OSTEOPENIA,OSTEOPOROSIS AFTER BREAST CANCER...

luv_gardening

Exercise.  I do resistance exercises most days, jump on a rebounder and use a vibration platform.

Vitamin K2 (Menatetranone).  I take two drops a day now. This is the only supp that makes new bone, not just suppress old bone.  I suspect it's the suppression of the old bone resorption that causes our bones to age and therefore subject to jaw necrosis and fractures.

Strontium Citrate. 720mg a day. I get this and the K2 from an online supplement supplier.

Calcium plus companion supps in one tablet plus vitamin D3. 

Calcium and strontium must be taken at different times as calcium blocks the strontium, so no food or milky drinks to be taken before or after the strontium.

http://www.worldhealth.net/news/strontium_breakthrough_against_osteoporo/

http://www.cureself.com/research/journal/K2_Menatetrenone_winter_03.pdf

-Sheila- 

luv_gardening

Take care please to only take 750mg calcium maximum and then if you take vitamin K2 (see my above post) it should remove calcium deposits from your arteries (plaque) and other unwanted places.

Study adds weight to link between calcium supplements and heart problems

-Sheila-

peggy_j

nastazia_s, thanks for the info on coffee + calcium.  I don't take them together but usually take the supplement a bit later (maybe an hour later). Wonder if it makes a difference. I'll look into it. I dug out my notes from meeting with the Stanford nutritionist and she recommended for me:

VIT 1000-2000 UI a day, not to exceed 4000. (I read elsewhere that a solid dose is 3000 UI from all sources, including food and the sun) Vit D is also in fatty fish (salmon?) which I am trying to add in due to Omega 3s.

For calcium she recommended 1000-1200 mg, prefers calcium citrate (easier to digest?). When I pressed her she said maybe 1500 mg is OK.

Here's what I'm actually taking daily: Calcium 1200 mg, and VIT D-3 1800 IU.  I split them up and take most in the morning but hold  back and take 500 mg calcium and 200 IU VIT D at night.

JoysLieWithin: thanks for posting that info. These bone issues are a moving target. Do you know if that study has been collaborated or reproduced? FWIW,  I've discussed my bone issues with an oral surgeon (your bottom jaw can be impacted by bone issues) and he said that some studies recommended up to 1600 mg calcium. This was awhile ago (10 years ago?) 

luv_gardening

Peggy, the study needs to be confirmed, but then again where is the study suggesting higher amounts are needed and safe?  I suspect that the people who decide just raise the bar every time they see the number of people with osteoporosis and broken hips rising. Yet I've been a huge lover of cheese and yoghurt all my life.  As a child I drank free milk at school in the UK and use it in tea and cereal now. I also eat sardines and other high calcium foods regularly.   I had osteoporosis in my hips when first scanned at age 59.  No doubt because I've always lead a sedentary lifestyle, working at a desk and not being a physical person.  Yet I had calcium deposits constantly building up on my teeth around my gums and heel spurs which are calcium deposits.  So all the calcium I eat or take was going to the wrong places. I notice the calcium deposits are no longer building up on my teeth since I've been taking vitamin K2.  I still eat cheese and yoghurt daily. 

If there was a good study that lead to the decision to make the calcium requirements so high then most countries would be in agreement, yet the article says:

Recommendations for the over 50s vary considerably around the world - authorities in the UK recommend 700mg per day calcium intake, while in the USA it is 1,200mg and in Scandinavia 800mg.

I can't help wondering if it's our love of milk products in developed countries that causes our higher rate of plaque build up in our arteries and heart attacks and strokes as per my last post. There are other studies showing a link between calcium supps and heart attacks.

New research published in the British Medical Journal today adds to mounting evidence that calcium supplements increase the risk of cardiovascular events, particularly heart attacks, in older women.

-Sheila-

peggy_j

JoyLiesWithin, thanks for all the info and good food for thought. I've never considered Vit K, so I'll definitely look into that. FWIW, when my oral surgeon mentioned the higher dose (1600 mg) he cited a study (Johns Hopkins?) that said it could be taken safely (but we didn't discuss the risk of too much). I haven't thought much about what our bodies so with excess calcium. I heard it could lead to an increased risk of kidney stones, so I guess I thought it was filtered out. FWIW, when I talked to a nutritionist she said that "blood calcium is not a good read of calcium stores." Maybe, as you say, having extra calcium in our blood doesn't necessarily help our bones. In my case, in addition to inheriting a risk for osteoperosis, I was diagnosed with a milk allergy at age 14, so I've largely cut back on my dairy intake for most of my life. I've taken supplements but when I had my first DEXA scan (after my BC DX) it claimed I was in the normal range for my age (46), but the far far (bad) end of normal. It made me wonder if taking all the calcium did any good. The nutritionist mentioned that the body can't absorb more than 500 mg at a time, so maybe that plays into the risks you mention--if people megadose on calcium, chances are they do it in a single dose, resulting in very limited benefit but more risk for bad stuff. Hmmm...interesting. BTW, do you know what kind of doc I can talk to about this? An orthopedist? The docs I've talked to (primary care, my MO) seem to have limited info and I'd love to have a consultation with a specialist.

luv_gardening

I've heard that we can only absorb a limited amount of calcium at one time too.  And there's no way of knowing where the calcium ends up, in our bones, arteries, kidneys?

Unfortunately doctors and nutritionists have to use the guidelines and often don't read new studies so they will most likely stick to what they are told.

I guess we're all our own doctors in the end and have to decide whether to stick to the status quo or try something different.  At one time we all had to eat margarine because it was good for us.  Eggs were supposed to be bad, yet it turns out they help our hearts and don't add cholesterol.  So it's not really known what is the ideal diet or supplement routine as we are still learning.

Since the one constant is exercise that grows new bone rather than stopping the old bone from being reabsorbed, that should be our main strategy as long as we are able.  If taking calcium automatically fixed our bones then sedentary people wouldn't have osteoporosis as long as they had a good calcium intake.  So with the amount of dairy products I consume I should have strong bones, but my sedentary lifestyle has been the deciding factor.  So I know I must keep exercising every day, no excuses, and with every step I imagine it pushing the calcium into my bones. 

yellowdoglady

nastasia_s,

Yes, I had Zometa when my rib was fractured and no one including me could say why.  There was a large worry that I had bony metastasis, so I was given Zometa to combat that.  It turned out that I just had a weak bone from all the chemo and it cracked for no apparent reason, so I was given a bone scan and yes, my bones were tapped out by the chemo.  Now I get Reclast once a year.  It is the same thing as Zometa, just a slightly different dose.

This is not a bad thing.  Most people with no bad health history cannot get the good drugs at all.  The pills my sisters have to take have bad side effects, and until they get very ill from them, they cannot get the state of the art stuff we are allowed.  The infused bone density drugs do not have any of the bad side effects of the pills.  But none of those things are good if you have bad teeth or jaw problems.  Those things need to be fixed first.      

yellowdoglady

Again, I have to ask.

Why are most of the posts on our TNBC boards from people who are not Triple Negative?

Are we the guinea pigs for the +++ too?

luv_gardening

There isn't a separate forum section for osteoporosis as far as I know.  I wish there was as it's an important consideration.  There's an anti-hormone section, but that doesn't cover those who are not using the hormonal drugs which are not designed to stop osteoporosis.

yellowdoglady

Sorry, Joy, but here we are a strange animal that has to deal with so much.

And all of the sudden, everyone says its not so bad because we are better off than you.

People without our problems should not be on our board.  You can make the same thread on your own board.  Though you in particular deserve to have a say even here as you are pretty knowlegeable.  So say why we should lose our boards to others who are no way like us.

Please. 

I'm not trying to be rude, you know.  I just want to know why we should lose our place because others can't do the same thing.    

luv_gardening

You're welcome to exclusive use of your board and you're not in the least bit rude. I suspect the OP was from a daughter who doesn't understand the workings of this board or else her mum is triple neg, and the caps attracted others with similar bone problems.   I'll run off now.  I hope you can find the support and friendship you all need... we all need.

Sending love to all the triple negs from a stage III gal who had, and still fears,sneaky invisible tumours.

peggy_j

I started a new thread under Hormone Therapy called "bones bones bones."