I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Alpal

Let me make this clear - I am not Canadian. I have Stage IV Cancer - what if some doctor in California (I live in KY) came up with a wonderful new treatment for BC? Let's say between the doctor's bill and the hospital bill the total cost would be $100,000. Let's say my wonderful BC/BS plan said "Hell no, we're not paying, that's experimental." Would you suggest I have a bake sale to raise money to pay for this treatment? Maybe 10,000 bake sales. No, you'd suggest I sit home and die because I don't have $100,000. Maybe I could buy a small piece of artwork to make myself feel better.

Edited - this is not directed to any one person. You'll all know who you are.

IronJawedBCAngel

ljh58,

I am so glad that you are so proud of this American system and that you have a policy and the money to access health care.  You are so much more fortunate than so many of your brothers and sisters that live here.

I am also an American,but while I love aspects of this country, I am not at all proud of a system that allows citizens to go without health care, and even die because of it.  There are far too many of us that go without basic health care, never mind being able to access preventative screenings and treatments for more life threatening conditions.  I am not proud of a system that sees individuals and families losing everything they own, including their homes, because a family member was unfortunate enough to become sick.

I contemplated not responding to your post, because I believe that maybe you and some others think that things have been a little too quiet here. I suspect your comment implying that its ok for others to go without so that you can buy art was another attempt to inflame passions to the point of more post reporting, and the ultimate deletion of this thread.  I do grant that it is very possible that I am wrong on this point, and that you are not the tag team member of the moment, in which case I apologize.

I just want to point out that there are many Americans who are not happy or proud of our American health system.  We are not getting "top notch care", in many cases we are not getting any care at all.  That does not make us "un-American", or mean that we love our country any less than you do.  What it means is that we understand that it is our patriotic duty to stand up for the rights of the less fortunate, and that we can make this country better by acknowleging what needs to be changed.  

I love art, in all forms.  I genuinely hope you get great joy out of what you can afford.  However, it's a sad fact of life that for many, the price that you pay for that next sculpture or painting, would pay for a life saving mammogram or other basic health care that they are denied. 

I love this country, but I also believe that our citizens should enjoy the same right to health care that other industrialized nations enjoy.

pip57

You just need to read some of the posts on BCO to see what the real situation is.  It seems that the women who do have insurance have more problems.  The insurance company decides what tx they will get, not their doctors or themselves.

shokk

I would say blue up until last March most people had their health insurance through their employer and was considered part of a job benefit.........

Some people would purchase it on their own just like they buy Life Insurance or any other kind of insurance they decide to........

It is like buying anything on the open market.........

Some people purchase pet health insurance but I would assume that most that have pets don't and hope for the best........

there are people who really don't believe in insurance and never purchase any........up until last March it was their constitutional right......but not anymore.........shokk

rosemary-b

Shokk

Are you saying the story about there being no room in the Inn and the baby had to be born in a stable is not true?

pip57

shokk....are you saying that people need to be more careful about the insurance they are relying on?  How can they do that when it is tied to their employment?  And how do they know what the company will chose to cover down the road?  That seems to be a huge issue for a lot of ladies on BCO.

Anonymous

PIP - your statement is absolutely not true !!!   But it did make me laugh.....so thanks

pip57

My gp owns a huge home in the country.  She also owns one in the sunny south.  She drives a high end BMW sports car convertible.  She takes several cruises each year.  I really don't think she is suffering financially.  And... she deserves all of it.

rosemary-b

Hi Erica

Could you please clarify which statement of PIP's was so funny? I need a good laugh!

shokk

Maybe konakat your bf refused treatment........which was his right.......didn't mean that the hospital refused to treat him.......maybe they told him how much it was going to cost and he decided against treatment.......

 Insurance companies refuse all the time to cover certain costs......and procedures.......it is usually covered in your "explanations of coverages"........especially in experimental procedures........but that doesn't mean you can't get treatment......there are usually all kinds of grants that are available......your bc specialist would know about that.........

And no it hasn't been too quiet here.......I respect blue and her trying to lighten things up here....she is one of the best people I have ever encountered.......but when people are posting things about not being treated because they didn't have insurance simply is not true......there is a prime example of someone here that posts frequently and like I said had no health insurance and received excellent care........

Sometimes things are repeated and repeated and everyone assumes that what is being repeated is true........and many times it simply isn't.......it is nothing more then spin........shokk

pip57

Shokk...if that is true, I would be very apologetic for my misconceptions.  However, how do you respond to the countless women here, on BCO, that have to fight with their insurance companies?  Are they lying?  Misrepresenting the facts?

shokk

Rosemary...............no what I was referring to is that there has been medical horror stories for thousands of years..........

And no PIP I am not saying you have to be careful about what insurance you get or have.......all I am saying is that insurance has always been an option........not a requirement.........

Usually through an employer you are not required to join their plan......when I worked for a large company medical insurance was a benefit but not required......you could opt out.......many young people did........take the money that the employer would have paid to their group coverage and just pay the employee that money directly to them.........shokk

rosemary-b

Okay Shokk but I believe the example you posted about the stable was not a horror story but the truth.  I think a lot of us do, and using as an example did nothing to advance your cause.

shokk

PIP you have never heard of the Medical Insurance/Medical Providers Square Dance??????

 It goes on every day.........go to the library and pick up Medical Insurance Digest and then get a copy of Medical Providers Journal and you will see that both are trying not to be taken advantaged of and sc***ed by each other......it is a very precise dance........sly moves........romantic at times........dangerous at other times.........I would suggest you take a flask with you.......you will need a drink.........shokk

BarbaraA

Blue, do you have a favorite fava bean recipe? I could use some dopamine about now.

IronJawedBCAngel

I live here in the US, and I am not getting health care paid for by the generosity of others.  I have insurance with a high deductible, I can not afford to go, therefore I am not getting health care.  There are millions like myself who are in the same situation.  We fall in between the cracks of our society, because we are "underinsured", we have insurance, but not the means to pay for the out of pocket expenses.  We have jobs that make us ineligible for assistance.  Komen paid for my mammogram last year, I will not ask them to do so this year, so I have yet to make my appointment.  

I do not consider health care a service. For most, at some point in their lives, it is going to be a necessity, which is why I do not think health care should be a "for profit" business.   If the US system was truly one of the best in the world, it would not rank towards the bottom on every study that has been conducted, which is why we also rank low on longevity and quality of life studies, as they are closely linked.

I believe I will go have that drink now, and have another look at the "ignore" button.

rosemary-b

I've got Wendy's fries and a coke for dinner. I made a casserole but nobody was interested. My son went to Wendy's so I guess the casserole is for later.

molly52

ljh58 - may I restate what you have said to see if I understand?

People who have no health insurance or cash, can go to a county hospital.  The county hospital will bill them for the medical services.

Did I get it right?

bluedahlia

I buy the frozen ones.  Chop up an onion and saute it in a little oil.  Add frozen fava beans and a little water.  Cook low heat until soft (You might have to keep adding a bit of water).  Add a bit of salt.  Cook your rice (I like Jasmine Rice) and serve.

kellyj

It is true that a hospital can refuse to treat you... They have to offer life saving support, and then they can refuse to give you further treatment, that may save you in the long run.  So, like Konakat said, they could refuse a stable person (her BF)  more advanced medical care if they are unable to pay.  However, a county hospital may  extend those services. Not really sure.  The hospital would never leave an IV or a shunt in purposely, that would be grounds for a law suit.  A patient can choose to walk out though.  

rosemary-b

In the 3 counties closest to me there are no county hospitals. What happens then? Is one hospital designated to give charitty care or do they all have to?

BarbaraA

Yum, I am headed out to the store.

kellyj

I don't understand, nobody is being disrespectful.....why start in with food and have another look at the ignore button.  We let you all gush about Chelsie Clinton without any remarks. 

annettek

BarbA- you are right in that treatment can be received by those without insurance - SSDI is a bit different since it is government sponsored health care (my son with autism has it but I have him on my work policy to ensure he receives the care I choose.

Speaking from experience - whenmy oldest son was injured ina horrific bike accident he thankfully received the top notch care the houston med center had to offer...saving his leg and his life. The third day he was there out of a 14 day stay we watched a young man being discharged with a BROKEN neck in a brace and being told to stay still til he could make it back to some clinic or he risked complete paralysis...this is not a story I heard...it is something I saw and heard myself...I asked the nurse how could this be? That he could die. She said we can only stabilize after giving the essential treatment. Nothing beyond. And as all of us know, the beyond is usually what either saves us or makes a quality of life impact.

All of my many cousins in Canada seem to be a healthy bunch with few qualms about health care and certainly less than I hear down here. One broke her leg on a ski trip to Montana and the govt sent her back on a plane to canada for the surgery! Several aunts had horrible hearts with one receiving a heart transplant and another multiple surgeries. What is interesting is that they are all varied in employment from one end of the scale to the other and all and I mean ALL of them seem to have extra money to travel and enjoy themselves just a bit more than most down here. Not sure if it is a mindset or what, but I have admired that for years. No now country gets it right but like anything I look at the results from the actual people living that experience. We are so fortunate to have neighbors to the north that are so stable and have sent troops to support virtually every battle in which we have fought. They just tend not to start them as we are wont to do....I am proud to be an american as it was a specific medical treatment that brought my parents here for my sister in the early 50's...she was one of 10 children *6 years old) to have the first open heart surgeries...the doc in Toronto arranged for them to get her in the program in Ann Arbor. It is interesting when you think about it...we are ALL american in that we live in north america...and then subdivided into united states and canada...but I think we would be sorely misguided to dismiss canada as it is an incredible country - we tend as a people to kick them away so I guess I can't blame some when they get a chance to bite back a bit. It is like anything...you get the short end of the conversational stick long enough and you will pick up that stick and whack away! ahem...anyway, I will get off my soapbox now and just say viva la difference we can all learn from each other...every one is a little bit right and a little bit wrong, eh?

rosemary-b

Kelly

We do flit from topic to topic don't we? Maybe the food talk is because it's dinner time. 

bluedahlia

Well if they send you the bill, then its not free, is it?  I'm sure they can garnishee your wages, if you're not on disability.

annettek

medical bills are the number one reason for bankruptcy in the us.....

or one of the reasons -see below from investopedia.com

The bankruptcy statistics in America are alarming. The past few decades have seen a dramatic rise in the number of people that are unable to pay off their debts, and Congress has recently addressed the issue with legislation that makes it harder to qualify for this status. Following is a list of the most common causes of bankruptcy in America today.

1. Medical Expenses

A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

Rare or serious diseases or injuries can easily result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills - bills that can quickly wipe out savings and retirement accounts, college education funds and home equity. Once these have been exhausted, bankruptcy may be the only shelter left, regardless of whether the patient or his or her family was able to apply health coverage to a portion of the bill or not.

konakat

They didn't leave in the shunt and IV purposely then kick him out.  My BF got pissed off when the hospital's financial planner (and 3 others in the room, a doc and I don't know who the other 2 were) was pressuring him into agreeing to a payment plan for treatment that would ruin him (the pmt plan, not the tx). 

He told me he'd prefer to go into such debt sending his daughter to college, not for his own heathcare.  Since he couldn't pay, they denied him more treatment.  Once he got them out of the room he detached himself from the lines (he used to be an EMT and knew how) and came home with the left over bits dangling on his hand/arm and near his own dangly bits. 

OK, I'm done and onto the second row of my cookies!

1Athena1

This thread has gotten interesting again - in a way. I suppose some people just have different values and don't see guaranteed access to health care as a right. I'd like to see them say that, though, rather than defending our system as though it were morally defensible on the basis of  economic rights. The conversation, ultimately, isn't about health care but about values. We've been through all of this again and again, though so I pass - to a point.

KK - You boyfriend's story reminds me of a scene in Michael Moore's documentary, in which an indigent patient is seen being let out into a shelter by a taxi, still looking dazed and ill and dressed in a hospital gown. In another scene, a man actually stitches his own wound at home because he cannot afford to go to the hospital. 

Maybe we need more documentaries - such as the one showing that famine - not merely hunger - existed in the US in the sixties. There was no way to doctor images of babies with protruding bellies and ribs and leg bones sticking out. The documentary caused such a stir that Sen. Bob Dole, a republican, teamed up with Eugene McCarthy, the former democratic presidential candidate, and together they created the Food Stamp program. It was a great bipartisan moment in which what counted were values. It showed what a civilized country is capable of.

Anyone interested in a quiz?

Try this: Number of people in the United States living in poverty in 2009 (Source for right answer: US Census)

1) 29.3 million

2) 10.2 million

3) 42.9 million

4) 36.5 million 

 Anyone care to guess? No cheating :-) 

konakat

60 Minutes also exposed this practice at a hospital in LA.  Stabilize the patients and drop them back on "skid row".

I did have to google the US's total population.  I'd guess 36.5 million.