I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

pupmom

Nooooo, not suzie too!  

Enjoyful

kay -

I sent a private message to the Moderators regarding the situation, including their banning of Athena and Sunflowers. Additional private messages to the same effect may help.  Then again, they may not.  All in all, it's probably the most effective use of our time other than writing to sponsors.  Having said that, I don't think sponsors would take much notice of our political or personal bickering.

I believe that the reason given for Sunflowers's banning is thin, and Athena was given no reason at all.  This type of moderation doesn't bode well for the rest of us.  Heck, the Moderators may not like this post and ban me for it.   Who knows?  But as several people said, it's BCO's board and their rules.  We either abide by them or skedaddle.  (Note to Mods:  "skedaddle" is not a code word.)

Scoot

gardengumby

I would like to add something to what the mods posted above.  Some people have stated how easy it is to check for duplicate IP addresses, and if there is a duplicate ban the person.  If that occurred, I would probably be banned.  I DO NOT HAVE A DUPLICATE USERID, but I am quite sure that there are other people who work for the same employer I do and who are members of BCO.  The odds are high that  at least two of us read and post from work.  All communication from our network to anywhere in the Internet carries the same IP address.  Ergo, multiple userids with the same IP address.

I'm just sayin' that even when things seem like they'd be easy.....  well, maybe they aren't quite as easy as we'd like 'em to be.

alexandria58

Yorkie - sorry i meant to say sunflowers.

  I have used up my limited pm privileges for the day due to - well, I'm not quite sure - but anyone wanting to send me a message otherwise can send a message, and I can e-mail you on your private e-mail.

ananda8

gardengummby,

I suggested that there be a search based on IP addresses.  If one IP address had two or more member names linked to it those member names would be sockpuppets.  One IP - two or more ID's.  I hope this clears things up.

1Athena1

Oh, for goodness sake - how did I get squashed between TWO buffalo bulls.....yikes...I almost didn't make it!

Landed on feet (sort of) looking around to see who's where....

pupmom

Thanks for clarifying alexandria. I was really getting freaked!

YramAL

Yay Athena! You're back! 

Mary 

1Athena1

For the record, I just got reinstated by the mods, who apologized for not undoing the system ban or getting back to me me last night. Thanks to the mods for acting on this.

I still want sunflowers back. She is a valuable member. This is indeed a thread of friendship and support, and we need Sun (and Susie) to make it work - and Blue! It's ALL of us who make this friendship thread work.

I also want to say for the record that my personal views on alt./conv. therapy have never played a role. I judge based on character (and forensics, but let's no go there....)

Shaking head to get flies off....

I am so glad I have you all. I was ready to stomp out, but I'm glad I didn't have to.

1Athena1

Mary - love the avatar!

YramAL

Look through the thread...there are a few of us dressed in sunflowers and lions. 

Mary 

gardengumby

notself - please re-read what I posted.    Multiple userids - single IP address - exactly the problem if multiple BCO members would post from a single employer's network.  Most/many company networks send everything out to the internet from an EXTREMELY limited (usually just one) IP address.  I'm not saying there aren't a number of sock puppets, just that it can be more difficult to "prove" they are, than one might think at first blush...

WELCOME BACK ATHENA!!!!!  Doin' the Happy Dance!! 

Love your Avatars Mary and Scoot!

pupmom

Glad you made it back to this part of the jungle Athena! 

YramAL

Speaking of work-I have a question. How does one write a letter of recommendation for someone when one feels they aren't really qualified for the job? My co-worker asked me to write a letter for her, and while I feel she is a wonderful, hard working person, I think the job she is applying for is way over her head skills-wise. I don't want to say, "No, I won't write you a letter....." Do I just write a letter focusing on her good personal qualities and work skills?

Mary 

kayfh

That was so cool! Needed to get one of those!

alexandria58

YEAH ATHENA!!!

1Athena1

That cub is adorable, kayfh.

Tough issue, Mary. I would tell the truth, and only mention those qualities that exist without directly answering the question of "can she do the job." That's the new employer's judgement call anyway.

pupmom

Mary, I would sit down and talk with her honestly about it. Unfortunately, employers can see through half-hearted endorsements. Unless you choose to lie for your co-worker's sake (it happens), your luke warm letter won't help her any.

YramAL

I won't lie, that's for sure. It's for another job within our school district, so any lies I make will come back to bite me. I think I'll just write a letter highlighting her personal qualities and let my omissions speak for themselves.

Mary 

alexandria58

New avatar for me, too.

Enjoyful

Loving our sunny and catty avatars!  ;-)

1Athena1

Love them too - Scoot, I am amazed at how you managed to do the montage of lion and sunflower.

ananda8

What a relief to see you back Athena.  This whole thing was getting me down.  Now I am up and waiting for Sunflowers.

1Athena1

Thanks Notself -and everyone. Sitting up waiting for Sunflowers too.

Wabbit

Waving happily at Athena!  Now if we just had our sunnyflowers back to brighten our day.

Mary ... I think you can honestly write a letter focusing on her good personal qualities and the work skills you have observed.  Dependable?  Willing to do whatever is asked?  Helpful?  If she does not have the experience and knowledge needed by the new job that should be evident from her resume and it's up to the interviewers to figure that out IMO.  Now if she is not dependable, helpful, willing to learn and all that then you are in a pickle.

kayfh

What White Rabbit said.

I've faced this as well. You also cannot second guess the hiring team. Maybe they think it is time to hire someone who has the ability to grow into the job. If she has good personal skills and you have observed good work habits then it would be useful for the hiring team to know that. I have found that often when people assume the responsibility of mentoring a young/promising person that they both benefit. And so do those who follow behind. Well mentored women (of course, and men) become mentors in turn.

kayfh

You did say she was a wonderful hard working person. On occasion, those people also try hard but their skates are dull. How does one write the reference letter when THAT is the case?

alexandria58

To be lawerly about it - and because although I am supposed to be writing today, I am clearly trying to find ways not to - I do not think that a ban on sunflowers is appropriate under the rules as outlined by the Mods.

So as self-appointed counsel, I submit my argument:

This, I believe, is the rule under which sunflowers was banned:  When there is clear, repeated disrespect of the Moderators, or fellow members, this too will result in a ban.  

The effective words here are clear, repeated disrespect.  It would have to be this rule, because the interaction was private and between the Mods and sunflowers. However, it does not appear from the pms that were recited in this thread that there was clear, repeated disrespect.   Going through this word by word, it does not appear that the disrespect was clear in sunflowers first response to the Mods.  The Mods asked Sunflowers to report who was being talked about as a sock puppet.  She declined to do so, stating that it was So obvious.  In itself, this does not appear to be clear disrespect.  Disrespect generally involves something more than a simply refusal to follow a request or a slightly snide comment, clear disrespect should be an even higher standard, either name calling, or some other more heated comments than were evident here. For something to be clear means that it is unmistable, undeniable, or obvious. The Mods may argue that the use of the word "So" indicates attitude of disrepect of their abilities to find the Sock Puppet.  However, even if there was any disrespect, it was not clear disrepect.

While SunFlower's later response, after the Mods suggested she no longer be part of the community is a stronger case for clear  disrespectful, there is the mitigating fact that it was  provoked by the Mods suggesting that she could be banned - if she hadn't already been banned for her first response. 

Nevertheless, since the earlier comment had not been clear disrespect, the latter comment certainly could not make her remarks clear, repeated disrespect.   I would further dispute whether anything in this exchange could be considered repeated, even if the earlier comment had been disrespectful, since it was essentially all part of one exchange, initiated by the Mods.

Since there was not clear, repeated disrespect, then I respectfully submit to the Court that the rule was inappropriately invoked to ban Sunflowers.  As remedy, I respectfully request sunflowers' immediate reinstatement.   

I rest my case.

RetiredLibby

Alexandria, it sounds good to me!  You're my kind of lawyer! 

I have a new picture, too. 

L

gardengumby

Well, I've had a sunflower all along, but in support of Sunflowers (and since Athena is already back) I thought I'd change my avatar to a NEW sunflower. 

And Alexandria - Great argument IMO.