I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

kadeeb

Blue, you have a mean cruel streak. But we love it!

Medigal

Blue:  Only the ones who show up for Mass every Sunday.   Since I don't, I guess I am innocent!! The ones you are thinking of aren't even listed in my names.  Those people play for keeps!

bluedahlia

Cicc' a porta!  LOL!  Love that line from G/F2.  That's my dialect, so it's even funnier for me!

kadeeb

Don't forget to run up the clock. We loose an hour tonight in the good old USA. That's what I need. Something else to rob me of an hour's rest. Does Canada do daylight savings time? Everyone here does it but Arizona I think. That's another of those ideas by some government office that didn't do what it was suposed to.

riley702

Beesie, thank you for your last two posts. You may not be an American, but you "get it" about undecided people like me not being the complete drooling idiots some think we are. I'm an independent. Neither party represents me totally. I like some things about both the Repubs and the Dems, but vehemently disagree with other things. My vote is always a compromise of which issue or issues mean the most to me any particular election cycle. I will never mindlessly vote a straight party ticket, as I equate that with checking your brain at the door. And although my job is white-collar, my roots are proudly redneck, hillbilly, hill-jack, peon, peasant or whatever other epithet the elitists use to denigrate folks they look down on.

apple

"as I equate that with checking your brain at the door."

nice post Riley..  I find it very irritating that specific issues are represented by parties.   Why should voters have to compromise what they wish or believe in when financial contributions pretty much determine what is on the radar?   I wish we could vote on issues rather than on people standing for 1/2 of them.  

BarbaraA

Hear hear Riley and Apple. Same here. I will vote issues rather than party.

Iodine, sorry I offended you with the term redneck. I did not mean it in a derogatory way, only as a descriptor. I led a fairly sheltered existence when I lived in DC and had exposure to mostly other professional people. Not saying that's good or bad, it is just how it was. Here in FL, I meet and am friends with a much more diverse group of people. I could never be friends with some of these people if I was still in my liberal-elite mindset I had while living in DC. So the move here to the south has been good for me. I have broadened my exposure to all facets of life.

And Blue, if I do find it, I will be sure to let you know what it is.

leggo

kadeeb, everyone in Canada does do Daylight Savings Time, except for Saskatchewan.

1Athena1

Beesie, I take issue with some of the things you say about US politics, though. I have no knowledge of Canada, but the US system seems to expect far less strict party allegiance that many European countries. I would refer to Barbara's and Apple's and others' views as examples of what seems quite typical. You have to register as a member of a party to vote in the primaries, but the registration is not binding, and in many jurisdictions you can cross over to vote (state party apparatchiks make the rules).

There isn't much party allegiance here at all compared to other democracies. It tends to really be about the issue. That is why the Tea Party was formed. Tea Partiers, like many others, identify themselves in several ways. Some might say ""I am a Tea Party independent" just like others say "I am a moderate republican" (that has almost gone the way of the dodo in Congress but I suspect there may be more out there). 

I think our weak sense of party identification it is because we have such a powerful lobbying system at the grassroots and Washington levels alike and the different interests really make themselves known. It is also a huge country with a long agenda, period. Never a dull moment in the US, thank God. So many democrats and republicans will really identify more with their positions on guns, abortion, civil rights, etc.... and will vote for whichever candidate matches their view on that signature issue for the person. We are very much an "issues" country more than a "party" country.

We are also country where being a republican or a democrat comes with local flavor. You have republicans in states considered to be liberal who arguably lean further left than some democrats in states considered to be conservative. There are some republicans in New York and California who would likely pass as democrats in other states. This is true of politicians and voters alike.

I have grown up/lived/gone to school in three regions in the US and seen these differences (Florida, New England and now in the Mid-Atlantic). I have also grown up/lived/gone to school in four democracies (two in Europe) and appreciated the other differences. So I think I've ventured somewhat outside of DC in honing my views and positions. In fact, I am not from DC at all; I merely live here, and, in this, I am typical of many people in the city. Many people in DC are transplants from elsewhere and have themselves lived in many places. There are cocoons, but more by neighborhood. DC itself is impossible to categorize. Also, it depends on who is in power. The place was flooded with conservatives from Texas during the Bush years. Now, more libs are coming back.

Very far from being driven by party allegiance, the US electorate is highly mobile in its affiliations, IMO. That is why there is so much discontent with both parties. Personally, I stopped expecting anything from a "democrat" or "republican" since the day on which I was eligible to vote, I think. And many comments on this thread suggest that others feel the same way. 

This lack of "party discipline" says a lot about the US in ways good and bad, IMO. It says how dynamic we are, what a myriad of issues our national debate room brings to the system, but also how out of focus and lost we are and how inadequate our political system is in addressing so many of our grievances.

annettek

since moving to Texas almost 30 years ago I have been fooled enough at first glance thinking with my yankee brain to underestimate what I thought was a "redneck" and then gone on to be poleaxed to discover the actual person beyond my perception...case in point: my husband had a blast after I was laughing about the "hick" he introduced me to not long after moving here... back home in Deeetroit that twang and those Lee jeans just didn't *play*...he let me go on and on...shaking his head...I was such a little snob, I thought I was being gracious when I conceded he seemed like a nice guy but really, *country* was just not my deal...fast forward, guy was a CEO of a major corporation who came by to meet my husband's family to make sure he was good people before helping him establish his remodeling company in his very expensive zip code. Hee haw, what a jackass I was and his graciousness and class helped me become more of who  I had thought I already was - an intelligent person with an open mind...he is gone now a decade from a heart attack but we miss him so much. Not his money, but the dignified gentleman who would reserve an entire restaurant to surprise my hubby for a fancy birthday lunch and on other days. pop back home while same hubby was remodeling their manse (which I know now did not need all the "work" he asked for) and make PBJ sandwiches for them and talk about what really mattered in life. My husband had never been close to his dad and in Bob, he found a mentor-father figure who told him he probably would never be rich but he had the heart to be what really mattered. Ah, I really miss him. The lesson is not that just the "rednecks" who happen to be multi-degreed gazillionaires in blue jeans makes them somehow more ok ok-for I have since met many a good country folk that might be a closer fit to whatever stereotype that is out there who gave so freely of whatever it is they had in heart and soul- it is just about that good people are good people and we might miss them if we don't see them...and that would be a very sad thing. I cringe to think what the hell some people think when they meet my ownself...I get a lot of "Gal, with that mouth you gotta be from New Yawk City! " It used to piss me off but now I kinda like it...I have become a lot of folks' pet yankee -Hell, I even use stereotypes applied to myself - it all depends on who I am talking to and how I wish to portray myself.. I will say I am from "suburban Detroit" (being my liberal little white girl self as I was raised-fond of the city but quickly establishing that I was not raised inside that tough city's limits) or sometimes I AM from Detroit (the hard ass chick from the Motor City who you better not mess with because baby she is street).... I love the South, the North, the Midwest...the East and West Coasts and let's not forget Canada...hell, all these regions and the rich histories and traditions to explore...it's great...I know I sound kind of Kumbaya but I am still learning and that is kind of cool when you are an old lady who can still feel a child's wonder over it all and realize I can be so wrong about so much...bada bing:)

1Athena1

annettek:

Don't even get me on the topic of stereotypes - I have fought those all my life. It's incredible the way people can jump to conclusions based on how you speak, what your name is, what your address is, what your gender is, what your vote is, etc.... Even your diagnosis - and I'm talking about the breast cancer one. People jump to all sorts of conclusions about what you are supposed to be thinking or feeling (one reason why I never tell anyone anything -lol!)

As for insanity, don't even go there - I don't know what makes me laugh more: the people falling over themselves trying to be politically correct about it or those telling you their kooky theories about what really ails you. Again: reason to not disclose anything.

Edited to add: But here is where I am typical of many in my fair city of DC: I am an workoholic. Off to work now. It's a relief to be typical of something, at this point - lol!

annettek

I hear you Athena- my olive skin (result of armenian dad and hungarian mom) has gotten me accused more than once of denying my "heritage" by not speaking spanish! WTF? now I just laugh and say yeah, you're right hahahah

1Athena1

Big sigh annettek - been there - not regarding skin color, but in other ways in which poeple say "But wait, I thought you were...." My answer "you didn't think - you assumed."

kadeeb

I love to have some dumb a$$ come in the office and ask to speak to someone in charge or go to an administrative meeting out of state and have someone ask me if I'm the so-in -so's secretary. You see, I not only have a southern drawl but have been blonde since Loreal went into business. I usually just smile, put on the dumb blonde act and giggle for a while till the moron hangs him/herself then I explain that I am the boss, but maybe I slept my way to the top. Walk away! Usually leaves them with their mouth open and gasping for breath. I used to have a hang up about being recognized for my accomplishments, after BC, I know my accomplishments are mine and what others think doesn't mean squat to me. Getting older and having faced some of the things we've all faced has made me realize that my ego, abilities or belief in myself, isn't defined by someone else.

edited to add: or any label someone comes up with. 

crazy4carrots

Speaking of stereotypes -- did any one watch Saturday Night Live last night, with the skit about Canadian television?  The accents were a quite a bit over-the-top (yes, we do clip our words) but the toques and heavy sweaters and the sheer "niceness" and "politeness" of the TV hosts made me roar with laughter! 

I've always been interested in accents and am amazed at how a river ) can make such a difference!  Both my Buffalo neighbours across the Niagara River, AND my Michigan nieces across the St. Clair River say "dahler" instead of "dawler" like we do, and only a river separates us.  U.S. newscasters generally strive for the "mid-Atlantic" accent which is probably most like the general Canadian accent.

It's really a pity that we let accents and cultural habits different from ours influence the way we think of others. But, what is commonplace in North America is also commonplace in most parts of the world.  Just human nature, always wanting to categorize/stratify people...

apple

I am thinking Canadians sound uber-Minnesota?

crazy4carrots

We sound like the late Peter Jennings, or Mike Myers, or Dan Ackroyd, or Ryan Reynolds, or Ryan Gosling, or Rachel McAdams, to name a few!  (I was going to add Justin Bieber, but we don't say "like" quite so many times in one sentence, thank goodness!!).

lewing

I didn't know Ryan Gosling was Canadian!

L

crazy4carrots

Oh yeah - we grow them good lookin' and/or hilariously funny here!

Beesie

Athena, sorry if you feel that I misstated some things about the U.S. political system. I'm thinking that the degree of party loyalty in a political system may be in the eye of the beholder. What to you might seem like a system with a "weak sense of party identification" and without "much party allegiance", to me looks like a system that is dominated by strong allegiances to political parties. I appreciate that you see it differently; I make my comments based on my observations, having lived in both the U.S. and Canada and having closely watched both political systems for 35+ years (since my days as a Poli Sci student). I can't speak about the degree of party loyalty in Europe (although I'm intrigued by your comments that you believe that it's higher there than it is in the U.S.) but I can compare the U.S. to Canada. As I see it, these two countries are worlds apart when it comes to the allegiances of individuals to political parties. But let me be clear in saying that this is just my observation and my personal conclusion, and nothing more.  

By the way, I think your example of the Tea Party is an interesting one.  While I understand that the Tea Party formed because of issues and was driven by a dissatisfaction with the existing parties, in the end, the Tea Party candidates all ran as Republicans.  Compare that to Canada, where 2 parties have dominated forever and yet there is always a 3rd party (sometimes with strong support; sometimes with weak support) and much of the time there are reasonably well supported 4th and 5th parties (regional or special interest). While the same two parties are pretty much always at the head of the pack federally (though not provincially), their support can rise or fall by as much as 15 points from one election to the next. In fact one of the two major parties at one point dropped down to minor party status and came back to life by merging with a new 3rd party that had come onto the scene (but only after this new party had stood on it's own - very successfully - through a couple of elections). At a provincial level (equivalent to state level in the U.S.), it's a whole other ballgame, with some of the smaller parties winning at the provincial level.

So as you can see, there is a lot of give and take within the Canadian political system and not a whole lot of party loyalty. That's the basis of my comparison when I said that "we don't have the same party allegiances that you have in the U.S.". I think that's the line in my previous post that you objected to.  To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that all Democrats and all Republicans are the same and hold the same views, all across the U.S..  I know that each region has it's own flavor. And I know that there are many people who vote by issue rather than party and who may identify themselves as Independents.  That's a growing group. It get that.  But still, when I observe the U.S. system, I see a lot more party allegiance than I see in Canada.  That's all I was saying.  I find your objection to my comment to be kind of interesting, because it's actually a really common observation in Canada when we talk about U.S. politics (which we do a lot).

I think it's probably best if I exit stage left on this discussion now. I should know better than to get into a discussion about politics. I jumped in only to try to explain why I feel differently than you do about "undecideds" since if I were American and voted in your elections, I suspect that I would be "undecided" a lot of the time and as far as I know, I don't have any cognitive impairment!    

Linda, I agree. We do grow 'em good looking and funny.  Dan Ackroyd's always been my favorite. 

BarbaraA

DInner tonight is hormone free Florida Beef eye of round roast (you can order online), mashed sweet potatoes, and the one and only brussel sprouts. Dessert is, if I can do it without DH seeing (cause he will eat all of it in a day or two) So Decadent coconut milk cookie dough gluten free ice cream. OMG! Forget the beef, gimme the ice cream.

konakat

Pasta and ice cream.  Yawn...

1Athena1

Beesie, I hope I didn't upset you. Please don't "exit the stage." I always learn a lot from you. I don't see disagreement as discord and I'm sorry if I projected otherwise.

You know, I think a lot of the differences between the US and Canadian systems may boil down to the US being a presidential system and the Canadian being a parliamentary one.

As party allegiance goes, parliamentary systems sort of go both ways. In one sense, all of these factions form and they stress party allegiance, but they are just as likely to then break up and form into other parties. I am thinking of Western Europe, especially France and Italy.

In the US, maybe because of the country's sheer size or perhaps because the executive is so strong, the incentive to really differentiate by party may be less strong.... My personal observation is that in the US people seem to vote with more than one hat. When it comes to choosing a president there are only two names to choose from (there are more, but in real terms only two) and that is it. So many voters calibrate their votes and may choose a president who goes one way, ideologically, and then vote for a senator or US rep. that goes the other way. Also, because so many states have their own ballot measures and also, because we have a federal system, people in this country can vote in a myriad of ways. In a non federal system (eg: Britain) you can't really calibrate your statements at the polls a much. There just aren't as many levels of government or authority. Maybe our crazy patchwork of jurisdictions is what keeps us from forming different party factions, coalitions allegiances, etc.... to the extent that most smaller, parliamentary systems do. Just speculation. I don't know. So the two parties live on, and nobody feels really represented.

As I say, I know nothing about Canada's system so I can't comment, and perhaps I cannot appreciate your comments as well as I might if I knew where you were coming from (meaning, if I were more familiar with political life in Canada).  

1Athena1

KK - I will say "yawn" to my dinner menu too. I haven't yet chosen it, but I know it is going to be "same old, same old" of something.

rosemary-b

Corned beef and cabbage for dinner cuz nobody will be home Thursday

I'll probably have Greek yugurt for dessert. That stuff makes me purr.

iodine

Oh, your healthy people!  We're having pancakes and bacon!

crazy4carrots

Potato gnocchi with tomato sauce (from home-grown tomatoes!) and Asiago cheese, salad (from DH's indoor garden) and maybe a couple of President's Choice mini chocolate eclairs later!

Time change made me get up late so I had lunch instead of breakfast.  Not sure why we STILL have daylight savings, since it was a WWII measure -- but it sure messes up one's day when it begins!

Athena, for those of us who live in a parliamentary system, with more than 2 national parties, I think it's natural for us to look at the U.S. and see significant polarization between the Democrats and the Repubs.  Perhaps because of the media, we don't quite "get" the nuances.  I think your Supreme Court is a good example of this apparent polarization.  With your judges elected for life (ours are required to retire at age 75) it becomes even more apparent that SC decisions are sometimes based less on the law and more on the political persuasion of the judges and the President at the time who appointed them.  I don't recall any Cdn Supreme Court decisions that have been challenged because of which Prime Minister appointed which judges.  And that's a good thing, I think!

But both systems declare they are democratic, which, as Winston Churchill said, is a poor system indeed, but not when compared to all others!

1Athena1

Lindasa, and Churchill was, IMO, almost always right.

BTW, speaking of judges, Clarence Thomas hasn't asked a question in five years:

February 12, 2011 No Argument: Thomas Keeps 5-Year SilenceBy ADAM LIPTAKWASHINGTON - The anniversary will probably be observed in silence.

Here is the story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/us/13thomas.html?sq=clarence thomas&st=cse&scp=2&pagewanted=print

Medigal

iodine:  They can have their "healthy" food.  I would go for your pancakes but without bacon!  We done have pancakes for breakfast but sometimes I make a big batch for supper and DP loves our pancake suppers.  Yummy!

bluedahlia

WE had home-made pizza. Ray Just loves it. I make the best pizza. We're having Rasberry pancakes tomorrow night. Too busy this morning to make them.