Pool Exercises/Swimming?

Omaz

Valgal - I went swimming both days this weekend and it helped with the LE.  I am going to try adding an extra day over the week because my swelling was so much better when I swam in the mornings and then kept my sleeve/gauntlet on during the day during activities.

Valgal

Good to know, hopefully we can stop the evil swelling!!

Valgal

Is anyone seeing improvement or more swelling from the activity?

joan888

Valgal.... I flew home on Monday with sleeve and gauntlet on and was so surprised when I took them off and found my arm had swelled and my hand was also very swollen.  Since then, I have really been seriously dedicating time to going through a series of 13 exercises (takes about 20 minutes) that my LE PT gave me.  But I also had ordered a rebounder while I was gone and that arrived on Monday so I have been really diligent about using that also.  I can't believe how much better I am today.  Going to head over to the health club today and get in a good swim too.  Yes, we will have to hook up at the next get together.

kira66715

Joan--did the swelling go into your fingers? If it did, a glove would be a better idea for the next flight and in general.

You might want to let your LE therapist know--have them check the fit of the compression garments.

Kira 

Valgal

Hi Joan,

Do you think that it would have been worse without any constriction? Have you noticed that the comnstriction exacerbates the problem? I seem to have more trouble the firmer my bra is. I'll see on monday what the LE specialist says. I'm off to swim now . I hope to meet you one day!

Valgal

Hi Kira, maybe you have some info too? Have you ever noticed garments making the swelling worse?

kira66715

Valgal, poorly fitting compression can trap fluid and worsen swelling.

Well fitting garments are key.

And, with my hand swelling, when I add a sleeve, I sometimes trap fluid in the hand, even with a custom glove.

I fly wrapped or with a night garment.

Kira 

Omaz

Morning - What is the rebounder?

joan888

Omaz...Rebounder is a small round trampoline.  Stimulates your lymphatic system and gets things moving.  Jumping rope could do the same thing, but more pressure on your joints and maybe not as much fun either. http://needakrebounders.com/health_benefits.php

I have flown a couple times from Chicago to Seattle without wearing my sleeve when I accidentally left in my carry on bag and had to do a last minute gate check.  Funny thing is that I never experienced any swelling either time.  So, yes, I do think the sleeves can make things worse.    

Valgal

Interesting info  Kira and Joan. Thanks for responding. I'll be interested to see what my LE Dr. says on Monday. Are the night garments different? Are they looser?

Binney4

Valgal, the night garments are very different. They're a double layer of a stretchy material that's stuffed with little foam chips and then quilted in a pattern that encourages lymph to flow in the proper direction. Bulky, but generally comfortable. They're not exactly looser, but they feel very different. Check out Solaris-Tribute, JoviPak, or Telesto-Medtech on this page:

http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Lymphedema_garments.htm

Do let us know how it goes on Monday.
Binney

Valgal

Dear Binnny and Kira,

You are both so informative! Thanks so much. I've been reading alot but I just thought I'd ask- is there anything you would have liked to have known on your first appointment? Any good ?'s for me to ask?

Did either of you take tamoxifen and have either of you heard about LE in your thighs from it? I saw a recent medical article and I have swelling there also.

Binney4

Valgal, when I went for my first appointment I didn't know what kind of training LE therapists should have. She assured me she was "a fully-trained, certified lymphedema therapist." In fact, she had three days of training, and she proceeded to do damage -- under her "care" my strictly truncal LE spread to my hand and arm (wrong exercises, wrong compression garments, no hand protection, ineffective truncal massage).

On the other hand, I can truly say she is the inspiration behind everything I do to advocate for better LE information for both patients and doctors. I don't want anybody to go through what I did.

My second therapist (who I found after educating myself about what quality LE care is and waging a battle with prescribing doctors and insurance) normally dims the lights and plays quiet music while she does her MLD, but with me she just keeps the lights turned up and laughs and says, "Ask away!" because every minute I'm with her I'm asking questions.

So my suggestion would be to ask about everything. What does she plan to do, and why? If her plans differ from the NLN Treatment Position Paper, find out why. What does she expect to accomplish, and how long will it take? Will she teach you self-care: MLD, wrapping, exercises? How available will she be for questions and problems after the initial treatment phase ends? How often will you see her for re-measurement and problem-solving? Will she order your garments or check the fit if you go elsewhere to get them?

Then by all means come back here and tell us what you discover! Every good therapist has unique experiences and wisdom to share, so all information is a treasure.

First time's kinda scary, so just keep in mind that this is all non-invasive and non-pharmaceutical (unlike everything else that has to do with BC!) And hey! What's not to like about a gentle massage?!

Be well,
Binney

kira66715

Valgal,  I completely agree: you go into it with trust, but the therapist needs to be clear about their training and their treatment plan, and how you will be followed up after they "discharge" you after initial treatment.

I hadn't heard about tamoxifen and thigh LE: I know "edema" is a tamoxifen side effect, and some therapists feel that those of us who get LE had some degree of underlying primary LE, so I"d show it to her, and if she needs another referral to treat your legs, have her get it.

Let us know how it goes.

Kira

Valgal

Hi girls!

Well the specialist said that I my surgery arm is noticably bigger than the other but most of my swelling is up at the top, so it isn't for sure LE. He wrote me a script for possible LE PT. So now  I'm starting to get even more worried about the edema in my thighs. Did anyone ever get this from tamoxifen? They are so swollen and hard and I think they are just getting bigger! 

sas-schatzi

YEAH------i viewed the you tube videos. But i closed out of here and went and registered on YT and found access to more than I could get with the hyperlink from here.

found a Yt video page with all the Lymph sites ---massage as directed. Then had an interruption of about 20 minutes. Then went into the pool redid massage . followed directions re: swimming. Then redid massage after showering. First time I haven't had minimal to any swelling and same with pain. My s/p is in the axillary bilat --predom. left/left breast/ pain chest wall/pain and swelling left inner upper arm. Only mention all sites because every thing felt so much better and today when I would usually feel worse every where, it's very good every where except on two spots. Now if i could just reach the back-------------Thanks

TICKLED SAS

Omaz

sas - I didn't understand your post exactly, is there a video of massage that you do in the pool?

kira66715

Valgal, lymphedema can be localized--so just at the top of the arm is very possible LE. Good thing you're getting evaluated.

The thighs are a real concern--can the LE therapist look at them? Also, can you mention them to your doctor as a change in your medical condition?

Kira 

Leah_S

Valgal, my LE is only in my upper arm. LE PT, onc & pcp all say LE. It can happen.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the swelling in the thighs but as Kira suggested, talk to you doc.

Best of luck.

Leah

sas-schatzi

Omaz --sorry i wasn't clear. I did the massage with intent of going in the pool right away. Was interrupted for about 20 minutes. So, once I got into the pool I  redid all the massage points the video recommended. Then swam as directed. Then showered and redid massage. I guess I'm going to be a massage aficionado from now on--sas

Omaz

sas - What is the video?  Thanks

Valgal

Hi Kira and Leah and everyone else!

I have appointments on Mon. and Tues. Monday is the LE and Tues the onc. I'll keep you posted.

Binney4

Valgal, that's good news. We'll be thinking of you, for sure!

Hugs,
Binney

sas-schatzi

Omaz I'll try to refind it and bring the url here

edit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ATaJr6k7Q&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZBZTaZxrXQ&NR=1&feature=fvwp

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY6SDKZGl8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZW58NoVrio&feature=related

these are some sites on you tube . Other memebers might have better choices. Each one of these sites has a different technique. Nothing absolutely specific for the different types of breast surgery. There is one that shows where all the nodes are, I found that helpful. I do know that when I learned how to do the massage as best you can with a video and used the map, I had a change in the axillary fullness that I usually experience. After any activity when I use my arms it feels like a rolled wash cloth in my armpit. After doing the massage three times , then swimming I didn't feel that. So, I have learned something new, The pain I had the lenght of my left arm to my ring finger is 80% reduced. That was 3 LND side. At least at this point I'm going to continue

Very open to any suggestions

Valgal

Hi everyone!

The LE massage was great! My arm felt "normal" for the first time in a long time. I got home instructions and a lot of exercises to do. My domestic situation is in complete upheaval to the point that I don't know where I will be able to complete my therapy -so if you don't hear from me I'm on the run (literally). Wish me luck and I'll stop in as often as I can. Val

sas-schatzi

http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/44/topic/753120?page=73#idx_2184

Anyone having trouble with bra fittings and migrating foobs, this is the site you want to go too. Amazing information.  Will be back want to post this on some other sites ) sheila

Binney4

Sheila, I'm so glad you're finding some relief -- long haul! Please be extra careful of the underwire bra (maybe take the wire out?), because they cut into the lymphatics below the foob and can create a backup of lymph fluid in the breast and chest -- nasty business! Breast/chest swelling is impossible to measure (because our breathing changes the dimensions), but be alert for any feelings of fullness, aching, or puffiness.

Be well!
Binney

sas-schatzi

Binney thanks for the info. Definitely a plus. when the underwire bra starts to feel uncomfortable I take it off, reverse then when braless uncomfortable.- Thamks --binney---sheila

supersally

How long after chemo can I start swimming for exercise?  I think this is a great way to go as it limits stress and pressure on the joints and I have a bad knee and a bad ankle.  Also, the cardio will be great.  I'm now 4 weeks out.  Should I just swim laps or do some specific exercise?