I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

QuinnCat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_RSQSYgGB4

Yorkie - did you ever see this one?   

YramAL

And critics jump all over President Obama for using a teleprompter.....

Kam-it was explained to me that Tamoxifen works as a "blocker" to the estrogen receptive parts of cancer cells,it sort of fills in the spaces so the estrogen can't get in. I'm taking Tamoxifen. 

Mary 

pupmom

LOL, oh the memories! "The American people are working hard to put food on their families." "I know that fish and human beings can co-exist." "Is our children learning?" ROFL! 

QuinnCat

Mary - thanks.  So many things to consider...post-menopause, pre-menopause, brca positive or negative, tamoxifen verus aromatase inhibitors.  I was just looking up luminal B ER+ PR- high Ki67, high oncotype (me) "subtype" this morning. Gads, the journal article was saying chemo and hormone blockers have little effect on this group.  WTF?  I'm basically a triple negative being treated with the kitchen sink.   Ok, back to ovaries...the day after my ooph, I started gettting hot flashes...my surgeon said it is possible, even in menopause, my ovaries were putting out drops of estrogen (despite being on hormone blockers).  I think that is why I thought they would prefer one to not have active ovaries with ER+?

YramAL

I actually have a set of coasters with Bush-isms on them. "We'll let our friends be the peacekeepers and the great country called America well be pacemakers." and "I understand small business growth. I was one."

Mary 

QuinnCat

I saw this one live on C-Span - I couldn't believe my ears:

Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country.  

YramAL

And to make it even more confusing, your body still produces some estrogen even if your ovaries are removed. Not sure where, though.

I think at some point, I just have to trust that I am making the right choice for me, and live my life. 

Mary 

ananda8

Laugh all we want, Bush was elected twice. 

Debates don't matter; flubs don't matter.  What matters is what people say to friends when they think no one else is listening.  The 47% is what will cost Romney the election. He spoke about it with passion in his voice; he took his time to explain what he meant; he called half of America irresponsible.  His speech wasn't a flub. It was a description of what he will actually do to the Veterans, the unemployed, the under employed, those on social security and the disabled.

pupmom

Kam, OMG, that was probably the best of all! People were talking about it for years!

rosemary-b

The bad news is that the fat in our bodies can make estrogen.

pupmom

Mary, I've heard estrogen is produced in fat cells. That's why we are all urged to stay or get trim. I have about 10 pounds to go until I feel good about my weight.

QuinnCat

The adrenal glands produce estrogen...via a different chemical mechanism.  Aromatase.....I was just trying to understand why being BRCA2 made estrogen protective for BC before menopause, but dangerous post-menopause (I had read this and my ooph surgeon MO confirmed this), and then felt taking estrogen would have prevented my BC in menopause.  My surgeon said the reason "is complicated" why this would not be a good ting to do but I think the answer is in the way the breast tissues react to the estrogen coming from the adrenal glands versus the ovaries.

Back in the 1960's, they knew some women had positive results from blocking estrogen and some didn't, but they didn't know why, so in my mother's case, they removed her ovaries and adrenal glands (experimental) in a hail mary....she was probably ER- or she might be in this subtype of ER+ that it doesn't matter.  Removing my mother's adrenal glands had grave consequences.... 

YramAL

Yes, I have heard that, Rosemary. Thanks for the reminder about fat on our bodies.

Mary 

QuinnCat

Oh yes, the body fat too!  And to add to that, an Aug 27th, 2012 study stated that women with a BMI >30 at time of dx had 30% higher chance of recurrence and 50% higher chance of death.  Also, BMI > 25 at age 18 (presumably they were looking at estrogen exposure over their lifetimes by including that stat.)

QuinnCat

Notself - Bush was selected in 2000 and Kerry had Ohio stolen from him, so he was not elected, in the purist form, either time.

1Athena1

Oh...the topic of periods is my nemesis. I had an endometrial ablation almost a year ago so I no longer bleed like a river or suffer from amnesia as I used to. However, I think Tamoxifen has brought on early perimenopausal symptoms. I am having hot flashes and severe insomnia twice a month, my comorbidity is more difficult to treat and I am ready to insist on HRT. I am very skeptical about the effects of er-treatment for er-post cancer and I don't want to die of something else, including the SEs of meds I have to take in order to live through these symptoms.

Grrrr....

Your biggest risk for cancer: being alive!

Your biggest risk of bc: being a woman.

Until they find a cure, our doctors should let us take a holistic view of our health - what I mean by that is that we should ensure good QOL and not go through hell over some bogey man that, for some, existed but no longer does. And if the cancer comes back --which it can-- we'll deal with it then.

Probably not being as explanatory as I should. Point is: until they have a cure for BC, they shouldn't tell was what the statistics say and make us worry like hell.

Some even say smoking lowers the risk of er-pos BC. So we should all smoke??

That's one reason why I hate pink. It pretends that all of these questions have easy answers and solutions. They don't.

gardengumby

Mary, you're lucky that you can take tamoxifen.  Even though I am post-menopausal they first tried me on tamoxifen - the SE's were horrific for me.  I've been on letrozole (femara) for almost a year now, and the aching and tiredness get to me.  I don't mind hot flashes (LOL) as I really enjoy being warm and it seems like I never am.

I am, though, one of those short fat women who really need to lose weight and seem to have an impossible time doing it.  I've gained 10 pounds since surgery - even though I get up every morning and exercise, and I don't eat badly at all.  I tried one of those online diet things once (can't remember the name right now), but if I ate as much as they said to eat, I'd weigh twice as much as I weigh now.  My husband keeps telling me that once I retire I'll lose weight (as I ALWAYS lose weight on vacation when I can actually get enough sleep).  I keep hoping he's right.  We're having a real estate lady come this week (I think, unless hubby has changed the appt time - I can't keep stuff in my head anymore) so that we can get the house listed. 

I've got to get a few more things to consignment shops (old dishes and suchlike) as we simply cannot move nor store as much sh*t as we've got.

1Athena1

Kam: Re: Rove telling Wbya what to say - amazing that no one said anything about it. We had a puppet emperor for eight years.

QuinnCat

Athena - as far as the cure for BC, it seems to me the more they learn, the more complicated the answer gets.  e.g. BC is really 20 different diseases (genetically driven).  My cousin is BRCA2 like me and she chooses QOL over any treatment past surgery and radiation.  She even does HRT despite being ER+.  Now that I'm aware of one particular subtype of ER+ that doesn't respond to hormone blocking, I'm thinking she is on to something (besides QOL).

As far as W...truth is stranger than fiction and our press is just irresponsible or too afraid to lose their status by truely investigating anything these days.  Thank god he's gone. 

Garden  I'm with you on the weight loss...this last study scared me to death as I've been dealing with a weight issue since 2000. I've managed to lose 14 lb since dx, but have a ways to go.  I've decided retiring would be the best solution for losing too.  I'm more relaxed, more time to exercise...especially in the winter. Are you staying in Seattle once you sell your house?

Bren-2007

Mary ... I tried Tamoxifen and Arimidex.  I couldn't take either one.  They made me so sick.  The nausea and vertigo were debilitating.  I couldn't even drive or walk a straight line.  The Tamoxifen also made me so depressed ... I was crying all the time.  I tried it for six weeks.  I only lasted one week on the Arimidex.

It's kind've scary though not taking an estrogen inhibitor as I was 100% ER positive.  But, it's been 5 1/2 years since my surgery so I would have been done taking the medication by now anyway.

Taking the medication is no guarantee the cancer won't come back.  I think the stats only improved my recurrence rate by 3% with taking the medication. 

I think Scoot has been taking Arimidex for awhile now ... and her stupid cancer came back.  Wondering if she will continue to take it as I know the side effects are really hard on her.

Gumby ... I gained a lot of weight after my surgery.  I was put into instant menopause when the took away my hormone replacement pills.  I finally, after a year of hard work, lost 46 pounds.  It's so hard to lose weight when we're menopausal.

hugs for everyone,

Bren

208sandy

I'm another one who "failed the AI test" - Femara and Arimidex - and yes E has suffered from the se's and has now had recurrence and it does happen - when I talked to my onc and pcp I told them QOL was more important to me than longevity - onc wasn't happy but it's been almost three years since I ditched the drugs and it's allowed me to have an active life - everyone needs to be able to make these decisions for themselves - I believe that if the drs. would just try these drugs for a month we might see some pressure brought to bear on big pharma for better solutions - at the very least we'd be spared the "lectures" and the lies "it's part of the aging process".

RetiredLibby

Blue, the pix are beautiful! Josie is gorgeous, and I love that little man of yours. He is going to be a real heartbreaker when he is grown!



I took tamoxifen from December 1, 2007 until I was dx for the second time June 21, 2011. I didn't have terrible SEs from it, but I had some -- plantar fasciitis (which resolved within days of stopping), a little mental fog (which resolved somewhat, but I am 55, after all, so who knows how much was tamox and how much was being in my mid-50s). Instead of thinning, my hair got positively bushy (on humid days I looked like Diana Ross!). All the tamoxi-hair fell out when I stopped (the bathtub looked like it was growing hair!) but has since grown back. While tamoxifen failed me in the larger sense (I recurred), I can't in good conscience say that it failed me entirely, because I recurred with DCIS. It may have kept the cancer DCIS instead of IDC.



Re: periods. I had regular periods every six weeks like clockwork once I stopped BC pills at 50 when I was first dx. My gyn did estrogen levels and they were those of a 25-year-old! (ovulating like crazy -- just what most 50-year-old women DO NOT WANT TO HEAR!). When I recurred, I demanded a BSO and everyone nodded enthusiastially. I started my period the morning of my ooph, and the path report said I had a luteal cyst on lefty. I was ovulating WHILE I WAS GETTING MY BSO!! AGH! (I told my gyn surgeon that I did not want to be taking my 10-year-old with me to apply for Medicare!) I am delighted that they're gone -- my gyn, who ROCKS, told me that my breasts tried to kill me and the ovaries were in on it, so she was thrilled that the whole murderous bunch was gone. Me, too!



L

River_Rat

Blue, loved the pics - gorgeous daughter, cuddly grandson - sorry you couldn't wear the red shoes and I hope your back feels better soon.

HL, your story sounds very similar to mine - 53 when dx'ed and way too much estrogen, also turned out I had a precancerous endometrium so I ended up having to have hysterectomy and ooopherectomy.

I ran into a funny Bill Maher clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEElA5b4AkM&feature=player_embedded 

bluedahlia

Kam, did your mom get Addison's with the removal of her Adrenal gland?

Thanks to all for the compliments!

YramAL

I am so grateful that I can take Tamoxifen and have minimal SE's on it. I'm scared to death to change to an AI if I do become menopausal. My sister-in-law took Arimidex for a couple of months because she had a total hysterectomy prior to diagnosis. She ended up with grossly swollen joints and had to use a walker. Her SE's on Arimidex were so bad, she was taken off of it, and she now takes Tamoxifen even though she is post-menopausal. I think the theory there is anything to help. She's feeling much better on Tamoxifen.

At the rate I'm going, maybe I'll never have to take AI's. Maybe my 5 years of medication will be over before I go into menopause.

Mary 

ananda8

http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2012/09/webb-hammers-romney-on-military.html

Anonymous

Thanks notself, Senator Webb speaks for so many of us.  HE is a real hero.  BTW, have any of Willard's sons served in the military? They all seem so fit, and strong...just wondering...

pip57

Blue, I was wrong.  I thought it was Eaton Hall at Seneca.  Looks very similar in you beautiful pics.

I will take hot flashes over periods any day.  Had the ablation years ago and it worked well enough.  Hated tamoxifen.  Doing well on Arimidex. Onc is leaving me on for a 6th year and I am fine with that. 

pip57

Kam, still laughing at your clip!

pupmom

Sunny, I doubt Mitten's sons served because if they had we'd be hearing about it ad nauseum.