Does diet really matter in breast cancer?

sam52

I believe the stress (and by that I mean severe, unrelenting stress over a period of many years) may only be one contributory factor.Couple that with other 'risk' factors (such as estrogen dominance) and this could be the reason why some of us develop bc.

jenrio

Wallycat said it.   WHO CARES what caused it?   

Was AIDS patients asked to change their own lifestyle post-dx?   No.  They had 1 year prognosis 20 years ago.  Now they have near normal life expectancy.    See my blog for details.   In contrast, metastatic bc 20 years ago had a few months life expectancy, now have a few years life expectancy.

BC patients need to stop worrying about what you did or eat or whatever, but ask for the cure, fund for the cure and research for the cure.  Support metavivor or metastatic breast cancer research and join clinical trials.

http://www.bcrfcure.org/action_topics_cure_innovations.html

http://www.bcrfcure.org/inv_survpart.html

Try earmark your donation to go straight to scientists/graduate students or specific research.

Anonymous

cp418, of course nutrition matters significantly (not strong enough word) when we become educated about methyl donors, peptides, etc. 

We are what we eat and, more importantly, what we absorb 

"A methyl donor is simply any substance that can transfer a methyl group [a carbon atom attached to three hydrogen atoms (CH3)] to another substance. Methylation is a biochemical process that is essential to life, health, and regeneration of body cells. Vitamins, hormones, neurotransmitters, enzymes, nucleic acids (DNA and RNA), and antibodies depend on the transfer of methyl groups to complete their synthesis. Scientists suspect that proper methylation of DNA may prevent the expression of harmful genes, such as cancer genes. It's quite likely that our body's ability to methylate declines with age, contributing to the aging process, and therefore supplementation may well be beneficial"

"Peptides play a crucial role in fundamental physiological and biochemical functions of life. For decades now, peptide research is a continuously growing field of science.
Peptide is a molecule formed by joining two or more amino acids. When the number of amino acids is less than about 50 these molecules are named peptides while larger sequences are referred to as proteins.
The amino acids are coupled by a peptide bond, a special linkage in which the nitrogen atom of one amino acid binds to the carboxyl carbon atom of another.
Peptides (proteins) are present in every living cell and possess a variety of biochemical activities. They appear as enzymes, hormones, antibiotics, receptors, etc.
Synthetic peptides may be useful in structure-function studies of polypeptides, as peptid hormones and hormone analogues, in the preparation of cross-reacting antibodies, and in the design of novel enzymes"

ETA, sorry forgot to link:

DNA Methylation, Cancer Susceptibility, and Nutrient Interactions 

A wealth of evidence points to the diet as one of the most important modifiable determinants of cancer risk. A large number of bioactive components have been identified in food that are protective at different stages of cancer formation. Diet has been implicated in many pathways involved in carcinogenesis, including apoptosis, cell cycle control, differentiation, inflammation, angiogenesis, DNA repair, and carcinogen metabolism. These are also processes that are likely regulated by DNA methylation and other epigenetic events. Epigenetic events constitute an important mechanism by which dietary components can selectively activate or inactivate gene expression. This review will focus on how dietary components can affect DNA methylation and thus cancer susceptibility. 

http://ebm.rsmjournals.com/content/229/10/988.full 

Nutrients can reverse or change epigenetic phenomena such as DNA methylation and histone modifications, thereby modifying the expression of critical genes associated with physiologic and pathologic processes, including embryonic development, aging, and carcinogenesis. (Enjoy the 75 refs)

http://advances.nutrition.org/content/1/1/8.full

Methyl donors in the diet and responses to chemical carcinogens

http://www.ajcn.org/content/61/3/659S.full.pdf

Alterations of DNA methylation associated with abnormalities of DNA methyltransferases in human cancers during transition from a precancerous to a malignant state. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17893234

DNA methylation-dependent silencing of CST6 in human breast cancer cell lines 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17043665

LtotheK

Add me to the "yeah, whatever" list on this one.  Longtime vegetarian, lean, athletic, blah, blah, blah.

Komen's risk calculator shows clearly that dense breasts and not having kids are strong risk factors.  What I eat is currently understood to be a moderate-weak risk reducer.

I will say this:  I think stress played a big role, I'm a type A with a very stressful job, and I was being severely attacked at my job two years before I found my lump.  However, I think I agree with my doctor.  It's not one thing, it's a combo.  We'd all love to believe if we cut sugar and reduce stress it'll all be fine.  But the truth is, stress + dense breasts + environment + bad luck probably all played key roles.

LtotheK

On another note:  what is good for the goose is not good for the gander in pre vs. post-menopausal women.  Weight is thought to be a risk REDUCER in younger patients.  There are many aspects of this disease that seem to be literally the exact opposite outcome predictor depending on menopausal status...

lanagraves

I agree that BC is a vicious, sneaky beast, so I definitely do not mean to minimize it in any way. It is devastating. I just have to keep hoping, searching for glimmers of progress. It's the only way I can continue to spend my days living instead of dying.

Anonymous

I find it very interesting the number of posters on BCO who say they're athletes and can't help but wonder how significant this is.  As far as risk factors, they need to be revised IMO.  I see way too many women on BCO diagnosed while pregnant, while breastfeeding, and who have more than one child. One of my aunts had 10 children, yes 10, and died of BC.

"while running 70 miles a week is preferable to never breaking a sweat in one's lifetime, unless you adhere to a perfectly compensatory diet crafted and monitored by sports nutritionists, high-volume exercise, year after year, is surprisingly bad for the body. Consistent intense exercise significantly increases the generation of free radicals, which, in turn, cause cellular damage and amplify the chances of developing cancer and heart disease. Due to this unfortunate side effect, high mileage runners don't live any longer than sedentary folk, so says my doctor, and if i want to continue living like i do - running as much as i want, staying fashionably thin year round and eating for taste rather than for nutrient content - i better get on board with a supplement regimen, however expensive that can compensate for my unhealthy lifestyle"

Editors letter titled "Dietary Rx" from the July issue of "Inside Triathlon" magazine.

jenrio

I wrote a review for 2 books by long term MBC survivors (20 years and 8 years).   They share a lot of similarities, including destressing and exercising every day for 45 minutes.  At least one of them did a special diet.   Both of them sadly eventually passed away, so exercise/eating right/destress won't save you from MBC or death.    Though these might all have helped them live way longer than average.

Only a MBC cure would save us from MBC or death.  Till there's a cure, let's not start blaming ourselves or each other for being fat, being thin, being stressed out, being eating sweets, or whatever.

SelenaWolf

Very good comment... I with the ladies on oestrogen.  I'm sure I was peri-menopausal beginning around age 40-42 with wildly fluctuating- or high oestrogen levels because - for the first time since I was a teenager - I was, suddenly, dealing with monthly, hormonal breakouts.  In addition, my periods became very heavy and troublesome; a lot of pain, migraines, horrible PMS that I had never suffered from before.  Moreover, I suffered two nervous breakdowns within the last ten years and had been prescribed Paxil for a certain amount of time.  I've read a few (albiet out-dated) articles on a possible link between Paxil and higher breast cancer risk.

So, oestrogen+stress+Paxil=breast cancer diagnosis

Makes sense to me.  However, how on earth does one eliminate stress from one's life?  'Tis impossible!  There's always something stressful going on...

kestrelgurl

Maud,

I absolutely believe that my years of endurance training did not make me healthier over the long haul. In the midst of Ironman training I knew I was beyond the point of diminishing returns and worried about oxidative stress but didn't stop what I was doing. As a coach, one of the things I try to impart to my athletes is the need to recognize the cost of their endurance training.....it's a tough sell.

Did it "cause" my cancers? I don't think so. Did it allow a predispostion to take hold and develop? I do believe it did. I consider this generation of endurance athletes (those who train/race regularly at ultra distances) to be the guinea pigs for long term health effects. There are many examples of all kinds of career ending health problems in ultra athletes.

wallycat

I did have long miles logged daily, even though I never ran marathons, and I often wonder if that contributed to my dx later on.  I know it did a number on my knees.

Kenneth Cooper (father of aerobics) had a chapter in one of his books about how many of his long-distance running friends developed some sort of cancer.

I guess as with everything, moderation.

We all tend to think that if some is good, more is better and just as maybe (for some) NO alcohol is not much better than a little, we either over do it or become teetotalers; vegans or carnivores; supplement over-dosers or all-natural-no-supplement types.  

I agree ...men are not scrutinized over why they got it.  Ovarian cancer patients are not scrutinized.  Colon cancer patients are not scrutinized.  Maybe because breast cancer is so pervasive, people are desperate to try to quash the fears of getting it...in the end only frustrating, scaring and still not resolving why.

Anonymous

Kestrelgurl, I have no doubt that research in nutritional sciences with its countless branches, nutritional immunology, namely, has been expanding exponentially thanks to the world of athletics. Fascinating to say the least 

Anonymous

Talking about peptides in my post above - does nutrition matter ?  I answer a resounding YES and so does the newest, most up-to-date research

ASCO: AE37 Peptide Vaccine May Help Prevent Breast Cancer Recurrence

AE37 is not the only peptide vaccine in development in the adjuvant setting. Galena BioPharma's NeuVax (E75) is currently in phase III trials for the treatment of various cancers. NeuVax is also derived from the HER2 protein but is MHC Class I restricted. Thus far, there is evidence of prevention of disease recurrence with NeuVax as well. Another vaccine, GP2 (which like E75 is a HER2-derived vaccine), is being developed by Antigen Express. 

http://www.cancernetwork.com/conference-reports/asco2012/breast-cancer/content/article/10165/2081997

painterly

I am a bit disheartened right now with all the talk about diet and exercise to reduce recurrence.

Like many have said before me, I had a good diet and did lots of exercise and still got breast cancer. That is very true for me. I was almost a vegetarian with only a tad of meat on my plate of mainly veges, and I love the cruciferous types, plus I never liked desserts except for fruit.

When I was diagnosed and read all the reports about good diet and exercise, I thought how is it possible to increase what I already do. So, instead of having 3/4 of a plate full of veges for two meals per day, I included breakfast. 3 meals a day of veges. Okay I thought that is what it must take for someone like me who already eats tons of veges and loves fruit. And as for exercise, I play golf, swim walk, garden and always on the move, hate to sit still for any length of time. Plus I am 5'5" 130 lbs, so no excess there. Oh, and I gave up milk. I loved my milk and have very strong bones presumably from a life time of milk drinking! I also threw out my makeup, full of chemicals, yuk, I want to reduce my recurrence risk.

So here I am today with a new primary in opposite breast after 3 1/2 years of a plant based diet. Increasing all those veges did nothing for me. All I can say is that those in authority say diet and exercise work because there are so many people with lousy diets who get diabetes, high blood pressure etc. which can be easily fixed by diet, but when it comes to reducing ones risk of recurrence, cancer is an unpredictable disease and we do not know when it will strike and to whom.

Which brings me to Dr. David Shriver (Sp) Anti Cancer diet. I read it, ticked off what I was already doing right but yet brings me back to my thoughts about this unpredictable disease. He was disease free for 20 years. He could have been disease free anyway without his wonderful dietary lifestyle.

Since my diagnosis I have had many opportunities to chat with women at the breast clinic where I go. My ears were always on the alert for women with recurrence and I met a number of women who had recurrence 15 or 20 years later. Interesting. This is why I think cancer is unpredictable, there are some women who will recur soon after their first diagnosis and others many years later. Cancer is unpredictable.

Here's something interesting that I just learned. At my golf club, one of our members smokes heavily, has a terrible smoker's cough,  drinks to excess, doesn't care about what she eats and is  very overweight. Did she get cancer? No. But guess who in her family got it? Her husband! He recently had a mastectomy, and is now on arimidex. He was slim and was somewhat fussy as far as eating habits were concerned, i.e. he didn't particularly like the rubbish his wife was eating. Cancer is unpredictable! And look at Navratilova the tennis player, she was shocked that she would get it with her lifestyle of a good eating pattern with tons of exercise. And what about figure skater Dorothy Hammell, she was stunned to get this disease.

So am I going to shift down to 2 meals per day of veges instead of beginning the day with them?No. I won't do that, I really do like starting my day with a green veggie smoothie. I do believe that feeding the body with nutritious food gives us energy to keep the body functioning properly and exercise helps the heart pump oxygenized blood throughout the body to sustain our health.  But as far as getting cancer is concerned it is unpredictable it will strike whomever it pleases. 

wallycat

I still say cancer is a crap-shoot, for many of the reaons you mentioned, Painterly.

When I worked as a dietitan, I always asked my patients what they were willing to change and not regret doing should the science not pan out.  

My onco in Wisconsin and I had an interesting conversation one visit...

He asked: would you be angrier if you did all the "right" things and ended up with cancer/recurrence, or more angry if you decided to do as you please (eat how you felt, stop meds if the side effects were bad, etc...)  and it came back.

He was shocked with my answer (and implied I was in the minority).

I said I would be angrier if I did all the right things and it came back.  Guess most people think they'd be angrier if they "didn't give it their all." 

Painterly, I am so sorry you are dealing with the beast again.  Is it the same er/pr + and grade 1?? or something different?  And were you on tamoxifen previously or ??

Best to you.  My anger on cancer dx waxes and wanes, but the confoundedness of this disease is ever present.

sweetbean

Painterly, that really sucks - I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this again.

elimar86861

When a thread like this gets posted, it always ends up being a retread of older threads that have been around since I joined BCO.  Some for, some against.  Yada, yada.  Or as LtotheK so aptly put it, "Yeah, whatever."

Personally, I don't care for articles which include paragraphs similar to this one:

"According to the American Institute for Cancer Research, "no single food or food component can protect you against cancer by itself. But scientists believe that the combination of foods in a predominantly plant-based diet may. There is evidence that the minerals, vitamins and phytochemicals in plant foods could interact in ways that boost their individual anti-cancer effects. This concept of interaction, where 1 + 1 = 3, is called synergy."

That bold face is mine.  Way to CYA there, scientists.  The author does not even qualify that as SOME scientists. 

Maybe I'm just questioning the semantics here, but I really don't care what a scientist believes...tell me instead what they know, what they have found out as scientific fact.  Short of that, I can live without all the junk articles like this one.

sweetbean

Yes, even though I still believe that diet can really help prevent recurrence or slow progression, it certainly doesn't help everyone.  I guess because all of our cancers are different.  In a way the argument about diet is a bit like the one about chemo.  Chemo only benefits some people, but we don't know who those people are, so we pretty much give it to everyone who is eligible.  Same thing with diet - it may not benefit everyone, but we don't know who those people are, so we don't know who to tell "Oh, definitely do this" or "Don't bother - go to Wendy's."  The difference between chemo and diet is that a good, plant-based diet has no harsh side effects or long-term risks.   But it definitely requires a long-term commitment.

Painterly, I'm glad you are sticking with the diet - I lift my morning green smoothie in your honor.  I truly believe it will, at the very least, help you recover from your surgeries and treatments. 

painterly

Thanks Ladies for your kind comments!

This post is no longer about diet but answers Wallycats questions:

This new primary is non life threatening DCIS in the opposite breast left side. It is 1cm in size but I don't know the grade, presumably after surgery I will know all the pertinent details. BS said removal pronto as it could become invasive sometime after 5 years or so. I would not like to keep the bugger in anyway and do not understand the watch and wait scenario of another thread I was reading because we really don't know if there is any invasive cells until the final pathology comes back. BS is assuming it is pure DCIS and is in agreement with me opting out of radiation but taking the wide margins for good clearance. I did radiation last time but am a little afraid for the left side.

I am reading "The intelligent patient guide to breast cancer" with info compiled by four oncologists. I was pleased to come across on page 135 that radiation can be opted out if the patient meets the following criteria: less than 1.5cm in size and low to medium grade (which I will know after the pathology is done) with 1 cm margin. I am pleased with this book as I will bring it to show my BS who has already made notes that I want the wide margins since I won't have the benefit of radiation.

Last time I had a very tiny 0.6cm IDC with a question mark node which was tested twice but remained inconclusive for isolated tumour cell possibility but clear otherwise. BS called it clear but onc. disagreed. I had chemo highly recommended by onc which obviously did nothing to prevent a new primary. I have permanent side effects but thought okay I can live with those if the beast doesn't return. Also on these boards, a young mother, BCMom of 3 was undertreated and she died, so I often think of her which kept me sane about having chemo which is considered overtreatment now and is pretty much ruled out for early stage by some oncologists due to the oncotesting and recent studies from San Antonio.

 I also had arimidex for a little over 6 months but was taken off due to rapid heart rate, Another was tried  but ditto response. I was also recommended tamoxifen, but my knee went out and since I do a lot of sports my knee had to be held in a brace and I was afraid of a blood clot. Plus I found out that there could have been clots because on my father's side ...they had terrible varicose veins in their legs. He passed away a long time ago. My mother would have been able to tell me but she passed on as well about 5 years ago. My sister who inherited the terrible legs hasn't had a blood clot yet but is high risk for it as far as I know.

All going well, it will be DCIS lumpectomy and I will take the dreaded tamoxifen and hope for the best. Incidentally, tamox. is being used as a preventative for women who are high risk but do not have breast cancer. So maybe it can't be that bad after all.

Thanks for the smoothie toast Sweetbean. You are right, of course, that a good diet helps pull us through surgeries a lot faster. When I went for my pre-op testing, a doctor said to me when she greeted me, "Oh thank God, a fit person for a change" hahahaha!!!

I came across a list of the cruciferous vegetables and learned that if we eat too many of them it depletes the iodine in our bodies and that supplementation is necessary to avoid thyroid problems. Holy smoke, I thought could I have caused this by over eating my cruciferous veges??? I started with the iodine, but only a week ago. I will look for the article.

painterly

Here's the link I posted about the Tamoxifen use for prevention in women who do not have breast cancer:

http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topic/788791?page=1#idx_1

And a link to  comments on cruciferous veges/iodine defiency. 

 http://renegadehealth.com/blog/2009/08/07/the-real-effect-of-raw-cruciferous-vegetables-on-the-thyroid 

wallycat

Painterly, thank you for your reply.

All the best to you on this journey.....to us all.

Anonymous

Just to chime in with my perspective....I have been an active, non-smoker all my life and was raised on good nutrition, lots of veggies, whole grains, and fruit in place of most sweets. I switched to a vegan diet about 8 months ago (impressed with "Forks over Knives" DVD and "The China Study"). No known family history, low risk in the age of menses, childbirth and natural menopause..........and yes I still got BC. I don't blame myself, my lifestyle, my hx or anything else.....as some have said here already, it is a crap shoot.



But will I change my plant-based diet now? No! I still believe that a plant based diet improves health. "lower" risk of many health issues is not the same as 100% prevention...but either is chemo, hormone therapy, or surgery. I will enjoy my glass of wine when I want it....a cookie when I feel like it......but I am all for reducing risk, knowing there is still no known cure!

kaza

I think stress contributes very highly regarding breast cancer. I had acute stress 5yrs before diagnosis, high level of stress continually for this time, i have heard this from other ladies it seems stress could cause us to become low in ourselves and this horrible disease is able to take hold. I feel it depends greatly on personality aswell, those of us who worry about others and do not put ourselves first sometimes become ill. So making time for ourselves we are special too. After diagnosis i do now put my needs first also, so thats a positive. Best wishes to all you special ladiesx 

camillegal

Painterly I'm sorry about what u have to go thru

I believe a healthy diet is just plain good for u along with excercise. So I can no debate over that who could.

But remember the runner a few yrs. back who wrote books for healthy heart and taught and did all the right things and died in his 50's of a heart attack.

All the years of research and little is really known about BC and how u get it.  There can't be one factor or they would have found it. There are to many reasons and some is just guess work--look at some people can't take some chemos and others can tolerate it and it does well for them? so I never said why me I said why not me.  Who am I not to get it.  As most of us said---it's a crapshoot.

Anonymous

Kaza, you are so right, thank you for reminding me to put myself first and stop the worry wart machine 

Has it ever occurred to those who question the vital importance of nutrition and who respond 'yes, I've always been fit and done this and that, etc. and still got cancer', that maybe if you had not done all the right things your prognosis might be xxx times worse than it is ?  

Could it be that all of the healthy choices and lifestyle you have chosen and adhered to religiously actually prevented your cancer from progressing to a more serious status ? That's exactly how I perceive my grade 1.

If nutrition has no importance according to some, tell me exactly how long you can go without food (nutrient, chemicals that nourish your body, brain, nerves) without dying.

Saying that nutrition has no value is like saying water : not important, oxygen: not important, I can do very well without.  I can choose to eat chips all day long and don't expect that there will eventually be a serious break down of all body systems.

Edited for typos 

camillegal

Maude in a way I agree, but who knows my sister who totally lives with healthy choices and always excercises and has regular checkups doesn't smoke has one glas of red wine a day takes the right vitamins has Stage IV--four months after me--went right into it So Altho we all pretty mch believe in a healthy life choice does cancer know that?

LtotheK

The concept "catching it early" or forestalling Stage IV, whether with vigilant screening, or lifestyle choices is questionable.  Cancer still has the medical community completely stumped.  Many studies indicate the disease "is what it is" at the time of diagnosis, it's genetic makeup and aggressiveness very much out of our control.

There is science behind these ideas.  What I find exciting is I think they will understand a lot more relatively soon.  Maybe DIM will replace Tamoxifen, there is a study at Mayo Clinic.

Anyone who says nutrition has no status is kidding themselves.  But it doesn't have the exact cause and effect we all wish it would for everything that ails us.

exbrnxgrl

Although I think a healthy diet and lifestyle are important for overall well being there are no guarantees. My sister passed away at age 50 after a 4 month battle with uterine cancer. 4 months! She had spent more than 30 years eating and living clean and green, including all of her personal care and cleaning products. An avid hiker and outdoors woman , she was also a registered nurse and marriage/family therapist who loved her work. Go figure. I led a fairly clean lifestyle too, though not even close to hers and was diagnosed stage IIB. Less than 3 months later, quite by accident, a bone met was found. No BRCA mutation. I will continue to live a healthy lifestyle but if I want chocolate or a margarita every now and then, I will. I have not and will not spend a single minute trying to figure out how I got bc. BTW, this past Monday would have been my sister's 52'nd birthday. She was my younger sister. Caryn

Allagashmaggie

I stumbled onto this forum (thread) as still, 10 months after being diagnosed, I wonder what I did wrong.  I have been thin all my life, have not particulary paid attention to eating organic or thinking about pesticides in my food but ate what I wanted and remained in my 120s.  Have been active and was told by my oncologist that besides bc, I was in "excellent" health.  So why did this happen?  I still  struggle with that even though I know I will never know.  But....I do have to agree about stress.  We had made a move 3 years prior to my diagnosis that was quite sad for me and I was having big separation issues.  I wonder some times if that played a part in it.  My breast surgeon told me this could have been brewing for 5 to 7 years. 

I do believe that trying to eat healthy and staying in some form of good shape helps if a disease does strike with all the treatments but I have resumed my usual lifestyle which does include a glass of wine before dinner.  I know that is a risk factor that I can control but at the same time, it is a pleasure in life I have not been willing to give up.  I may pay the price but I have said many times to friends and family, this is a crap shoot.   A year before I was diagnosed I knew someone who could not possibly be any more physically fit or eat better.  She told me that she too asked every doctor she came to what caused her bc and got no answer.

Oh yes, by the way, my mom is a 26 year survivor and so I do have family history.  At the same time my doctor told me my cancer may have nothing to do with hers.  It was 26 years ago and my mom knows very little about her type of tumor like we know these days. 

I want to prevent a recurrence but I want to live my life too and if that means a glass of wine or a pork chop every now and then, so be it.

Allagashmaggie

elimar86861

The topic is:  Does diet really matter in breast cancer?  Maud, I don't believe anyone made comments that nutrition had "no value" or was of "no importance" in this thread.   I'm not sure how your coments tie in.

Eating well and exercising is one way to keep at a healthy weight.  Keeping at a healthy weight has been shown to lower recurrence of B/C.  Therefore, eating well and exercising can result in lower recurrence of B/C.  That is basic deductive reasoning.  But that is a long way from saying we can eat certain items which offer special protection, or that a food source has been found to be curative. 

There Is No Cure. That includes all existing treatments, all existing meds, and all existing foods and nutritional items; as we know them today.