An Alternative approach to Stage IV Health and choices

luv_gardening

That's life, I hope you're still reading.  It's important to recognise that stress is everywhere in our life and the more human interaction we have, the more disagreements we will have.  It's impossible to control external matters and especially other people and those who are most at peace are those who recognise that peace comes from within, and quickly recover from any perceived attack.  When we act defensively or attack others that is inviting trouble and it's best just to shrug our shoulders and ignore the insults.  

As for the ones who have left BCO through "bullying", I saw an equal amount of bullying on both sides and was even attacked by two of the alternative ladies who both mistook what I said to be supporting their attackers though I've always made it clear that I take a neutral position.  Neither of those ladies post here any more, yet if they hadn't reacted so strongly to perceived insults they would still be here receiving support and friendship. 

Whether you study philosophy, psychology, Eastern religion, Western religion or new age, at a deeper level, they believe that to take offence is more harmful than to give offence.  The golden rule doesn't imply that we can stop applying it because someone else broke it, and when we can learn to shrug things off life gets so much easier and calmer.

If people choose to interrupt our threads without adding anything useful, just be respectful and recognise they are coming from a place of fear.  Since doctors can't answer those questions Imp asked  so well in the fungal theory thread, (can you cure cancer? etc) and we are all entitled by law to refuse treatment and eat a healthy diet, I take strength from that knowledge.

I'm still certain this is the most exciting and helpful thread I've seen since I've been reading BCO for two years and I'm sure that together we can come up with some great research and ideas that would otherwise be lost.  I think it's important that different people follow different paths as we never know which one might eventually lead to a cure, and I include conventional treatments.  I respect and encourage everyone to join in our wonderful community here at BCO.  

I respect your decision whether you take a break or leave for good and wish you well.  I felt a strong bond with you as you have similar ideas and I loved the way you approached people in difficult situations.  As Eve says, you are loved... 

Hindsfeet

I don't know if I should be posting on this thread in that I've only had early stage cancers....BUT, even those of us who are early stage are well aware that if we don't take care ourselves that we are at high risk for more serious cancer. And since stress is mentioned, I can't help but comment here

There's many variables to why cancer. Perhaps stress is the catalyst. Smoking, poor diet, sugar, chemicals, viruses, radiation poisoning, infections, fungi and other types of poisoning all contribute to cancer.  Perhaps stress is the main culpret to setting cancer into motion. I'm not referring to everyday stresses but acute and chronic stressful situations.

There is a story about a man, who was dx with TB, when it was deadly. His doctor told him to put his house in order because in a few to six months he would be dead. He left his job, and went a way for six months. During that time he rested, and just worked on three books that he wanted to get out before dying. He went back to his doctor after six months feeling pretty good. The doctor looked at his x-rays and said that he no longer had TB (without treatment) and gave him a clean bill of health.

I've often thought about this man's story, and wondered if getting away from the pressure or stress of life caused his body to heal itself? So perhaps thats-life is doing the right thing to step back and move away from anything that stresses her. I wish bco wasn't so stressful for people like her. Good to know she will continue to be a supportive group.

Lastly, when living in Boston in my mid twenties, I spoke with a man who had been doing research work on cancer at MIT. At the end of his research, I asked him what the cause of cancer is. He said Stress, and Sugar. I would have liked to read his findings or study.

luv_gardening

I agree Eve that we should do whatever reduces stress for us individually.  I'm certain that our mental outlook and stressors are a vital reason for our illnesses.  I recently took a break from BCO and came back with a renewed commitment as I realised I needed the companionship and could learn how to resist reacting to things I find upsetting here easier than in my real life where people are hard to avoid. Stress and sugar, that researcher should be promoted. Exactly my thoughts.

That's Life, I hope I can still be in touch with you though I would feel out of place in a stage IV group as I have no idea how I would feel in that situation and your challenges are so different from ours. Your new group and endeavours sound exciting and that's shown to be a vital ingredient in remission-- hope and something to work towards.

For all of us I think that learning how to handle life's inevitable stresses would be invaluable and may even save our lives and I'm hoping to start a thread that will challenge people's ideas about stress and happiness.  Meanwhile I'm working on the low energy diet thread in between gardening and trying to enjoy my life.

ango74

I have often wonder about the stress conection. 2 yrs before I was diagnosed I was at my maximum stress level.  Just thinking back to it now makes me tense up.  When I went to the Block Center they talked to me about stress reduction techniques. Meditation, taking time for your self and exercise.  I find exercise is probably the best for me but that is at times hard when the chemo makes me feel so bad.

impositive

We opened a new business and I was under great stress for 4 years prior to my diagnosis.  The six months before, I also had some personal stress.  I have no doubt it played a major roll in knocking out my immunity. 

Iwillwinthisbattle

I think this is so important!! I want traditional/ alternative/natural/whatever!!!!!!!!!! Approaches that will work for me. I have 2 kids who were adopted at ages 5 and 6 (currently 10 and 11) who I REFUSE!!!!!!'!!!!!!!!! To allow to lose another mom. Not acceptable. I must beat this horrible disease no matter what it takes.

thats-life-

ok...i tried to stay away, and take time for myself, but who am i now? this disease has changed me, redefined me forever...i kept checking in to see how everyone was!..and reading posts of pain, new fears, hope, well, (occasional cranky discussions aside) i cant leave you all!...so its back to my little bco corner...and my pages and pages of notes, and trying to put them together in some sort of order...and i will master this meditation thing  and become a really relaxed and centered person....lol...

Heidihill

Welocome back, thats-life!!!

As for notes, I don't have any and always thought it would be a good idea to have them. I have the key phrases in my head and google when I need to. My bco posts are the repository of the most important things I've come across. So I'm glad you're back as I still have a few things to add/share ;-)

Heidihill

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1323758/Can-cutting-Carbohydrates-diet-make-live-longer.html

Cutting carbs helps the body repair itself and rejuvenate. Exercise stimulates the body to produce its own anti-oxidants.

thats-life-

that was such an interesting article heidi..

as keeping up our fluids is very important, wanted to add this nice alternative to plain water, that i saw on tv last night. it is called sassy water, and helps with fluid retention:

fill a jug with:

water...add cucumber slices...lime slices...lemon slices...ginger slices..and a few mint leaves...refreshing and yum.

luv_gardening

This is how I store, arrange and highlight my notes, images, copied pages, drawings, links etc. OneNote comes with Microsoft Office and holds unlimited notebooks (left side) with your own categories (top) and tabs and sub-tabs (right side).  I can give anyone access to any one of my notebooks and share it so we can both or all make changes. I'm still only using the basic features as I've only had it a short time and need to transfer my mountains of notes from another system.

luv_gardening

That's Life, that drink sounds refreshing.  I found and bought Kale seedlings in Bunnings on my way home tonight so thanks for that tip.  Now I have to figure out how to make a rabbit proof cover for my veggies that will allow access for me.  I'll search online.

My research is going slowly as I found antioxidants to be so incredibly complex.  Heidi you mentioned the exercise aspect, then there's the mixed long and short term studies, the prospect that too many antioxidants can backfire and cause oxidative stress, the possible anti-inflammatory effects that can combine with other anti-inflammatories to cause excess bruising or bleeding.  

So far it seems that to mix up different antioxidants, especially from different foods, is better than taking single high supplements for more than a few weeks.  Melatonin may be the only one that doesn't backfire but I need to get confirmation from another source.  Also Zinc and Selenium are needed to make use of the antioxidants.

Oh well, back to my research tomorrow after several days doing other things. 

Kaara

Hello ladies!  I'm back on the site after a 10 day vacation cruise.  We met with a nutritionist/trainer while on board that promotes an alkiline diet for prevention of cancer and other diseases.  He did a basal metabolism on both me and my significant other and discovered that while my body is fairly alkiline, my partner's is very acidic, and we both could benefit from detoxification.  We purchased a product (natural) that helps with that process.  It is not ingested, but put in a bath that you soak in twice a week.  This is followed by drinking pure water and eating an alkiline diet.  This, along with the diet helps to remove the build up of toxins from the body.  The proof will be in several months when we test again to see if our acidic levels have come down.

I'm not sure that this could be used in conjunction with chemo, and I failed to ask, but I will do that.  I have not yet received my final diagnosis or started any treatment plan, so in the meantime, I'm trying to put my body in optimal condition.  I will let you know how it goes.

that's life:  I'm sorry to hear you were thinking of leaving the site.  I think that this thread is invaluable to those of us who want to explore alternatives to standard treatment, and who is to say you couldn't do both if you so desire.  I very much enjoy reading and learning from these posts.  Please continue to inspire us.   

impositive

So glad you're here that's -life! We can't give up the fight and BCO with all it's problems is still a valuable source if information.  Thank you for yours.  I too am working on that "relaxing" thing but life keeps getting in the way, lol. 

Anyway, I have heard so much about that flavored water but have yet to give it a try, even though I have the ingredients in my fridge!  Definitely going to do it!

Heidihill, that article helps to strengthen my resolve to get back to my lo-carb diet.  I have been struggling with that lately...so thank you for the article.

sweetbean

that's life, i think this thread is one of the most valuable on BCO.  I think the resources and ideas here are applicable for everyone and I am very glad that you started it.  It is an informative and respectful discussion - and we need more of those around here.  I would hate to see you leave BCO.  

Heidihill

jlw, that's an impressive screen shot. Regarding the content, I do think vigorous exercise is like a drug. My former personal trainer tried to sell me some antioxidant supplements. I told him I wanted my body to learn how to make them on its own. His eyes lit up at the concept. As for your notes, I'd love to see them, but I don't have Office. Thanks for the offer!

That is a yummy-sounding drink. Will have to try that, thats-life!

3rings

Wow I just stumbled on this thread (seldom leave the stage IV area) lots of great information hear.  I have been taking some supplements but will add Curcumin after reading these post. 

I was wondering were people go to get the vitamin C infusions?  Is this payable by insurance?  If not is it costly? 

luv_gardening

Heidi, the information about exercise training our bodies to produce more antioxidants, and that taking supplements seem to counteract that, has thrown my whole LED/high antioxidant theory.  As it happens I don't exercise enough to worry so maybe I'll stick to the supps till mid December which will be three months and then get back into exercise.  If only there was some test that showed what our antioxidant levels are.  I included the screenshot of that exercise page as I knew you'd be interested.

So for now there seems no point in starting a new thread on the diet as it's too difficult to work out the details.  All the ingredients are in this thread but I'll repeat:

1.  Eat a Low Energy Diet (LED) to deny cancer cells enough blood sugar to feed on so it will switch to glycolysis for energy.  Our normal cells can take energy in other ways that are too slow for the fast growth of cancer.

2.  Raise antioxidant levels to deny cancer cells energy from glycolysis.  Antioxidants may stop NF-kB switching our bodies to glycolysis when blood glucose is too low, cutting off it's secondary source of energy.  Antioxidants come from either:

a) training our bodies to make them by increasing to high levels of exercise as above.

b) if not exercising a lot, take high antioxidants such as Alpha Lipoic Acid, High doses of Melatonin at night, Resveratrol (may be a phytoestrogen), or if not using exercise or high supplements, then take large amounts of antioxidant foods, plus fish oil or similar, and vitamin C and E.

3) Take zinc and selenium to ensure antioxidants are utilised.

4)  If not already taking anti-inflammatories such as aspirin, other pain killers or arthritis medications, then add one.  Care must be taken not to lower blood clotting ability too much so watch out for excess bruising or nose bleeds, but a little bruising may mean your levels are right.

Note... All four steps are necessary,  leaving any out will allow cancer to flourish, but the atioxidants can be raised any way mentioned, exercise OR supps OR diet..

This is experimental only as it has been shown to starve primary cancers in mice but has yet to be tested in humans.  So many alternative anti-cancer regimes include low or no processed foods, high nutrients, juices etc.  They seem to be low energy, high antioxidant naturally and that may be why some people claim to have had complete "unexplained" remissions.  Unexplained basically means that doctors can't take credit either because they have not administered any medical treatments or the prognosis with any medication is extremely poor, so they can't explain why the patient has improved or recovered, and unfortunately the patient is unable to explain other than something about the alternative regime must have worked.

So my proposal is that we need to at least try these diets to see if they help, especially when medicine can't cure us.  If some of us do have unexpected good results such as improved blood tests or scans, then we can compare notes to see if a particular regime is more common in those with similar results and we can adjust our regime.  As an early stager, I have no way of knowing if my outcome would have been any different but I'm prepared to at least give myself the best chance to stay cancer free.

luv_gardening

More about Calorie Restriction:

It is well known that a high GI diet causes the blood sugar to spike, especially after consuming sugars, fructose etc.  Obese people are known to retain a high blood glucose level between meals than those in the normal weight range instead of a one to two hour rise. They also have higher cancer rates.

Many research facilities are now starting human trials into Metformin (diabetes drug) and low energy diets.  Metformin has been shown to mimic caloric restriction diets (CRD) but are not as effective against cancer as the diet itself.  I'm hoping a formula can be found that can be used effectively to reverse cancer for those who would prefer not to take drugs.  There will always be those who would rather pop a pill than restrict their diets and I know well how addictive sugar is so there's room for all of us if we can have a choice. My suspicions are they will try to market a drug that includes Metformin, anti-oxidants and anti-inflammatories.  I can't blame the drug companies for wanting to get returns for all the wonderful research they continue to do, often without any returns when the drug fails.  But I want to have the option of making myself healthy and cancer free as naturally as possible.

Here are a few links for those who don't mind all the scientific lingo:

Caloric restriction reduces growth of mammary tumors and metastases

Obesity affects more than one third of the U.S. population and is associated with increased risk and/or disease severity for several chronic diseases, including cancer. In contrast, calorie restriction (CR) consistently inhibits cancer across species and cancer types. 

Glycolytic inhibition as a strategy for developing calorie restriction mimetics.

Calorie restriction mimetics: an emerging research field. (2006)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caloric_restriction_mimetic

Here are two reports on the original study which includes so many important findings I had to read them many times to find them all:

Dietary energy availability affects primary and metastatic breast cancer and metformin efficacy - 2011 September 1.

Scientists use diabetes drug in double hit to starve cancer cells - 28 August 2011

Although the emphasis is on Metformin, note well that it acts by mimicing calorie restriction:

"A number of therapeutic compounds have been investigated to replace direct modulation of caloric or energy intake, collectively termed caloric restriction mimetics (CRM) [9]. One compound suggested to be a useful CRM candidate is metformin."

luv_gardening

Calcium Hydroxycitrate (HCA) and Laurent Schwartz:

A french oncologist, Laurent Schwartz has founded a company, The Biorébus group...  

It feels that the crucial need is not to produce more data but to organize them in order to simplify biology as to make it understandable. Its work has been on trying to establish the hypotheses that cancer (whatever its subtype) is a metabolic disease akin to diabetes, that inflammation (whatever its cause) is synonymous to increased osmolarity ...(snip)...

Its continuing goals are to determine whether a combined metabolic therapy (Metabloc) can alleviate tumor growth in humans, to understand the link between cancer in the elderly and Alzheimer's disease, and to write in mathematical terms the similarities between biology and cellular electrical forces.

 His research includes Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA), one of the main antioxitants, and calcium hydroxycitrate (HCA) which is a potential dietary aid which comes from some tropical plants including Garcinia cambogia and Hibiscus subdariffa.  HCA is found in some dietary supplements. This research needs confirmation but any woman who takes ALA may wish to consider adding HCA.  Be aware his research is biased towards his own product (but who else will do the studies)?

 

A combination of alpha lipoic acid and calcium hydroxycitrate is efficient against mouse cancer models: preliminary results. May 2010

 

Adding a combination of hydroxycitrate and lipoic acid (METABLOC^TM) to chemotherapy improves effectiveness against tumor development: experimental results and case report.

OK, that's it for today unless anyone has contributions or questions. 

 

Welcome 3rings, I hope you can put up with my ramblings even though I'm not a member of your club.  No thanks, I don't want to join but if any of you can get out I'll be cheering so loud they'll be carting me away in a straight jacket.

thats-life-

i love you joylieswithin !

luv_gardening

    Spring is in the air.  My eldest son (23) who is shy with girls finally started dating a girl he's known for years. He told me last night.

thats-life-

that is lovely jlw, im happy for him!...though i wasnt suggesting you and i start dating......its a kind of 'researcher buddie's love'.... hahaha...

kidding aside, thanks for putting all that research of yours on this thread...i think its well worth it ..i have a bit more to add.. my new thought for the day:  pancreatic function and its association with..endocrine system...inflammation...immune system...i saw a blog by an angry doctor..saying a healthy pancreas will not allow cancer cells to accumulate into tumours, and a slow but steady return to healthy pancreatic function, can turn things around...but he was too cranky to quote here as a reference. When i looked at pancreatic function, it seems to be involved with a number of processes that can create an environment conducive to cancer,,its quite interesting.

thats-life-

The Pancreas

  Completes the job of breaking down protein, carbohydrates, and fats using digestive juices of pancreas combined with juices from the intestines.

  Secretes hormones that affect the level of sugar in the blood.

  Produces chemicals that neutralize stomach acids that pass from the stomach into the small intestine by using substances in pancreatic juice.

  Contains Islets of Langerhans, which are tiny groups of specialized cells that are scattered throughout the organ. 

•  
  • These cells secrete:
    •  
      • Glucagon-raises the level of glucose (sugar) in the blood
      • Insulin-stimulates cells to use glucose
      • Somatostatin-may regulate the secretion of glucagons and insulin.

thats-life-

 RE the pancreas: http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/gene-could-hold-key-to-reversing-diabetes-20110923-1knlh.html

"...Further tests also confirmed that pancreatic tissue from diabetes patients contains high levels of ld1, which is already known to promote the growth of cancer cells."

luv_gardening

If we ever cracked this puzzle and stage IV sisters started recovering against the odds, I'd say we'd be booking one almighty big research buddies' date, maybe in America where so many of our BCO friends live.  Imagine the celebrations!

I have some disclaimers to post about antioxidant supps (which may not be wise for smokers), maybe tomorrow, but first I have more information to check.  High antioxidant foods seem safe enough but it would take a lot to work.  Apparently wine has negligible amounts of resveratrol for example. 

We all murder our pancreases gradually with empty, processed sugars, fructose and carbs.  (Edited to add-- fats, which is what they found).  When will our governments and food regulators get the message? 

thats-life-

well its a big job to try to turn around stage IV BC!..hopefully more funding into research of MBC will help. ...but there are some things we can do to help ourselves, until that elusive cure/or treatment becomes the standard that can extend our lives further.. ..and as i have said earlier on this thread, helping to boost our immune system while going through treatment, and the proven life extending benefits of exercise, (and it seems a low calorie diet) as well as the healing and relaxation and sometimes pain relief benefits of meditation or mindfulness...can help us on our journey, in the hope, at least,  that the outcome is longer term survival with this disease.

thats-life-

hi 3rings...im interested in vitC infusions too..it seems some oncs are cool with it, but mine said no....i should have asked him for more details/reasoning etc... lol..i will next time.

sweetbean

OK, so the protein mix that I have been using in my smoothie uses fructose to sweeten it. (I can't believe I'm just noticing it now.) It has 5 grams of sugar and 22 grams of protein - it's vegan, which is one of the reasons I like it. Organic chia, hemp, and pea protein.  The rest of my diet is very low sugar - lots of vegetables, maybe 2 fruits a day, sometimes Ezekial bread/quinoa/brown rice.  So it's not like my diet is super high sugar - probably 5 grams of fructose isn't such a huge deal.  But it says on the label that the product is suitable for diabetics.  Thoughts?  I'm thinking of switching to Olympian Labs Pea Protein.

RE: Vit C, my integrative doctor offered it, but I declined since I am doing mistletoe, Low dose neltrexone, homeopathy, and I'd like to start Avemar.  The price she quoted for Vit. C was $80 per week to start and then $110 ( I guess you get a bigger bag later on.)  Anyway, it was a lot of money!  But I hear people have good success with it.

thats-life-

hey sweetpea, can you tell us more about Avemar? i remember you mentioned it earlier..is your protein supp because you are doing a vegan diet and want to keep up protein intake? i feel we need some sugars, natural ones like we get from fruit, but not too much. Im always thinking about how we lived long ago, sort of how we were made to live. I saw a doco on that amazing tribe in the amazon, who have had minimal outside contact. They have very little disease.(though they have an odd practice of not wanting to live till old age and take poison, very weird but interesting) anyway, i see it as fruit when its fruit season, (like a burst of high caloric/vitC intake) then back to a basic vegan diet, with occasional meat...it kind of ties in with what we are looking at here...DER (dietary energy restriction) and CRM (calorie restriction mimetic) and intermittant caloric restriction (heidi)....but i still cant find any info on timing i.e.hours/weeks or months of intermittant restriction.... very hard to change habits when our supermarkets supply us with all the crap as well as the good stuff all year round.