial.  I doubt it ever will be.  That goes for every dietary and nutritional choice already mentioned here. Until research offering incontrovertible findings, the best we have are meta-analysis or cohort studies. The reason the doctors keep harping about the alcohol is because findings were presented two years ago at the San Antonio B/C Symposium, and they suggested a correlation. 

Kay, you mentioned cutting back on fats and sugars.  Yes, keeping extra weight off is supposed to lower risk of recurrence.  Eating organic?  Who knows?  There is even less evidence on that than there is on alcohol.  You are choosing to aceept one premise, yet reject the other.  You offer your family as a negative example of the alcohol/cancer link.  While you may have a large family, the study I was referencing was of nearly 2,000 women with B/C and their drinking habits.

Here's some more thoughtful and thought provoking commentary:  Anyone can include or eliminate a number of things from their lifestyles and have a positive outcome, and yes, that includes things of a spiritual or metaphysical nature.  But how is that any different from someone in a clinical trial who receives a placebo yet shows a positive response?  I am not trying to challenge anyone's right to free will and choice...do whatever you want; nor challenge any faith-based beliefs.  I am just trying to address this in a common sense manner.

I found an article on the American Cancer Society website that is a pretty good illustration of the opinion I am putting forth:

What are the risks for breast cancer?

elimar86861

KcandJsMom,  The article (link above) does have a section on B/C risks and lifestyle choices.

Claire_in_Seattle

Hi Ladies...

Prior to diagnosis, I already ate a ton of fruits and veggies.  In fact, my ex used to complain that I served him too many!!!  I try to buy fresh and local where possible.  Some of this is organic, but not always.  We have wonderful winter veggies here in the NW.  So right now, I am eating carrots, winter squash, kale, chard, and parsnips among other wonderful stuff.

Big changes I have made as I moved past treatment:

1. Vitamin D and Calcium.  I needed to do this anyway.
2. Exercise.  I was already on this one, but now am much more disciplined.  I need this for weight management as I love to eat.
3. Daily aspirin.  No, this has not been tested in a clinical trial (who would fund?) but the evidence in observational studies points ot a substantial benefit.

I decided that I like wine too much to mend my evil ways.  Also, the evidence appears to indicate that it's a zero sum game between BC recurrence and heart disease.  (Michelle Holmes' comments at the same BC conference....no difference in "overall mortality".)

I did not give up full fat dairy, sweets, or tea/coffee.  I don't eat sweets every day, but when I do, I want the real thing.  I use butter or olive oil for cooking.  (All was just fine during my regular physical with my internist last year.)

I did tell my oncologist that their "recommendation" to eat popcorn in lieu of sweets just doesn't cut it.  One piece of first class chocolate in lieu of a slice of cake might.

Not about preventing recurrence.....but this experience has made me even more grateful for the life ahead of me.  Not a moment to waste, and I intend to enjoy this time to the fullest.

To me, that has been the real lesson. - Claire

Kay_G

Eli, I agree, everyone needs to do what is best for them. I listen and read and decide for myself if something makes sense. The arguments made in the anti cancer books for organic products make sense to me. Prior to reading that, even after getting cancer, I did not buy organic ever. I didn't think it was worth paying one extra penny. No one has given me an explanation as to why alcohol consumption increases risk for cancer, just shown there is a correlation which I explained above could really be other reasons. I suspect people who drink more alcohol probably tend to eat less healthy than people who drink more alcohol. I tend to think this is the reason for more cancers. Or maybe it is just the sugar in the alcohol that causes more cancer. I just want to hear an explanation, not just a correlation. And I already don't drink, so I am already covered any way. I am certainly not advocating for people to go out and drink, if it came across that way I apologize. I just want to hear an explanation of why alcohol consumption increases risk of cancer. BTW, there is another thread started a few days ago where a study showed that while alcohol consumption increases risk of getting cancer, it decreases risk of recurrence. If you want to look at it, it's in the stage 3 forum and is called something about slouchfest. You can find a study that shows almost anything you want, that's why I want to understand why something is good orbad. And you're correct, I do pick and choose somewhat about this because I haven't seen an explanation of why stress promotes cancer, yet I do believe that contributes. What can I say, I am quirky, but I admit it.

pebee

Dilbert this week had a great panel on causation and causality.  I actually cut it out for a course that I teach.  And, I agree with the meta analysis info - when you try to combine several studies sometimes the data gets muddled statistically.

I was a member of the "good whole food, a glass of wine a month" club and got BC.  And, as Elimar mentions - this diease hits a wide variety of people. I am very frustrated as every time a "reduces a women's chance of getting BC by x%" shows up - I was doing that a long time ago.  And, I got it anyway.

My worry is that recurrance is the new blame the victim.  If it comes back, not only did you do something wrong, you kept doing it. You can protest all that you want - but the thought is that you were doing something - like sneaking ding dongs or drinks in the closet that cause this to come back.

elimar86861

kay, I can't give you the reason for the conclusions drawn on alcohol, but it is not just from a single study.  One thought was that it changes the way our bodies metabolize estrogen.  (That's why you sometimes see a TN woman write, "Well, I'm safe then." )  But they don't know.  I don't know.  However, I was questioning why you are choosing to make some changes with dietary items that even less study has been done on?  Yes, I do think that is quirky.  Even more, I think a lot of what people "change" is based on suggestibility and the desire to feel like they are doing something to keep the cancer away.  To have some control on cancer.  It's human nature.  I get it.  But also question it.

Don't get me wrong.  Most of the "changes" are not things that will do people harm (except maybe mega-doses of some supplements) so if someone prefers organic blueberries, that is their business.  As far as the wine, I'm like kay in that I rarely even had a drink, but still got B/C anyway.  I won't be putting any effort into a change there myself, since I was and still am within their recommended guidelines.  I'm waiting to hear something definite about soy, and if I do, I'll probably try to conform to that.  The jury is still out on so much.

Finally, I should mention that kay and I have been buddies for a while (which, I realize, might make less of you want to befriend me.)  Winky, wink! 

elimar86861

pebee,  Oh crap!   You mean no more ding dongs either?   What if I just wolf one down in plain sight?  I think it might be the sneaking, not the eating.

Yeah, I don't like that whole "blame the victim" deal either.  I don't feel like I know very much of what to do or not to do.  I said, "Why, why, why?" the first time; and if it comes back I'll say the same, but who can answer me with any certainty.  They will just guess I did something to get myself in trouble again.