Marriage falling apart

gutsy

I just finished active treatment about 2 months ago. My husband was supportive during my active treatment as much as he can be. Now that I am supposedly all better in his view, he has been very selfish and at times very mean to me. A couple of weeks ago, he said he did not want to be with me because he wanted someone who would nurture him and do everything for him.

 We are supposed to go away this Friday to Estonia where he has a conference. The hotel has not been booked for the first two nights, and I asked him if he could do that. I come home, and he very cross told me repeatedly, that it was his conference and I am just a guest and I have no say. He will do it when he wants to do it, etc, etc.  We have three children and my mother will look after them. I have been the only one organizing everything here at home. I feel like I am walking on eggshells more than ever, and I am afraid that my health is going to suffer. I am afraid the cancer will rear its ugly head because I am under so much stress. I am afraid of the future and feel so alone.

Makratz

I'm glad you are reaching out to us.  It is not good when your relationship is stressed.  Do you think your husband is acting this way because he is scared? I wish I had more advice to offer you.  I wanted you to know you are not alone.

voraciousreader

Gutsy...I am going to say the same thing to you as I said to justsaying. First off, your name Gutsy implies risk taking and strength. You are a strong woman right now. You just completed active treatment and are a mother of three. Right now, for whatever reason, either because of business or the trauma of your diagnosis, he is weak. That is why he is asking for nurturing. Don't be afraid of being stressed. All of us wrap our minds and bodies around stress and somehow pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and move along. Just read some of the posts on the goddesses of the bonfire thread.



I am sending you cyber hugs and encouragement. Right now this is his issue and not yours. I encourage you and your husband to read the Art of Loving by Erich Fromm. Loving requires work. One cannot expect to be nurtured without being willing to do nurturing as well.



My prayers and thoughts are with you. I wish you and your beloved husband well.

Anonymous

I've been around these boards for awhile now and have seen this very same lament from so many of our women. Once the dire part of the trauma is over, the shock of what we've just been through hits. Some of us handle this better than others and sometimes, it is family members who have the extreme delayed reaction. This can take so many different forms, but they are all nerve-racking. I'd advise you to find a counselor you can talk to in order to navigate your own way through the PTSD. If nothing else, you'll have a solid, available sounding board and that alone, will ease your anxieties. As for your husband, it would be helpful for him to seek counseling too, but most husbands in this situation don't see that they need anything but solicitous attention. Maybe giving him a copy of The Breast Cancer Husband, by Marc Silver would help. It can't hurt and the worst that he can do is toss it aside.

But really, Gutsy, this time is about you and your healing. It's a long emotional process for us and you need all of the self-love and support from your sisters that you can get. To that end, I'd suggest trying everything from joining a post-treatment support group (or forming one), to getting a makeover, to taking up yoga and meditation.

Good luck, sweetie. We're here for you and, as voraciousreader points out, you're a strong woman and YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS!

~Marin

gutsy

Thank you so much for your support and wise words. Yes, I should seek out a the possibility of a support group. I have seen a counseller once which was good. I am just so tired all the time and don't feel as great as I think I should. Life is so busy with work and three kids and an unhappy husband. I have a very supportive mother most of the time which is great. It is so nice to be able to share here and people get it and have such insight and wisdom. I was feeling so low yesterday and getting feedback helped me to feel ok again.

Valgal

Dear Gutsy,

My husband recently told me that he wanted a divorce and we've only been married 4 years! He said "but now that you have cancer -  I can't." He's afraid of what other people will think. I'm under his insurance so I am stuck until I get a job. Boo hoo what a shame - I feel so sorry for my retired healthy husband. I think all men can be babies. Just keep saying to yourself that you are strong and that everything will all work out. Hopefully it will. Only you can make yourself happy. On your trip go for a walk or a coffee on your own and remember what a great loving woman you are and how much your kids love you. Hugs to you, and hang in there.

voraciousreader

Ladies...come spend some time over at Jo's Bonfire of the Goddesses thread.  I promise you will feel better!  We have all kinds of treats waiting for you!

debbie6122

gutsy- wow husbands can be so mean and selfish sometimes, I would like to say kick him to the curb but im sure thats not what you really want so i hope it works out for you and he realizes what a butt head he is being0 ((((((((hugs)))))))))

debbie6122

Valgal-Sorry to hear that you are also going through a tough time, what makes it really hard is when you are going through somthing like this and you have to stay in a relationship so you can keep your  insurance- I have read some post at jo's bonfire i think it may just do you both some good-  Sending you big (((((((hugs))))))) too!

Valgal

I'm going to find the Godesses - thanks for the advice. Lots of hugs to everyone.

swanseagirl

Gutsy,

Saw your thread and wanted to send hugs and support from down south in Washington State.

Stay strong xxxxx

Jules

gutsy

We are away in Tallinn, Estonia right now. I have time for myself and it is glorious. I swim every day, have  a short steam bath, eat good food, sight-seeing in a great city. Husband is at a conference all day.

voraciousreader

So sweet of you to let us know how much you are enjoying yourself! We always enjoy good news!!

Rennasus

Gutsy, just found this thread and I'm so glad to hear you went on the trip with DH. (I was afraid to keep reading in case you decided not to go or he told you to stay home.)

Sounds like you are recharging...fantastic! Just what the doctor ordered!!

Is your DH being any nicer to you? Even if he is not, just keep doing what you are doing. I have no doubt that you are a loving, caring woman and he is likely very used to your being that way for him all the time. But when BC strikes, we *can't* give to others at the level we did before. We gotta give to ourselves.

Whenever I feel guilty about taking time for *me*, I remind myself that my health depends on it. I also remember that on airplanes we are told to put on our own oxygen masks first before we assist others. Well, there is a reason for that. And it applies in everyday life, not just on airplanes!

Enjoy your time away and soak up as much joy as you can! ;-)

Parentof1

  Hi there.  I am sorry your husband is not supporting you right now.  You know any marriage is a give & take.  Sometimes we are the givers/nurturers and other times we are the "takers."  Taking is not in and of itself a selfish act at all. 

  You have needs now, as does your husband.  The meaning of nurture is to feed/nourish, educate, train, support.  It is hard to nurture/feed/support another when we ourselves at times have medical/physical/emotional/mental needs.  I know myself. and I can't give to another until my own needs are mean't also.  If I am not feeling well, this affects me in every way possible: Physically, mentally, and emotionally. 

  When I am weak, it's not always my husband of 28 year's that is able to provide the encouragement, and support I need.  The same with my husband.  So we both have friends and other support networks like this, that we go to in situation's like this and one of mine is this board/the forums on this web site!  Then at other times, I am okay with being the nurturer and other times my husband is okay with being the nurturer.  But we are also okay when one or the other says, "I can't right now/today" or whatever the case may be. 

   When BC strikes we physically, emotionally and mentally cannot give to other's like we may have prior to this.  At least I found this to be true,  I had so many needs myself after my BC diagnosis and, some days still do.  But unless I take care of myself...I really cannot take care of, nurture or support another with all I'd like to.

   You keep taking care of yourself, like you are doing and enjoy your time away.  We are here for you:))

betsym

Gutsy,

I'm glad you went to Estonia.  Not sure if you'll remember me--we PMed before you decided on treatment.  I, too, have seen posts like yours.  Emotional fallout is clearly common.  Both of you have been on some kind of wild ride, and now that his part is over (in his mind), yours is too (in his mind).  Hopefully, with a change of scenery and some downtime, you'll each recharge and have time to talk with each other.  Keep taking care of yourself, like Peg said.

betsy 

wenweb

This is a little off topic and I apologize, but it has been an on going issue between my husband and myself, and due to my BC (among other things) has reached a head.  Would it bother any of you if your husband was invited by 2 women to go out for a glass of wine?

LittleMelons

Hi wenweb - I have a feeling for this issue as I have been through something similar.  My feeling is that if this is a get-together for purely social reasons (as opposed to a business meeting over a glass of wine) then it is rude of the women not to invite you or of your husband not to ask you if you wish to go.  A few years ago, a number of young women began working at my husband's workplace.  My husband mentored them and kibbitzed with them a lot.  After about 6 months they started to join the "guys night out" at pubs and bars.  Invitations started coming to parties on weekends to which I was seemingly not invited.  I was hurt, offended, and angry and made it clear.  He has invited me to everything after that.  I believe he loves me dearly and was being thoughtless, but the whole situation made me feel disappointed in him.

What is your husband saying? 

wenweb

LittleMelons He only said that they invited him to have a glass of wine.  There was no mention of my inclusion (or not), but I know that if I had wanted to go, I would have gone.  Due to our past history, I have issues with women who think it's okay to call/text/email a married man and invite him to do something socially with them.

LittleMelons

wenweb - I personally think it is inappropriate for women to invite a married man to do something socially, unless they include the wife in the invitation.  However, some women don't get it.  Once when I was at a work gathering with my husband, two young women said to him "see you Friday" (pub night) and nothing to me.  Unbelievable to me that they would do that, but they were quite friendly to me at the time and seemed to think it was quite normal.  But I wonder how the women who do this would feel if women started asking their husbands or boyfriends to go out socially.  Probably wouldn't seem so fine to them then.

Patriotic

I think joint counseling is in order. I am not siding with him but I am sure he is also experiencing anxiety, fear and frustration, just as we do. My DH has been great but he has had to do more because we have young kids and it's also meant sacrifice for his job, personal life etc. The whole family is adversely affected with this nightmare. Try to work it out, especially with 3 children. I am sure you both have unresolved issues. I wish you the very best. Most importantly, congrats on finishing treatment!

wenweb

LittleMelons I agree with your last statement...if the shoe were on the other foot.  I needed to vent, and in addition hoped to find that I wasn't the only one who was bothered by this type situation.  I guess that so far I'm not the only one :>)  Thanks for your response!!

LittleMelons

Hi again wenweb Not to go on and on (I guess I'm venting, too lol), but I think the husbands sometimes don't get it either. And I'm sure there's a the vanity thing going on there too.  My husband seriously did not seem to understand why I was upset, so I painted him a picture of the reverse situation.  Men from my workplace asking me to go to bars and parties, etc...  I literally saw the lightbulb go on.  The same type of thing happened to a friend of mine.  You are definitely not alone. 

Harley44

I just saw this thread.  The advice from these wise women is WONDERFUL!

I am also having some problems now that my treatment is over.  I am a 4 year survivor.  BUT, always, around this time of year, when I have my annual follow ups, things get very stressful.

I think that my husband thinks everything is all back to normal, and he gets annoyed that I still need  tests...  and it is unclear which tests I need.

My insurance just denied my request for a breast MRI...  I had bilateral mastectomy with reconstruction, and I have been told that mammograms will NOT show cancer, because of the implants....   so I am fighting with the insurance company and now my husband and I are fighting alot too...

Sending HUGS your way!!
Harley

wenweb

Hi LittleMelons, I'm glad that you are venting too!  My husband definitely gets it, but it wasn't until this past fall when he did. Yesterday when these women texted him, he never said whether he wanted to meet them or not, and I didn't ask him whether he wanted to, or feel guilty (which is something I would have done in the past).  He knew that he shouldn't go.  Later, he asked me if I would mind if they came here.  To be a good sport, I said sure, but once invited, he never heard back from them.  What does that say??  Thanks for your support.

Harley Sorry that you have to deal with insurance issues and a husband who wants his wife to be back to normal.  Please keep fighting the insurance company.  I would think that your Dr. would be able to justify why you need an MRI not a mammogram.  Best wishes to you.

sas-schatzi

Wenweb-_---new here, but couldn't resist your comment about the girls not wanting to come to your house. Nice your husband suggested it. Magnanimous for you to agree. Says reams that they didn't respond. If your DH doesn't get what their intentions were now, he's super naive. If it was friendship only they would have taken you up on it. Just because it was two doesn't mean there wasn't a plot. One interested in more than friendship and the other helping her out by being a second friend to make it appear innocent---sas

voraciousreader

I really hate being a contrarian, really I do...but here goes.  Don't shoot me, please!  Has my husband cheated on me in our 32 years of marriage?  I haven't a clue.  Have women fawned over him? Yep.  Still do!  Does he wear a wedding band?  No.  Does any of this stuff bother me?  Nope.  Does it bother him that I'm friendly with many men?  No.  If I ask him to join me and my male friends, does he?  No. 

Years ago, before I was diagnosed, he was diagnosed with a potentially life threatening disorder.  He told me how he wasn't concerned that if he passed before me that I would be lonely for long.  What a guy!  He had already picked out for me WHICH OF HIS FRIENDS WOULD LEAVE THEIR WIVES FOR ME!  Delusional...I tell you!!!

The takeaway is that I am not his mother or his teacher and I will NOT  tell him or teach him how to behave.  He's a big boy and rarely is he dumb, so he's capable of figuring things out for himself. While a marriage takes hard work, the most important component, I think after mutual respect is TRUST.  I TRUST that my husband is faithful and that is good enough for me.  Now if you want to talk about folks that are REALLY, REALLY stupid....like they keep saying on this board, there's no cure for that. Your husband doesn't sound THAT dumb.  If I were in your shoes, I would be working more on the respect and trust issues. 

Just my humble opinon.  Good luck.  I also recommend that you read Erik Fromm's The Art of Loving. 

wenweb

sas Thanks for chiming in, I appreciate your opinion.  My husband is definitely not naive, but rather thinks that I go overboard with my feelings/emotions about the subject since "he is not doing anything wrong, just being a friend"  I do think that (even though he won't admit it) he is flattered that women enjoy and like to keep his company.  

pil

I know I'm not the only one who has been married 36yr to the same man.  My husband acted up too.  I told him get off of it and support me and shut up.  I was there for his 6 angioplasties and 7 way bi-pass and numerous other ways I support him.   He pouted for a while but he shut up and did what he was supposed to do for me. 

Let me say, I did not overcome him with a lot of verbal this and verbal that about my cancer worries.  The overcomplaints and worries wives talk to their husbands about can be extremely stressing to the male.  Males want to fix everything and they cant fix this and so they want to get out of the stress zone in ways that can be divorce, trips alone etc. 

My best help was using these boards right here.   As voraciousreader pointed out re trust is very important.  Some marriage have it and some do not have a good trust bond.

If my husband chooses to leave or cheat on me I cant help it.  What I can help is how I react.  I'm not loosing my life over his selfishness and infidelity. 

Just try and be strong use these boards and whine, rant and rave here. Control what you say to your spouse and try and be happy in ways that do make you happy. I know that is easier said than done. But, if I am happy or show it most time my husband became happy with me and was a lot nicer. I learned that from experience years ago. 

Best of luck in your marriage. ((hugs))

wenweb

voracious I totally get where you are coming from, no worries.  The problem is that I do have trust issues. It started unintentionally from a friendship that my husband had with a woman he had the opportunity to spend many hours alone with. Prior to when this occurred, I had no problems with the friendship, or trust.  Obviously dealing with cancer makes a person vulnerable, which is what I have been. 

Having women soliciting his solitary friendship is not what I need or want at this time in my life.  I have never told my husband how to behave, but have told him how I FEEL, in my opinion, he does not respect how I feel.  He claims that it wouldn't bother him if the shoe was on the other foot.  I have difficulty believing this, especially in light of the fact that he has specifically asked me not to "date' any of his friends if anything were to happen to him.  That doesn't sound quite as amenable as your husband's statement :>)  Thanks for your honest input.  

Thanks pil for your input as well...

Claire_in_Seattle

wenweb....

The answer to your question is a major "it depends".  If business colleagues, I would expect this, and no, you are not invited.  If a couple of close friends, also yes.  I am assuming here, drinks in a wine bar, watering hole/sports bar, and not some romantic spot.

I am also assuming a "happy hour" timeframe.

Sometimes this is part of networking/building your job contacts and career.

I have certainly had drinks with male business colleagues at industry conferences.  I am not married now, but certainly would not have expected my ex husband to attend.  I have met old work contacts for drinks.  Again, we were friends.  Some of these guys were colleagues of mine for more than ten years.

This goes back to the old question about whether men and women can be friends, and just friends.  I have always lived under the assumption that having friends of the opposite sex is possible.  I can count at least a dozen married guys I wouldn't think twice about having drinks or even dinner with.

And, no not to sleep with them.

I continue to be amazed at how many women still haven't crossed that bridge.

So going back to your question.  No, I would not be offended.  I would wish everyone a good time. 

(I would not want to attend a session where everyone was talking about the latest computer upgrade fiasco or latest supplier issue either.  That is what goes on in these meetings, as they are essentially meetings with drinks.)

So cut the guy some slack unless he gives you reason to doubt him.  But having a drink or 2 with female work colleagues isn't it. - Claire