Stop SUGAR Support Thread

pip57

TonLee, re processed food...I would suggest that you check the list of ingredients when choosing foods.  Even coffee cream has stuff added.  Yogurt can be a mixture of several chemicals.  There are healthier choices but they are difficult to find.  Canned fruits now are in no way the same as the ones our grandparents put up for the winter.

molly52

Pretty much all my adult life I have had sugar sensitivity (don't know what else to call it).  Too much can give migraines, blister my mouth, and other odd things.  Yet I have a sweet tooth.  I found that fruits and homemade desserts don't cause problems.  I felt there was something extra in the manufactured desserts that caused my problems.

Currently, I am witling down the suggested sugar in my favourite recipies.  One recipie is down to 1/4 of the original suggested sugar and I have switched to unrefined organic sugar.  I find it safisfies like a desert, but is only barely sweet.

I agree with TonLee and from my personal experience find sugar in moderation is fine.   But, too much of the manufactured deserts have excessive amounts of sugar.

TonLee

Pip,

I realize there are additives to canned goods to maintain color, or freshness.  With the items I listed however, I believe the benefits far outweigh risk. 

pip57

I just logged on to suggest that you watch Dr Oz today.  He is talking about diet and cancer. 

TonLee, I respectfully have to disagree with you.  I used to believe the same thing.  However, after spending the last 4 years researching, I have made a HUGE difference in my diet.  It has totally changed the way I look at labels and values of foods.  On the other hand, I would probably agree with the statement that eating canned tomatoes is better than none at all.

Edited to be clear that the 'you' I was referring to meant all the ladies following this thread. 

TonLee

Pip,

I see you are in Ontario.  Here in the states our "organic" is classified on 3 levels, and until very recently was based on a sort of "honor" system (no money in the budget for inspections...and farms that produce less than $5000 aren't inspected at all (unless that's changed in the last year).  In the US unless it is labeled 100% organic, then at some point in the growing or transportation synthetics were used..

Organic agriculture practices cannot ensure that products are completely free of residues; (because we live in a polluted environment) however, methods are used to minimize pollution from air, soil and water.

There are also other little things here..for instance, a field only has to be 3 years without synthetics before it can used as an "organic" growing field.  There are known soil carcinogens that last much longer than that, as well as "new" fields that may have been something else before it became a farm. 

I spent a vast amount of time the last two years jumping through administrative hoops (that no one policed) to help establish an urban farm for a local community.  The idea behind it is to "grow organic and grow local (less energy consumption).  Using local volunteers, they intended to sell to local resteraunts and farmer's markets. 

I was shocked to find out for instance that preservative synthetics can be added to organic produce before or during transportation (to keep it from rotting) and it still can be labeled "organic."  But not 100% organic.  (The USDA has a list of synthetics that can't be used, but if it's not on the list, it is fair game.)

My point here is..just because it says "organic" in this country doesn't mean it's pure...a can of soup can read "organic" as long as 70% of the ingredients are grown organically...

What's even more important in my mind...when I read the can I know what's inside....when preservatives are added to "organic" food, I have no idea what they're using.  It's much easier for an inspector to go to Del Monte and check cans at random than say, go to a large "organic" farm, soil test, produce test, follow it in the transportation chain, etc.

I do have to say, in the last two years the USDA has come a VERY long way in writing new policy, and from what I understand Feb. of this year was a banner month on establishing live stock organic industry standards.  However, much of the organic growth industry is still on the honor system.  (But it is getting better....has too, organic consumption is up 5% and more in just the last YEAR!)

Anyway, sorry to go on about it....but lots of people think organic=pure...and that's just not so. 

XmasDx

TonLee, pip57 & other interested parties, I think we would all agree that "processed foods" that have lists of ingredients in a 2 point font that are 2" long on the label are bad.  At least, that's what I mean by processed food.  I do buy canned tomatoes, but the BPA in the cans had me "putting up" my own organic tomatoes last summer, and peaches also!  However, when I refer to bad "processed foods" I'm not referring to those healthier types of foods really, or even Progresso Lentil soup & stuff like that which is limited to about 10 NORMAL ingredients, lol.

I like the advice from Michael Pollan's book Food Rules - something along the lines of don't eat foods with more than 5 ingredients listed (or at least be suspicious of what those 5 ingredients are)... this does not apply to food you make yourself.  Actually, he says you can have anything you want if you make it yourself!  That is because he knows that we aren't all going to be making french fries at home from scratch every night, or baking a cake from scratch all the time.  

It is the quick, cheap, ready access to highly sugary, fatty, processed (i.e. chemical-laden) food that has our national nutrition in the crapper.  Is anyone watching Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution this year?  I love what he is fighting to do.

And I don't think that reasonable amounts of sugar are evil either, so we agree on that.  However, my reason for starting this thread is that no doctor on Earth would consider the amount of sugar/HFCS that I like to eat "reasonable"... I find it highly addicting.  I find a "reasonable" amount of sugar (for me) leades to an "unreasonable" amount!  

I would like to thank ALL of you ladies for engaging in this journey with me, because it has helped me SO SO much.  I hope it is helping all of you too.  I find myself thinking I just want a "little something" and because of this thread and our conversations, I then have to force myself to search for something healthier than brownies, ice cream, pastries, and cookies (and Easter candy).  I may be eating a lot of nuts, but at least I feel better!  

And I think I've lost about 4 lbs!  And that has been with making exceptions, as previously confessed. 

pip57 - I recorded Dr. Oz today and will have to go watch it!

TonLee - the organic info is interesting... I know a few years ago there were things in the works to drastically water down the organic standard.  What you write gives me reason to hope that is not happening?  

TonLee

XMas,

Very well said. 

Yes, things are getting better.  Obama diverted millions of dollars into getting a more cohesive organic standard across the nation.  The money hired new policy writers (this is my area of public administration).. to get the ball rolling...but with budget cuts, it may be awhile before there are actually enough inspectors to make sure it happens.

I would love to see at least half our home grown crops moving to organic in the next decade.  It's not only better for us...but for our many underground aquifers...the 'lifeblood" of any crop industry.

XmasDx

Yes TonLee, I hope for more organic crops for so many reasons.  We are blessed to have the best CSA/quasi-"organic" farm in our town for great local veg that ticks all the boxes for GREAT safe enviro-friendly food. 

BUT as long as we're in the cycle of corn & soy subsidies, it seems we will also be in the cycle of corn-fed and soy-fed cows, chickens, pigs, and even salmon.  And as long as we have lagoons so full of millions of gallons of pig shit that need to be sprayed on someone's field so they don't overflow into lakes & streams there will need to be cornfields to spray it on.  Does Monstanto want it organic?  No, I don't believe they do.

And as long as we grow this much corn & soy (both GMO), there will need to be a market for it.  Therefore we can expect to see HFCS renamed "corn sugar" or something else more enticing to the consumer.  As the movie "Food Inc." demonstrates so well, fast food is mostly corn repackaged into buns, burgers, soda, chicken nuggets, etc.  Another great film is "King Corn" which follows an acre of GMO corn through the system.  Ew.  

I know I know, this is the Stop SUGAR thread, not the "Preach about Corn and Soy and Monsanto and Unwise Government Subsidies" thread... but the down-grading of the quality of our food is all linked to these ideas and it just gets me so mad.  But I think I'm preaching to the choir.

Okay, stepping off my soapbox to go watch Dr. Oz...God bless you for your involvement in public administration and caring about getting things moving in a better direction.  

mumito

Saw the Dr Oz show yesterday but that diet is way to extreme for me. What did you think Pip?

elmcity69

I hear you, XmasDx. I get so pissed off (excuse my French) about the tainted foods available. My daughter is slowly getting in the swing of nutrition --she's 13-- and was so proud of herself for finding "really good yogurt!" @ Stop and Shop. Bless her heart, it was Yoplait low fat - OMG! corn starch, HFCS, etc etc. Stuff is TOTAL crap. We wound up discussing these very issues right in the dairy section! She returned the yogurt and we settled on Stonyfield, which is our usual purchase anyway.

Hard with kids - their lives have been so affected by our cancer anyway, and sometimes they grumble about the new changes. I'm trying to find a decent chocolate soymilk for my daughter - most of it is crap, and she refuses to drink "regular" soymilk. Of course, I am worried about her going near the stuff at all, but wondering if it's better than cow milk.

Anyone know of a good almond milk? Even the unsweetened has tapioca starch and other fillers. Am pondering making my own - saw a video on it.

Re: Michael Pollan: I find he is one of the most sensible voices on nutrition. Love his idea that one eats as a queen at breakfast, princess at lunch, pauper at dinner (ok substituted feminist language on that quote!). 

hope you all have a good day=

barbe1958

I raised my kids without them drinking milk. Milk is for babies, not adult humans! I have milk in cereal and tea and that's it. My kids don't even have the tea part.

pip57

Mumayam, that diet was a bit more severe than the one I follow.  I do eat some chicken, lots of fish.  No breads, very little salt and sugar. Plain yogurt, no other dairy. I find it very easy to do.

TonLee, I do agree with you about the organic foods.  It is the processed foods that I stay away from.  Like XmasDx, I check the ingredients.  Any more than 5 or any that I don't know what it is and the item goes back on the shelf.  

I think it is true that we have an easier time finding 'pure' foods in Canada.  Many items with the same companies have very different ingredients in the States.  You really need to check everything. 

dogsandjogs

I have managed to drink tea without sugar. I'm now on day 4 and so far, so good.  It was hard the first few days since I drink about 5 or 6 cups a day and was using 2 tsp each time!! But I did it gradually over about 2 weeks time.

elmcity69

i'm practically off all dairy now - lost my taste for it over the last 18 months, and am happy.a little bit on oatmeal, and that's it.

 my son isn't a big milk drinker, but my daughter is practically addicted to it. i only buy skim, organic, but still...i've read loads about dairy allergies, its link to acne, and possibly cancer. this kid might have the BRCA gene as it is - no need to stack the deck even more.

anyway - i have no sugar in my tea, or on anything i eat (eg oatmeal, fruit). my big problem with sugar is straight up chocolate. i'm keeping it to dark, but still.....

Lilah

Elmcity -- get your Vitamin D levels checked.  Low Vitamin D is bad and since you're off dairy I worry about your levels.  Check with your oncologist and/or your PCP.

dogsandjogs

I love  cheese (low fat naturally) and drink non fat milk with cereal. I like eggs too so don't want to give up dairy.  I heard dark chocolate is good for your heart so I have a piece of that from time to time. My vitamin D levels are fine; probably because I spend hours outside; i.e. walking my dogs, running, etc. So I get skin cancers - you just can't win can you? When I was young, milk was called "the perfect food" and nobody knew about the dangers of the sun.

XmasDx

We drank milk with breakfast, lunch & dinner... and if we were hungry before bed it was the one thing we could have at bedtime too.  I love milk!  BUT I think it's not good for me.  And even if it doesn't have synthetic hormones, I still worry about the natural hormones that must be in a lactating cow, right?  So I try to substitute almond milk, coconut milk, rice milk, hemp milk... I don't care for soy milk.  I have not tried making my own nut milk yet, but have read it is easy enough to do. 

And the sun?  Oh my, right?  Used to apply tanning OIL to my red-headed light complexion and try to tan.  So many bad burns in my teens, I'm sure my risk of skin cancer is probably high.  Now I avoid the sun for the most part... I just read that a t-shirt only offers spf5 protection too!  So much for the "I wear a shirt on the beach" theory!

DH bought mineral water today for the first time!  He is trying to find a substitute for HFCS/sugar/artificial sweeteners in sodas, crystal light etc... this is a step in a good direction for him too I think!

elmcity69

lilah, you're right..i had it checked months ago and it was 22! OMG! my  naturopath did it - my onc never even broached it. i've been taking 6,000 iu drops...off them for a while, then back on.

okay, i am going to sound like the world's worst ignoramus...i totally forgot eggs were dairy. what the heck is wrong with me?! I still eat egg whites frequently. chemo brain, i guess!

just bought some unsweetened almond milk today. great for using in recipes in place of milk, but for drinking...shudder. hoping i'll get used to it.

good night gals!

xo

j

Lilah

LOL elmcity re: eggs... and glad you're on the D3 train!  I take 4,000 iu's a day and increased mine from 22 to 40.

pip57

I also take 4,000iu of vitamin D each day.  Recommended by both my onc and gp.  A glass of enriched milk only has 100iu of it.  Dairy really isn't a good source.

LuvRVing

I take about 3000 ius of D...my last test was 55, so I'm pretty much up there.  I've never been a milk drinker...hated it my whole life.  It presented quite a problem between my parents and me when I was young.  I had a bone density scan last September and it came back perfect, so I guess that lifelong lack of milk didn't hurt me a bit.  I have noticed my fingernails are much sturdier, though.

Michelle

Lilah

Michelle -- D3 is supposedly good for diabetics as well as for cancer prevention.

sdstarfish

Sorry, I totally forgot to post about agave

First, a question: have any of you considered using brown rice syrup? That has a low glycemic index as well.

Lisa

www.pinkkitchen.info

sdstarfish

Here's what I've recently studied about agave nectar (I'm in my doctorate program, and we talk about nutrition constantly!).

1.) Like anything else, agave can be mass-produced to include genetically modified (GMO) stuff. So you have to really read up on your brands.

2.) Agave does not require any pesticides or fertilizer. It just grows, and it's very sturdy.

3.) They process it one of two ways. They either add a natural enzyme, or they use very low heat (see below). The reason: they have to separate the sugar molecules into fructose and glucose. (The reason they do this is because it's not naturally sweet - if you hacked off an agave leaf and sucked on it, it would not taste delicious!)

4.) Living or "raw" foods are generally defined as those that have not been heated above 118 degrees F. (People on a raw diet do eat dehydrated foods, which are generally not heated above 105 degrees). 

5.) Brands that I know definitely use non-GMO enzymes: Madhava, Wholesome Foods. There may be more, but these are two popular brands so I used them.

6.) Glycemic index: 32 - 39 for agave, honey is 58-68. Table sugar = 64-68. Madhava is lower than Wholesome Foods. HOWEVER - glycemic index also pertains to how MUCH of a food is used in one meal, So if you use a tbsp. in your tea, it's only about 8, and a tsp is about 3 (in terms of glycemic index). But a dessert made w/agave would be higher.

7.) Both agave and honey are composed of fructose ("fruit sugar") and glucose. Agave nectar has a higher fructose count, but a lower glycemic index, than honey.

If you eat too much of either - even if you're using natural or organic sweeteners -  you can become overweight and run into health issues. So you shouldn't go crazy and have dessert every night! Remember, cancer loves sugar of any kind. So enjoy your life, but live it in balance.

8.) Darker agave is less filtered and sort of tastes more like maple syrup.

9.) Use 2/3 cup agave to 1 cup sugar - it's stronger in sweetness.

I hope this helps! Let me know if you need help with brown rice syrup. Sorry if this has already been discussed - I tried to look through the thread, but didn't see it.

Lisa

www.pinkkitchen.info

XmasDx

Thanks Lisa!  I have both those brands in the house now!   I couldn't afford to eat it very often, or bake with it often, it's expensive!  But yummy. 

I did bake a peach dessert from The Kind Diet with brown rice syrup... that is the only time I have used it.  I did not particularly care for the taste of it, but my dd12 didn't seem to mind it.  It didn't stop me from eating it, but it was not my favorite.  Do you have any suggestions for it?  I have 2/3 of an (expensive) jar left.

I had some agave with butter on white rice for a snack after dinner the other night, and the agave tastes very sweet and pure with no strange non-sugary taste.  Even plain on rice.  SO NAUGHTY white sticky rice, I know!!! Bad bad bad... but I was eating it with healthier food too so I figured maybe it balanced out...

mdg

Thanks for the information on agave.  It is helpful.  I have read some of that in various places but it was nice to have it here in one spot.  I have some agave in the pantry...need to check what brand it is now! 

slinky

Hi ladies,

I have a question about dairy products.  I have been purchasing yogurt and cottage cheese that states it is made from milk from hormone-free cows.  Do you think this is o.k. to eat if I am ER+/PR+?

pip57

It helps, but the main issue with dairy is that it contains proteins that cause inflammation.  

dogsandjogs

I am getting really discouraged; i.e. too much protein is bad for you, cancer loves carbs and sugar. What can we eat? I need carbs for energy - I do try to limit protein, but not enough can cause cognitive problems, fruit is healthy, but it also has sugar.  What is safe to eat?  Only vegetables?  They just don't fill you up (sigh)

Lilah

Moderation in all things srbreastcancersurvivor... moderation!  I have to say since Michelle posted the 60 - 100 carbs a day idea I've been doing that and have lost 5 pounds (in one week)!  It is not difficult if you have a calorie counter that shows carbs as well.  Plenty of fruits and veggies (fruits like apples and pears are good for fiber and the sugars in them are complex, but I avoid grapes and bananas, for example), a reasonable amount of lean protein, and a small amount of carbs.  I think if you eat plenty of veggies with your protein it is not so bad for you.