Block Center for Integrative Treatment

rdumap

Has anyone had experience with the Block Center for Integrative Cancer Treatment?? Woudl love to hear , please..

rdumap

Has anyone had experience or directly or indirectly with Block Center for Integrative Cancer Therapy...would love to hear...

Esmerelda

Bump! I'm considering going. Anyone been?

chelseasanfran

Yes,  I went there in early March for a two-day comprehensive consultative evaluation post-lumpectomy with Intraoperative Radiation and 4 cycles of CT for Stage IIb DC.  I completely filled out their 19 page questionnaire in advance and was scheduled to see their medical oncologist, their psychotherapist, their internist, and a nutritionist.  However, since their internist was away the week of my visit, I saw Keith Block for my physical exam and medical interview. 

Although, I was very disappointed with the the care I received there, I cannot underestimate the enormous respect and appreciation I have for Keith and Penny's Block's approach, the knowledge base they have developed and so generously disseminated and their commitment to providing truly integrated conventional and complementary medicine for people with cancer. 

While their services are not inexpensive, I do not think that their primary motivations are financial (in contrast to the Cancer Treatment Centers of America and many of the institutionally affiliated Complementary Medicine Centers cited below).  When I called the Cancer Treatment Centers of America and told them I had an HMO, they said they would not see me without a $250 K depost.  The Block Center does not ask for any advance payment and is very accommodating for people who may need a payment plan.

I believe Keith and Penny Block are truly committed to patients and their recovery. I also think that the Block Center is probably one of the few, if only places in the country that can give hope to late-stage cancer patients who have been abandoned by conventional medicine practitioners as hopeless.  I should also preface by saying that the Center was reportedly in chaos the week that I visited as some of their staff was on vacation and Keith was delayed on route back from a conference.

With that said, I went to the Block Center for advice on whether or not to have further radiation (WBRT) in addition to a complementary medicine evaluation with treatment recommendations, i.e., diet and supplements.  My clinical history is posted on various topic groups on BC.org , but my situation was that I was post-chemo having had the wrong procedure (IORT is only for stage I).  I had been mis-staged pre-op by US biopsy, which would not have happened had I gotten a second opinion or even just had a pre-op Breast MRI. I had subsequently gotten contradictory information from the tumor board where I had my surgery recommending WBRT after chemo and other consultants and experts saying I should not.  I thought the Block Center would be the perfect place to help me address this question as well as help me with my entire care plan moving forward.  

I had previously read parts of Keith's book: Life Over Cancer, which for the most part has almost all of the information that he provides in person. I first heard about him via a very rude Oncologist at the UCSF Osher Center, whom I had called for a referral for a truly integrative/ed medical oncologist in the SF Bay area after it became clear that neither the UCSF Osher Center, CPMC/Sutter Institute for Health and Healing nor the Alta Bates Center for Integrative Medicine Program actually integrates complementary approaches with conventional treatments - but rather merely provide costly adjunct/add-ons to conventional treatments that are for the most part not covered by insurance for cancer treatment. Since the complementary MDs there do not provide any conventional medical treatment or care, most insurance companies won't even cover a visit with a complementary medicine MD for a second opinion. This applies also to the Block Center, where only certain professional services, labs and treatments offered or recommended will be covered by insurance. 

I should also note that my primary care doctor is an Osteopathic physician (a D.O.) and had a copy of Keith's book, which he lent me. He has also given me a lot of recommendations for supplements and herbal preparations and conferenced on my f/u call with Keith to review the labs I had done at the Block Center and goals for impacting the problematic ones, which included both cancer markers and basic ones like fasting glucose.

In any case, I was very disappointed with the Block Center, even though I am still following the diet Keith recommended, am taking/purchasing from their affiliated company $800 of supplements per month that he prescribed, and am checking in with him next month on my follow-up labs and clinical status. 

I just finished a very exhausting two month long six month f/u screening that was clear, but required 2 breast MRIs, 1 MRI guided core biopsy, 1 US guided core biopsy, 1 abd US and 1 chest CT.  This process was started by Keith's recommendation that I alternate 6 month screenings between mammograms and Breast MRIs in part to reduce radiation exposure.  However, in this process, I have learned about all of the issues with the Breast MRI technology (see my other postings on this) and am seeking access to a more advanced Breast MRI technology for my next 6 month screening. 

The problems I encountered at the Block Center included that they were very disorganized - I waited 4 hours for my first appointment with a fairly inexperienced nutritionist who hadn't even looked at my questionnaire and started reading to me from their written manual. She knew nothing about the diet I had been on since starting chemo or any of my clinical information. She also provided me recommendations regarding her own personal diet - stating that she didn't trust any meat or fish products whatsoever. She then left by giving me the supplement list and guessing/suggesting which ones I probably needed most, with the caveat that I would need to meet with Keith who would ultimately tell me which ones were essential (He basically told me all of them were essential).  

When I then met with Keith, he of course knew nothing about my case, and told me neither he nor anyone on staff knew anything about radiation, but that he knew a really smart radiation oncologist somewhere in Illinois who I should call and consult with. It turned out that the number he gave me for the Rad Onc was a number where the Rad Onc hadn't practiced for 20 years and when I did call the RO's office, I was told he doesn't take any private patients.  It took two weeks, to get a call from him and he consulted with me by phone, but I had to take copious notes and he never sent me any written report, which he promised (didn't bill me either, which I expected).

My meeting with their therapist was horrendous. She started by telling me how much she admired me, how much I had accomplished, and wanted me to rehash my past family history I had mentioned, which brought me to tears. I had to insist at the end of this extended  session that we focus on my problems coping in the present and how overwhelmed I was with getting good care, having had the wrong procedure, not knowing what to do about further radiation, my side effects (I had just finished my last chemo cycle - had lost all my hair, had terrible joint and bone pain, etc, and all of the unrealistic recommendations that Dr. Block had made for me to follow. I told her I needed a local referral for a good Cognitive Behavioral Therapist. She would up emailing me a useless link to a state agency that licenses psychologists.  Keith's wife Penny Block subsequently referred me to a psychotherapist 3000 miles away to speak with by phone.

My last meeting was with a medical oncologist who walked out to meet me in the waiting area and basically said, "Well, I hear you have everything taken care of (having seen Keith Block) and reiterated that he knew nothing about radiation. He then spent the remaining 30-40 minutes asking me professional advice and sharing with me his personal problems regarding how one of his family members didn't appreciate his interest in complementary approaches.

I had/still have a bad arthritic hip and put this down as one the issues I wanted help with.  It was only as I was leaving an made a complaint with their business manager about these and other issues, that I noted that they never really addressed my chemo symptoms and that they should have scheduled me to see their physical therapist and coordinated this with my recommended complementary treatments (They have all PT equipment out in plain view).

Two follow-up calls with Penny Block were helpful to the extent that she walked me through and sent me a fact sheet on progressive muscle relaxation, which she recommends/ed twice daily.

I feel that I probably could have gotten almost everything from his book, as his main recommendations were for me to read most of his book.  However, as we all know, assimilating and applying in a practical way a diet and supplements from a book is very difficult. I have though as noted followed his diet and supplement regimen for four plus months as well as his metabolic and lab monitoring recommendations without any regular contact with him/them. I have relied mostly on personal supports and support from my primary care MD and medical oncologist. 

In addition to reviewing my labs with Keith next month, I have a lot of questions about the fact I am taking many different supplements that have varying doses of the same supplements/vitamins (e.g. four separate ones with Calcium). Some supplements have been shown to work better in certain combinations (e.g. 4:1 ratio EPA:DHA for Omega 3 FAs) with trace amounts of another substance (e.g. Omega 3s with trace amounts Vit E). However, some of the overlapping supplements don't seem justified scientifically, so I am going address these questions with him.

My biggest issue though with the Block Center is that they are not truly integrative, because they don't provide all of the conventional treatments that people need with breast cancer treatment, although they do provide chemotherapy and prescribe anti-hormone medications. I think part of the problem may be that they are so progressive in approach and are staying true to their approach, such that they remain isolated and unintegrated with an institutional cancer center. This is unfortunate and clearly not their fault. I also think that the demand for their services and/or cost to maintain their center independently may be so great that it has become difficult for them to adequately individualize services and treatment and to find and/or train competent professionals at their level. It also may be that the relatively low cost of the Center's services are subsidized by their supplement revenues, which is run by a company that reportedly has other partners/investors beyond the Block Center. 

chelseasanfran

Yes,  I went there in early March for a two-day comprehensive consultative evaluation post-lumpectomy with Intraoperative Radiation and 4 cycles of CT for Stage IIb DC.  I completely filled out their 19 page questionnaire in advance and was scheduled to see their medical oncologist, their psychotherapist, their internist, and a nutritionist.  However, since their internist was away the week of my visit, I saw Keith Block for my physical exam and medical interview. 

Although, I was very disappointed with the the care I received there, I cannot overestimate the enormous respect and appreciation I have for Keith and Penny's Block's approach, the knowledge base they have developed and so generously disseminated and their commitment to providing truly integrated conventional and complementary medicine for people with cancer. 

While their services are not inexpensive, I do not think that their primary motivations are financial (in contrast to the Cancer Treatment Centers of America and many of the institutionally affiliated Complementary Medicine Centers cited below).  When I called the Cancer Treatment Centers of America and told them I had an HMO, they said they would not see me without a $250 K deposit.  The Block Center does not ask for any advance payment and is very accommodating for people who may need a payment plan.

I believe Keith and Penny Block are truly committed to patients and their recovery. I also think that the Block Center is probably one of the few, if only places in the country that can give hope to late-stage cancer patients who have been abandoned by conventional medicine practitioners as hopeless.  I should also preface by saying that the Center was reportedly in chaos the week that I visited as some of their staff was on vacation and Keith was delayed on route back from a conference.

With that said, I went to the Block Center for advice on whether or not to have further radiation (WBRT) in addition to a complementary medicine evaluation with treatment recommendations, i.e., diet and supplements.  My clinical history is posted on various topic groups on BC.org , but my situation was that I was post-chemo having had the wrong procedure (IORT is only for stage I).  I had been mis-staged pre-op by US biopsy, which would not have happened had I gotten a second opinion or even just had a pre-op Breast MRI. I had subsequently gotten contradictory information from the tumor board where I had my surgery recommending WBRT after chemo and other consultants and experts saying I should not.  I thought the Block Center would be the perfect place to help me address this question as well as help me with my entire care plan moving forward.  

I had previously read parts of Keith's book: Life Over Cancer, which for the most part has almost all of the information that he provides in person. I first heard about him via a very rude Oncologist at the UCSF Osher Center, whom I had called for a referral for a truly integrative/ed medical oncologist in the SF Bay area after it became clear that neither the UCSF Osher Center, CPMC/Sutter Institute for Health and Healing nor the Alta Bates Center for Integrative Medicine Program actually integrates complementary approaches with conventional treatments - but rather merely provide costly adjunct/add-ons to conventional treatments that are for the most part not covered by insurance for cancer treatment. Since the complementary MDs there do not provide any conventional medical treatment or care, most insurance companies won't even cover a visit with a complementary medicine MD for a second opinion. This applies also to the Block Center, where only certain professional services, labs and treatments offered or recommended will be covered by insurance. 

I should also note that my primary care doctor is an Osteopathic physician (a D.O.) and had a copy of Keith's book, which he lent me. He has also given me a lot of recommendations for supplements and herbal preparations and conferenced on my f/u call with Keith to review the labs I had done at the Block Center and goals for impacting the problematic ones, which included both cancer markers and basic ones like fasting glucose.

In any case, I was very disappointed with the Block Center, even though I am still following the diet Keith recommended, am taking/purchasing from their affiliated company $800 of supplements per month that he prescribed, and am checking in with him next month on my follow-up labs and clinical status. 

I just finished a very exhausting two month long six month f/u screening that was clear, but required 2 breast MRIs, 1 breast US, 1 MRI guided core biopsy, 1 US guided core biopsy, 1 abd US and 1 chest CT.  This process was started by Keith's recommendation that I alternate 6 month screenings between mammograms and Breast MRIs in part to reduce radiation exposure.  However, in this process, I have learned about all of the issues with the Breast MRI technology (see my other postings on this) and am seeking access to a more advanced Breast MRI technology for my next 6 month screening. 

The problems I encountered at the Block Center included that they were very disorganized - I waited 4 hours for my first appointment with a fairly inexperienced nutritionist who hadn't even looked at my questionnaire and started reading to me from their written manual. She knew nothing about the diet I had been on since starting chemo or any of my clinical information. She also provided me recommendations regarding her own personal diet - stating that she didn't trust any meat or fish products whatsoever. She then left by giving me the supplement list and guessing/suggesting which ones I probably needed most, with the caveat that I would need to meet with Keith who would ultimately tell me which ones were essential (He basically told me all of them were essential).  A second follow-up meeting with the nutritionist that occurred b/c of my dissatisfaction with the first meeting was more productive in that she responded very professionally to a list of questions that I had given her and agreed to follow-up with me on recommendations/recipes for various dairy and protein substitutions. 

When I then met with Keith, he knew little about my case, and told me neither he nor anyone on staff knew anything about radiation, but that he knew a really smart radiation oncologist somewhere in Illinois whom I should call and consult with. It turned out that the number he gave me for the Rad Onc was a number where the Rad Onc hadn't practiced for 20 years and when I did call the RO's office, I was told he doesn't take any private patients.  It took two weeks, to get a call from him and he consulted with me by phone, but I had to take copious notes and he never sent me any written report, which he promised (didn't bill me either, which I expected).

My meeting with their therapist was horrendous. She started by telling me how much she admired me, how much I had accomplished, and wanted me to rehash my past family history I had mentioned in the questionnaire, which brought me to tears. I had to insist at the end of this extended  session that we focus on my problems coping in the present and how overwhelmed I was with not getting good care, having had the wrong procedure, not knowing what to do about further radiation, my side effects (I had just finished my last chemo cycle - had lost all my hair, had terrible joint and bone pain, etc) and all of the unrealistic recommendations that Dr. Block had given me to follow. I told her I needed a local referral for a good Cognitive Behavioral Therapist. She would up emailing me a useless link to a state agency that licenses psychologists. Keith's wife Penny Block subsequently referred me to a psychotherapist 3000 miles away to speak with by phone.

My last meeting was with a medical oncologist who walked out to meet me in the waiting area and basically said, "Well, I hear you have everything taken care of." (having seen Keith Block) and reiterated that he knew nothing about radiation. He then spent the remaining 30-40 minutes asking me professional advice and sharing with me his personal problems regarding how one of his family members didn't appreciate his interest in mindfulness practices.

I had/still have a bad arthritic hip and put this down as one the issues I wanted help with.  It was only as I was leaving and made a complaint with their business manager about these and other issues, that I noted that they never really addressed my chemo symptoms and that they should have scheduled me to see their physical therapist and coordinated this with my recommended complementary treatments (They have all the PT equipment out in plain view).

Two follow-up calls with Penny Block were helpful to the extent that she walked me through and sent me a fact sheet on progressive muscle relaxation, which she recommends/ed twice daily.

I feel that I probably could have gotten almost everything from his book, as his main recommendations were for me to read most of his book.  However, as we all know, assimilating and applying in a practical way a diet and supplements from a book is very difficult. I have though as noted followed his diet and supplement regimen for four plus months as well as his metabolic and lab monitoring recommendations without any regular contact with him/them. I have relied mostly on personal supports and support from my primary care MD and medical oncologist. 

I have lost about 18 pounds, although unable to walk very well or do regular aerobic exercise, have lost some muscle mass as well, my blood pressure, which was intermittently spiking up is back to low normal, my heart rate which was normal high is down, my fasting blood sugar is down by 10 points, all my tumor markers are down to normal/negative, and my cholesterol, which is still high due to an elevated LDL is down by 20 points. And my Vit D is up to normal (was low).

Starting Aromasin has somewhat undermined how much better I was feeling, as it aggravates my joint/muscle pain, and is causing a lot of menopausal symptoms (again!) including night sweats, insomnia and hot flashes.

In addition to reviewing my labs and questions about alternative treatments for the Aromasin SEs that are not estrogenic (my tumor was ER + and PR - with Keith next month, I have a lot of questions about the fact I am taking many different supplements that have varying doses of the same supplements/vitamins (e.g. four separate ones with Calcium). Some supplements have been shown to work better in certain combinations (e.g. 4:1 ratio EPA:DHA for Omega 3 FAs) with trace amounts of another substance (e.g. Omega 3s with trace amounts Vit E). However, some of the overlapping supplements don't seem justified scientifically, so I am going address these questions with him.

My biggest issue though with the Block Center is that they are not truly integrative, because they don't provide all of the conventional treatments that people need with breast cancer treatment, although they do provide chemotherapy and prescribe anti-hormone medications. I think part of the problem may be that they are so progressive in approach and have stayed true to their approach, such that they remain isolated and unintegrated with an institutional cancer center. 

This is unfortunate, but clearly not their fault. I also think that the demand for their services and/or cost to maintain their center independently may be so great that it has become difficult for them to adequately individualize services and treatment and to find and/or train competent professionals at their level. It also may be that the relatively low cost of the Center's services need to be subsidized by their supplement revenues, which is run by a company that reportedly has other partners/investors beyond the Block Center.