TRIPLE POSITIVE GROUP

PoseyGirl

Hapb,

I was not clinically depressed and yet my sadness and anxiety was profound. So even if these emotions are “short term" (2 months? 7 months? It doesn’t matter), it’s a matter of how to face each day and see some glimmer of hope and how to get out of bed and feed the kids or do whatever it is we need to do.

Mental health is a fluid thing. Clinical or not, when it’s not there, it’s not there. When the house is on fire, it’s on fire. Then help is vital. And we all need to find it in a way that works for us. I am certain you believe this ; I truly believe you support that.

Juli24

opposing opinions and observations are very different than personal attacks. I felt strongly enough about this issue to post knowing that you would accuse me of something or other.....within seconds which is your MO. I honestly believe these threads have the ability to help fellow cancer patients. What doesn’t help is someone getting immediately defensive when challenged with opposing opinions. For that reason I will no longer be posting on this thread. I wish you all the best but cannot tolerate such negativity when there are other threads that want to help rather than preach in such a negative manner. Thanks

PoseyGirl

hi Juli,

Please don’t leave. This thread has certainly had its ups and downs lately, but there is so much info here and vibrant discussion. You are valued here

PhoenixCruiser

I have been lurking on this site since I was diagnoised in September and this is my first post.

First time visiting this topic and what do I find? Another HapB attack. HapB, it seems like you need to step back and take a break. Your posts do nothing positive, they just drive people away. Then again that might be your goal.

ElaineTherese

HapB,

You may not attack people directly, but some of us have felt your wrath nonetheless. For example, after I mentioned that I take three medicines to address my high blood pressure, you posted that high blood pressure is something that can be controlled by exercise and diet alone. So, obviously, I am a moron for relying on Big Pharma for helping me managing my high blood pressure.....

Lita19901

Elaine, I think you expressed where the antagonism toward Hap's posts about medication, diet, etc. comes from in general.

coachvicky

Well, I thought about not posting but here I go.

I lost count of how many times I was offered anti depressants when first diagnosed. The NP at my center insisted I fill her Rx "just in case." She said everyone gets depressed with breast cancer. Dang, if mine had not been found by "mistake" I would not be here today. I wasn't depressed I was joyful. However, I could not concentrate and stay focused.

I saw my Primary Care and he sent me to a Psychiatrist who gave me a battery of tests and talked with me. A Psychiatrist knows the medical side of breast cancer as well as the mind.

Best decision ever as I have been treated for "shock." As I posted previously about 80% of BC Women experience shock at some point. I found the article on BCO and have lost the link.

I believe we should get treatment physically, emotionally, and spiritually as needed on this journey. If exercise works, then do it! If eating X works, then do it!

I am an advocate that the most qualified person treats in their area of expertise. We are all walking in a different lane on this journey.

And I honestly believe there are mentally unqualified providers throwing anti depressants like candy. I think that is the summary of Hap's link.

Vicky

Ingerp

<coachvicky--can "X" = chocolate? ;-) >

coachvicky

Ingerp If chocolate works! Funny story follows: On Easter, our son and DIL went to great links to get a sugar free, gluten free cake for dessert. DH and I savored a thin slice every night afterwards. I was gaining weight. Just a little but still gaining. Son came over for "confession." He called the bakery and asked how they got the cake sugar free. The baker said we don't do sugar free. Son replied that the cake was marked SF. Baker said that meant SOY free. We gave the rest of the cake to them. Sugar is my enemy.

Vicky

Tess111

Ingerp - nodding head vigorously at X = Chocolate. My drug of choice is 3.5 oz bar of Green & Black's Organic 85% Cacao bar. Take 1/4 of a bar a day for regular every day "crap," 1/3 of a bar on stressful days and a 1/2 bar when you learn that your mammogram shows new microcalcifications that weren't on your mammo last year. (They are going to redo mammo in six months. Kinda like waiting six months for the results of a biopsy that everyone is pretty sure is benign but ... I am definitely going to be stocking up on my Dark Chocolate.)

Tess111

Hap, yes, they actually believe that the calcifications are the result of radiation and surgery. There were two radiologists at the Breast Center where the mammo was performed and that was their conclusion. I then saw my CNP at the Breast Surgeon's office and she concurred with the assessment. Today, I saw my radiologist who said the calcifications looked like he would expect them to look from radiation and surgical damage and not like cancer. He said that my original lump did not present as a calcification, and these are located behind my nipple and not at the sight of my original lump. He said they are being cautious with the six month mammo and MRI because of my history. So...

I should also say that I have breast lymphedema, which we finally diagnosed last summer after two diagnostic mammo's, two ultra sounds, a punch biopsy and a consultation with a very smart lymphedema therapist, which happened because my radiologist suggested to me that lymphedema might be the problem. (I got to the right therapist thanks to Binney and the crew who give aid and comfort on the lymphedema threads.)

I love my radiologist. I actually saw him as a second opinion, and he was willing to listen to my concerns and work with me whereas the original radiologist practically patted my head and told me he had been doing this a long time and not to worry. Yeah, that was not going to happen. My point is that I have had issues all along, so no one should worry unnecessarily that they will find themselves in my boat when they have their own mammo.

Good luck on your mammo, Hap.

Tess111

Gee, I don't really know if they left the clip in or not. I saw the films of my mammo, and I saw where lump was taken out. I don't think I saw anything else, so if it's there it wasn't obvious to me. I will have to ask the next time I go into the surgeon's office. Do they normally leave the clips in?

Lita19901

Coach, your takeaway from the article was correct, but you didn’t caution others from taking them. I think the problem within the group is not so much that information is offered but rather that it is then editorialized.

SpecialK

hap - the clips left in the breast are titanium, same material as used for pins, rods, and screws used in orthopedic surgeries, heart valves, and also for artificial joints. It is used primarily because it is super strong but lightweight, corrosive resistant, and generally hypoallergenic. There is that rare person that is sensitive to it, but the vast majority tolerate it with no issues.

I am a bit reluctant to post about anti-depressants other than to say that I agree that they should be prescribed by a psychiatrist If needed for depression because that is the area of specialty most well versed in handling the need. The cited article was a general commentary, and was not specific to breast cancer patients who may have a more sudden onset and unanticipated need to take this kind of drug. However, I would say that prescribing a drug like Effexor specifically for side effects from anti-hormonal therapy might be better suited to oncologists as they may be more well versed in this drug mediating those type of side effects, as long as the patient is well managed in terms of need and cessation techniques. FWIW, I have never been offered any anti-depressant from either BS, MO, or PS. My BS offered limited short term anti-anxiety help but I declined it - but I think it was appropriate in the context of new diagnosis and the attendant stresses.

Blownaway

Not to beat a dead horse...my onco at the time of starting Tamoxifen put me on Effexor for hot flashes. The Effexor didn't do a darned thing for the hot flashes. Gabapentin was thrown into the mix for my neuropathy and Tamoxifen bone pain. Gradually, the dosage were upped several times. Still no relief from the hot flashes so I weaned myself off the Effexor very slowly. I got "brain zaps" which I understand is a common withdrawal s/e. The Gabapentin stopped working as well at 900mg. So Cymbalta was added. Down the road, I got sick of the pill mill and weaned myself slowly off the Gabapentin, Cymbalta and Tamoxifen. Although I was not taking these drugs for depression, I note that I am more easily drawn into arguing with hubby BUT he really needs to watch his mouth, or else!

The moral of my story...yes, these doctors really do prescribe this stuff like candy!

Jagger2015

Hi ladies...it’s been awhile since I’ve been here. Tried catching up on all of the posts but there are so many! I did zero in on the antidepressant discussion though as it’s been on my mind for months.

One of my radiation oncologists told me to watch for anxiety, sadness, mood changes, depression following treatment.... I was certain I would be fine. Lol! And while I’m still taking Herceptin, I feel like getting through Chemo, surgery, radiation, was so much easier than the lows I’ve experienced on Aromatase Inibitors. The last 6 months have been the worst emotionally and mentally for me. My new oncologist changed my AI to Letrozole from Arimidex hoping it would lessen the anxiety, fear of recurrence, tendon issues, joint pain. I was not offered antidepressants at that time but I recently requested them in desperation. I had signed up for group therapy prior to my doctors appointment and they want to see if it will be effective enough. I’ve agreed for now. (I lost my mom a week prior to diagnosis and a very close friend to brain cancer 6 months ago which I couldn’t/ didndeal with during my own cancer treatment). I do have Ativan now when my thoughts completely overwhelm my logic...but will still consider a serotonin ( our happy, flexible, tolerant, sleep inducing neurotransmitter) booster if needed. So far 5HTP ( a health food supplement which is a precursor to serotonin) is working for me along with 5-6 days of swimming laps per week. I took a AI break in December for a happy holiday and recently to see if my plantar fasciitis would resolve. I will stay on my AI’s as required but I’m not happy about it!🤨 From what I’ve read there are only a few antidepressants that work with AI’s...so glad to read all of these amazing tips here on BCO again! 🤓

Lita19901

Hapb, I’m glad you made the decision to create your own thread. I think you’ll be much happier this way.

SpecialK

hap - yes, I believe both Predict and Lifemath calculators are for OS only, not DFS. I am not aware of any calculators that use DFS as a benchmark in results, but there is study data that does. The difficult thing is trying to tease out the population makeup to determine how closely they resemble us as individuals, but because the study populations are more broad, the information is less defined.

Blownaway

I only tookTamo for 3-1/2 years

Blownaway

Hap - Read Lala1's post today on the "Bottle of Tamoxifen" thread

SpecialK

hap - part of the issue is that breast cancer isn't one straightforward disease. What works for ER+, may not apply to ER-, the Her2- patients don't have the same issues as us Her2+ patients. There isn't one treatment for everyone with one DFS and OS. A breast cancer diagnosis consists of many complicated parts. Your diagnosis is not the same as mine even though we are both triple positive. There are so many degrees of grade, tumor size, ER/PR percentages, strong or weak Her2 expression, etc., and seemingly endless combinations of those clinical factors. This is just an example - when someone says exercise may reduce recurrence risk I don't think that can't be applied wholesale to every breast cancer patient. Exercise may not provide a great degree of additional benefit to a very fit person but it might to someone who may be less fit. Since estrogen is linked to body fat, a risk reduction may occur in someone who has body fat to lose, but if someone is very thin this may not apply. It may not apply at all to ER- patients because estrogen does not fuel their cancer. I agree, it is confusing, but that is because it is very complicated. You are never going to find applicable DFS stats because there are too many variables. One of the things we discover as we exit active treatment is that survivorship is really just a roll of the dice. Learning how to live with that is one of the hardest parts of this experience.

coachvicky

SpecialK

You wrote: One of the things we discover as we exit active treatment is that survivor ship is really just a roll of the dice. Learning how to live with that is one of the hardest parts of this experience.

How sad what you write and how right you are. I think it is the emotional part of the journey that is the hardest.

Vicky

Jstarling

I have had no problems with clips from a previous calcification. They always noted it; however now it is gone as part of the February lumpectomy

coachvicky

@ Blownaway ... That is a great post. Thank you for suggesting it. I plan to ask my MO about these suggestions. I am already doing them (exercise, aspirin, fruits & veggies) but want his take as well. Years ago my Momma said that if aspirin had be cultivated and used differently, we would see it as a cure for many diseases and not just for headaches. I have no idea how she came up with this but she was always reading "stuff."

Thanks again.

Vicky

SpecialK

The aspirin info has been around for a while, it is a by-product if the nurse’s study. Interesting aside - in cleaning out my in-law’s study I discovered my mother-in-law was a participant and had been filling out her surveys since the beginning. She never mentioned it all those years but I thank her. This study has provided much info, including the HRT and breast cancer link. What they discovered was that daily aspirin - which many were taking for heart disease treatment and prevention - seemed to be a factor in preventing recurrence in those study members who had been treated for breast cancer. Because this study is self reporting this concept needed further checking. My MO recommended daily aspirin once I was out of active treatment. I found I could nottolerate regular baby aspirin, it bothered my stomach, but I am ok with the enteric coated type.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2849768/

https://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/2011-12/aspirin-prevent-breast-cancer-recurrence

SpecialK

hap - it doesn’t have to wait until Herceptin is done. My understanding is that it is beneficial for the hormonal aspect, has no bearing on the Her2+ aspect

Jstarling

No the 2010calcification was part of the larger tumor.

Mommato3

My cardiologist had me start taking baby aspirin when I had a drop in my EF due to Herceptin. I'm still taking it today.

tld2017

Hi ladies, I had my 4th out of 12 weekly chemo rounds yesterday. My wbc count has slowly gone down since the start of chemo and is now below average at 3.72. Do you know how low it can go before the doctor will stop chemo? I should have asked the nurse yesterday and forgot. Thank you so much in advance for your advice!

Suburbs

Hi tld2017. At the end of 6 rounds of TCHP every 3 weeks, my WBC was 3.2. It was below 4 after first round and stayed that way gradually going down. Some oncologists prescribe neulasta to protect the WBC count which has other side effects which people take Claritin to avoid. My MO did not routinely prescribe this med and did not think it was necessary for me. Your question is a good one to pose to your MO. Best wishes