New Study that I just heard about

duckyb1

Has anyone saw the study that says women over 70 who are ER/positive with no no involvement do not better if they get Radiation, and Tamox. after surgery, then  those who have it.........The stats were 98% 10.5 survival yrs for Radiation and Tamox.............96% for women who do not get Radiation and Tamox..................has anyone else seen this......and have any of you questioned your Onc about this study

duckyb1

ok, ladies I screwed that up.........it should say........no node involvement, do no better.........maybe I need a nap.  Sorry

dlb823

ducky, do you have a link to the study?  I haven't heard about it, but it certainly makes sense that women over 70 would have so little circulating estrogen that Tamox or an A/I might make no difference in outcome.  The reason for no RT doesn't seem quite as obvious to me, so I'd be interested in reading the study.  

If you can post the link, be sure to hit the space bar after you paste it, which will turn it to a clickable link.    Deanna

lago

I agree with dlb but there are so many other factors too. Typically older women have slower growing cancer (not all though). Also 98% survival of 10.5 years at age 70 is great even if you don't have BC. I would think that some would pass on other causes in their late 70's… 98% is really high.

dogsandjogs

Yes, I just read about that yesterday.  When I go to my first visit with the ONC I'm going to tell him I don't want radiation due to my age (75) and ask his opinion about medication.

duckyb1

Srbreastcancersurvivor, I agree w;ith you although my tumor was said to be a high 1cm, to a low 2cm.....I have not had surgeyr yet, it is scheduled for next monday the 14th.  i think the proof is in the pudding when it comes to what they do........actual size....node involvement (although they don't think I have any), but I'll believe that when I  see and hear it.........I am 75 almost 76 (April), so living another 10.5 years is a decent age........however ask a healthy 85.5 year old and they will tell you differently......I can't remember where I saw that study for anyone who wants to know.........my kids were furious when I told them I saw it and couldn't remember where.  But when I googled a question about NHI.study about treatment after 70 years, I did find something, but not the exact one I had seen previously.  I am going to keep on trying to find it   After surgery I am going to see what the outcome is........and if it is promising I will approach my Onc. about what to do.  They have already suggested Radiation with Tamox...........As long as this study is right with their final result it might be a way to go...........but then again suppose they are not.............it is a big decision even in the best circumstances........................Honestly as I said I'm almost 76, so living till 86 if your feeling good is not bad.............Face it there are quite a large number of women not living to 86 even without breast cancer, so if we were so fortunate I guess we could call ourselves "lucky".....I would just need a little more certainty.  I would hate to do nothing, and have it spread, then you would be kicking yourself, but then again it would be one of the "what ifs"...............and in life nothing is for sure....  hugs ladies.

duckyb1

DLB823, your right, I would not be certain that not doing radiation is a good idea.......just for any stray cells...........the tamox I can kind of agree with since that is suppose to take care of the estrogen part of this mess, but then I did not change life till late 56, 2 weeks after my husband died.......up to that point I didn't even miss a period or have a hot flash.  I use to laugh and say "I wouldn't know a hot flash if it walked up and introduced itself".  I couldn't even say I was pre-menopausal........everything worked great till 1 day a heavy period...it would not stop, went to the Gyn., he gave me a pill, and the rest was history.  Nothing from that day on.  My GYN was happy cause he actually didn't like me having my period so late.......He said "not good girlie", all this estrogen at your age is not good.   Guess he was right, cause that was the first question the BS asked me when we talked.  My GYN   even did uterine biopsies to make sure nothing was going wrong at that end............I'm shocked BC waited so long to rear its ugly head.  Well that being said I'm sure this study will bring up some interesting questions from the "over 70 group) of ladies who are being diagnosed as I write this.  It would be wonderful if that is another choice we have, but "would we be always  2nd guessing our decision"............hmmmmmmmmm food for thought.

dogsandjogs

DuckyB:

I found the two website that discuss radiation for women over 70. One is Dr. Susan Love Research Foundation and the other is Susan G. Komen For the Cure.

Read them and see what you think.  I can't wait to hear what my oncologist thinks. I go for the initial consultation tomorrow.

gentianviolet

Ladies, I have gone to both web sites and can not seem to find the study about radiation/tamoxifen for women over 70.  Can anyone supply the link?  Thanks in advance. 

dlb823

I think this is the study referred to above:

http://www.asco.org/ascov2/Meetings/Abstracts?&vmview=abst_detail_view&confID=74&abstractID=50014

What I think I'm reading (sorry, it's late and I'm tired) is that RT+Tamox resulted in the best benefit -- an absolute reduction of 6% -- while RT alone did not do as well.       Deanna

worldwatcher

Deanna

That link doesn't work for me.  I have a question for ladies on this thread...did you have chemo?

dogsandjogs

I am seeing my oncologist for the first time today.  I was told after the biopsy that I wouldn't need chemo. Hope the onc will agree.

dlb823

Sorry about the link not taking you to the study.  On that main page, maybe try searching breast cancer 70+ tamoxifen, and it should bring it up.  (I just tried it, and it's the top one it brings up.)

And, yes, I had chemo -- Taxotere & Cytoxin (TC) x 4.          Deanna

gentianviolet

Deanna, thanks for the advice on the link.  I eventually found it by using google and typing in tamoxifen+radiation+70 year old women.  I did not have chemo (oncotypeDX was 11), however I did have radiation and am now on tamoxifen.  I could not tolerate the normal dose and (with the approval of my onc) I have been taking 10 mg. each day.  I did find studies of low dose tamoxifen on the PubMed web site so I just hope that I am not doing something that is incredibly stupid.   

marygardens

Had not heard about the study , but my radiation oncologist had said that it was my choice . Asked him what he would advise his Mom and he said ......after some hesitation  , " I would tell her No "

He did say that I needed to be on Tamoxifen  as suggested by medical oncologist  , based on my pathology . 

I guess every case is different and we make choices based on the information we have at the time .

This was a year ago. 

webstertoo

My mother was diagnosed at age 78-79 and didn't want radiation or chemo. After finishing five years on tamoxifen,  the cancer was found in her liver and  bones.  I don't know what her grade was but believe the stage was two due to it's size, no node involvement.  So it so hard to decide what to do with this disease.  

dogsandjogs

Gosh, I am so sorry about your Mom Webstertoo---

I got too conflicting opinions; my oncologist said that age has no bearing on whether radiation should be done - it depends on the size of the tumor!  He recommended that I get the RO's opinion and said I should get Aromasin (whether I did the radiation or not) Then today I saw the RO who mentioned the study of women over 70. He quoted a difference of only 3% and said I should base my decision on my comfort level; i.e. would I worry if I didn't do the radiation?  He said I could do both rad and Aromasin or one or the other.  I had just about decided to skip radiation, but now reading about your Mom, I'm changing my mind (again)  It is really difficult to make a decision----

duckyb1

i'm back talking about the study again......well it looks like.......even with a ER/PR plus/HER2U-, 1.1 cm. tumor, no node involvement when I asked my BS "do I still need Rads", his answer was "of course"......I haven't talked to him in person yet, but he did not hesitate to say "no" when I asked him..........I also have clear margins......2mm in a large area, and 1.25/ and 1.5 in a small area.............3 DRs. said no need ot go back in (I had entertained the thought), so I go to see the BS on Tuesday.........I might just ask him about the study, to get his opinion, but I do belive I already have his answer, and "my children"...................plus after hearing about Webstertoo's Mom (I am 76, maybe I better forget the study, and just have the rads..........Oh well on to the nest phase................

dogsandjogs

I will ask my grandson today and my granddaughter next week for their opinions. I know cost shouldn't be a factor, but if the radiation will run about $60,000 that means I'll have to pay $12,000. I need a new car so that would have to wait ----

But more importantly, the RO did say there would for sure be lung-scarring, but only 6 to 10 percent of the lung would be involved.  And part of the heart would also be irradiated, though not the atrium (I have atrial fibrillation and am worried the rads would make that worse). He also said there would be possibly some bone pain - but rarely do the rads cause rib fractures. 

So many things to consider for such a small return, but-----

I've been agonizing over all this all week so the atrial fib is almost constant. This is not good as it can cause a stroke.  I need to make a decision soon - sigh---

PS I will take the Aromasin for sure. As the RO said: it is your decision about the radiation, but you MUST do either radiation or pills. 

My navigator nurse said the reason both the oncs have left it up to me is because I'm borderline. If I wasn't they would TELL me what to do, not let me make the decision.