I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

bluedahlia

Love it Sunny!

bluedahlia

This guy cracks me up!

IllinoisLady

Sun -- I read and thoroughly enjoyed the links you put in for Blue.    I'm constantly amazed at those who decide what the Bible says.  Granted, there is a huge amt. of materials there, but jmho I think most people are familiar with how it is written now....which is somewhere along the lines I think of 26 re-writes.  The first Bible was written in Aramaic......and doubtful many ( if not 99 and 9/10ths. % ) today ( including myself first here ) could read this Bible.  The people were much simpler then and many were not educated so a great many of the teachings were in parable form.  

I may be a bit jaded but it does seem often that lots of religions are still in the money making business.  Does not mean you should not go to the Church of your choice......again, just my thoughts ,but I do think many people find hope and inspiration in sharing their religious experiences together whenever their Church meets.  I really don't think a loving God though makes that  or anything else a huge CONDITION.  Again my own humble thought says to me.....if you REALLY care about a God or a higher being, or however you might view this, you will likely do fine.  It all in the caring.  Sounds easy but I found the need for a fair amt. of digging and some soul-searching too.  It is a daily experience of adjustment for me, but worthwhile.

Jackie

disclaimer:  Just my viewpoints from my 68 years -- I don't need anyone else's agreements or dis-agreements.  This mainly for those who feel the need to criticize the words Good Morning.

IllinoisLady

Wow !!!  If that is character, thanks, I'll go without.

Jackie

Edited :  As my dad would say " What a croc ".

bluedahlia

Even as a third grader in a Catholic school run by nuns, I used to give the Parish Priest a run for his money.  We had some pretty interesting discussions.

IllinoisLady

Have to copy and paste this piece and hoping it comes out okay. 

Pope Francis Condemns Racism And Declares That “All Religions Are True” At Historic Third Vatican Council

December 5, 2013 · by Diversity Chronicle · in Christians, Homophobia, Immigration, Intolerance, Islamophobia, The War On Women

For the last six months, Catholic cardinals, bishops and theologians have been deliberating in Vatican City, discussing the future of the church and redefining long-held Catholic doctrines and dogmas. The Third Vatican Council, is undoubtedly the largest and most important since the Second Vatican Council was concluded in 1962. Pope Francis convened the new council to “finally finish the work of the Second Vatican Council.” While some traditionalists and conservative reactionaries on the far right have decried these efforts, they have delighted progressives around the world.

The Third Vatican Council concluded today with Pope Francis announcing that Catholicism is now a “modern and reasonable religion, which has undergone evolutionary changes. The time has come to abandon all intolerance. We must recognize that religious truth evolves and changes. Truth is not absolute or set in stone. Even atheists acknowledge the divine. Through acts of love and charity the atheist acknowledges God as well, and redeems his own soul, becoming an active participant in the redemption of humanity.”

“Through humility, soul searching, and prayerful contemplation we have gained a new understanding of certain dogmas. The church no longer believes in a literal hell where people suffer. This doctrine is incompatible with the infinite love of God. God is not a judge but a friend and a lover of humanity. God seeks not to condemn but only to embrace. Like the fable of Adam and Eve, we see hell as a literary device. Hell is merely a metaphor for the isolated soul, which like all souls ultimately will be united in love with God” Pope Francis declared.

In a speech that shocked many, the Pope claimed “All religions are true, because they are true in the hearts of all those who believe in them. What other kind of truth is there? In the past, the church has been harsh on those it deemed morally wrong or sinful. Today, we no longer judge. Like a loving father, we never condemn our children. Our church is big enough for heterosexuals and homosexuals, for the pro-life and the pro-choice! For conservatives and liberals, even communists are welcome and have joined us. We all love and worship the same God.”

One statement in the Pope’s speech has sent traditionalists into a fit of confusion and hysteria. “God is changing and evolving as we are, For God lives in us and in our hearts. When we spread love and kindness in the world, we touch our own divinity and recognize it. The Bible is a beautiful holy book, but like all great and ancient works, some passages are outdated. Some even call for intolerance or judgement. The time has come to see these verses as later interpolations, contrary to the message of love and truth, which otherwise radiates through scripture. In accordance with our new understanding, we will begin to ordain women as cardinals, bishops and priests. In the future, it is my hope that we will have a woman pope one day. Let no door be closed to women that is open to men!”

In addition to the Pope’s sweeping calls for tolerance and a new progressive understanding of Catholicism, he condemned racism, raising his voice and pounding the podium in front of him. Pope Francis spent over an hour castigating anti-immigrant politicians, parties and individuals. Wagging his finger sternly with righteous indignation, the Pope shouted “Racism today is the ultimate evil in the world. When Italians, Spanish or French turn back the boats of African migrants seeking a better life, are they not like the inn keeper who told Mary and Joseph that there was no room for them and the infant Christ? These migrants are children of God and we are commanded to love them!”

His voice loudly echoing through St. Peter’s basilica, the Pope stated “those who would dare to turn immigrants away, be they legal or undocumented, turn their backs on Christ himself! A racist is not a true Christian. A racist casts aside his humanity to become a beast, a demon! He is the embodiment and personification of evil, a Satan!”

To a chorus of thunderous applause, Pope Francis stated “because Muslims, Hindus and African Animists are also made in the very likeness and image of God, to hate them is to hate God! To reject them to is to reject God and the Gospel of Christ. Whether we worship at a church, a synagogue, a mosque or a mandir, it does not matter. Whether we call God, Jesus, Adonai, Allah or Krishna, we all worship the same God of love. This truth is self-evident to all who have love and humility in their hearts!”

In a announcement that shocked many people, Pope Francis warned that “those who seek to deny a home to the migrant, to the African and the Muslim, risk their membership in the church. We will consider excommunication for those whose souls willingly dwell in the darkness and evil of intolerance and racism. Satan himself is a metaphor or a personification, for the collective evils of mankind. Today, these evils manifest foremost as racism, intolerance, religious persecution and bigotries of all kinds.”

A couple of prominent Catholic cardinals have responded to Pope Francis’ declarations by leaving the church. Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria asked, “what do we stand for if we declare that truth is relative? On the contrary, truth exists independently of our personal feelings. All of this talk of love and tolerance is hollow if we have no identity of our own, if we stand for nothing. I charge that Francis has become a heretic, and that he is not a valid Pope. Indeed, Francis is no longer even a Catholic. The seat of Saint Peter is vacant. I am now a Sedevacantist. I should have become one long ago. The Vatican has embraced ecumenism in the past, but worse than that, it has now embraced moral relativism on abortion and homosexuality. At the same time it is embracing moral absolutism in favour of illegal immigration and cultural genocide against Europe.”

In his most controversial statement, Cardinal Arinze said “Islam has overrun my own country, and now it threatens to overrun Europe. Some parts of Nigeria now live under Islamic Sharia law. Catholics there are no longer free to practice their faith publicly. Francis is a fool if he thinks that his liberal immigration policy will end well. He has betrayed western civilization. Vatican City will one day become a giant mosque if things continue in Europe along their present course. Those in the West who ignore this truth, do so at their own peril.”

In an angry and vitriolic rant revealing deep self-hating tendencies, the African Cardinal Arinze stated “There is nothing wrong with Europeans who want to protect their borders. The problem is that there is not enough border control and the immigration policies are far too lenient in Europe. Is it racist to desire to preserve one’s own home? Why is it racist to want to preserve your own culture and a future for your people and your children? Have white people gone stupid today?”

This much is clear, the Catholic Church has made a decision to rejoin humanity and to reject intolerance and extremism. The church has lost a few narrow-minded bigots, with reports of some small parishes and a few cardinals and bishops defecting, but Pope Francis has gained the friendship of the world. Pope Francis deserves praise for taking a humane stand in defence of human rights and against bigotry.

Jackie

a grown-up is in the room.

IllinoisLady

duckyb1

Blue.....was looking at the How we got cancer thread and saw your name while looking through it...was told to go back on by one of the ladies...............wow....remembered your thread, and being on it for a bit...

Wondering how you are.......hope your good.....hugs

bluedahlia

Jackie, his speech made me cry.  Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!  We hear the words of Jesus.

bluedahlia

ducky, I'm doing great!  Glad to see you!

Bren-2007

Hi Gals,

Lots of rain today!  But I'm having a wonderful day anyway.  Spent the day with my sis and BIL and we had lots of fun.  Then I came home to a bunch of work!  Yay!  The more reports I get in the better the paycheck.

Ducky ... It's lovely to "see" you again.  You've been missed. I hope you'll post here more often.

hugs to all,

Bren

RetiredLibby

Ducky, so nice to see you again!  Stay with us for a while and chat - we would be delighted to have you!

Re: the "Conservative" "Bible" ( both in quotes because anything they would produce is neither truly conservative or a bible), the thought makes me laugh.  So, they believe that the Bible is the word of God directly from God, but they are going to rewrite it because it isn't conservative enough.  HAHHAHAHAHAAAAA... Like they know what the original Aramaic said.  Or the Greek.  And as far as different "versions" of the Bible .... Cue heads exploding when one reminds them that one of their gods, one of the holy Founding Fathers (you know, the ones who DIDN't found this country on Christianity), Thomas Jefferson, created what is popularly known as the Jefferson Bible, in which he simply compiled everything that Jesus was reported to have said in the Bible.  It makes for very interesting reading all gathered together like that.  You know - the brown-skinned Socialist Jewish guy.  

Ya know, before we hear any more baseless whining about Christmas and Christians being attacked (again, I submit that if you aren't being imprisoned or killed for celebrating Christmas or going to church, you are not under attack), I'd like to remind those who are doing the whining that they would have a lot more pleasant experience if they would stop attacking other people because they don't believe what they think people should believe.  IOW, MYODB. It is none of your damn business who or what or how or whether other people worship.  Tend to your own knitting and worry about your own relationships with whatever deity (-ies) with whom you may be connected. 

And yes, I am an agnostic tending toward atheism and it is none of your damn business.  I am much more concerned about making this world - the only one we know we have - a better place for everyone.  Any world after this one will take care of itself.

Anonymous

Jackie - OF COURSE posts are for all, just wanted to draw special attention to it for Blue.

LOVE LOVE LOVE the "speech" you posted.  Now THAT is a Pope I'm interested in listening to...whew, betcha alot of folks are squirming as they read, listen to it.  Especially:

In a speech that shocked many, the Pope claimed “All religions are true,
because they are true in the hearts of all those who believe in them.
What other kind of truth is there? In the past, the church has been
harsh on those it deemed morally wrong or sinful. Today, we no longer
judge. Like a loving father, we never condemn our children. Our church
is big enough for heterosexuals and homosexuals, for the pro-life and
the pro-choice! For conservatives and liberals, even communists are
welcome and have joined us. We all love and worship the same God.”

IllinoisLady

I read this piece some time back and it said something like this:  Don't be distracted by criticism.  Remember, the only taste of success some people have is when they tale a bite out of you.   Then I sort of thought what a valuable service is provided here......every conversation that takes place is fully digested elsewhere so someone can have a life. 

So the other mention is how much I enjoyed what Pope Francis had to say in the Third Vatican Council.  Everything I've heard him say just makes me feel that he is ready to use good old-fashioned and so often not easily or quickly used common sense.   Reminds me as well of some lessons of long ago to take things down to the lowest common denominator ( especially when they are functioning very  poorly ) because there was an earlier time when they were functioning in a better way.  I think that operates something like the Peter Principle.  Something is in-competent  now that wasn't before. 

There will always be someone who wishes to rebel ( we have seen that very often in the extremist camp ) and Pope Francis will have detractors too -- but he doesn't just say it, he lives it, and common sense, truth, and decency will never go out of fashion.     Sometimes you have to get real and those who can't will be somewhere along the wayside.

Jackie 

IllinoisLady

IllinoisLady

And a little something on the light-hearted side:

God was talking to one of
his angels. He said, “Boy, I just figured out how to rotate Earth so it creates
this really incredible twenty-four-hour period of alternating light and
darkness.” The angel said, “What are you going to do now?” God said, “Call it a
day.”

Jackie

pip57

I have always thought that different religions were neither right or wrong.  They simply offered individuals what they need in life. For example, those who need strict routine will choose one with many rules and rituals to remind them to lead a "good" life.  Some people just know what is right and just and need less reminders.  And in between the extremes are all the other religions.  

IllinoisLady

This is from Newsmax....I hope it prints:

Breaking from Newsmax.com Designer of AK-47 Assault Rifle Dies at 94 Mikhail Kalashnikov, the designer of the assault rifle that has killed more people than any other firearm, died on Monday aged 94, Russian officials said. Kalashnikov recently said his pride in the AK-47, which went into service in the Soviet armed forces in 1949 and is still a mainstay of Russia’s military and police, was mixed with the pain of seeing it used by guerrillas, criminals and child soldiers. Read More Here

Jackie

River_Rat

Just stopping in to wish you all a very Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/felicitations of your choice!

Bren-2007

Hi Everyone,

Happy Christmas Eve!  I hope everyone is able to be with their family and loved ones for the holiday.  It's just going to be Tim and I for Christmas this year.  Mom will be at my brother's and not sure what sis is doing ... think they're going to go on a 12 mile hike on the Appalachian Trail.

It's cold today .. wind chill is in the low 30's and somehow I've got to drag my ass outside and walk the dogs!  Then finish up a report and start working on dinner.  My sis and BIL got Tim a beautiful ham for Christmas.  Yay!  Can't wait for dinner.

Hope you all enjoy the day,

hugs,

Bren

gardengumby

hi everyone. Hi Ducky..  good to see you on this thread. Feels like home. .  Jackie thank you so much for posting Pope Francis' speech. I surely do like this pope!!!

Happy holidays everyone! Yesterday I cooked my a$$ off. Right now we are on our way to Port Townsend to have Christmas eve dinner with my Hubby's family.

My BIL bought me a great bottle of wine as a Christmas/retirement present.  I hope to have a glass of it tonight.

 I really like this retirement life.  

bluedahlia

Merry Christmas everyone!

P.S.  Nothing says Christmas like an AK47!  hahahaha!  Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Anonymous

Merry Christmas

HAPPY FESTIVUS

Pagan Peace

bluedahlia

bluedahlia

Bren-2007

Blue .. those little shitzoos (sp) are so cute! 

I was just reading the thread in the Relationship Forum about Comfort Dogs.  Sent me down memory lane to when I was diagnosed and my Bobo was right by my side through everything.  He would have made a great comfort dog.

Gumby .. so glad to hear you're enjoying your retirement!

Hope everyone is having a wonderful day.

hugs,

Bren

pip57

Merry Christmas everyone.  Let the eating begin!

208sandy

Merry Christmas and the eating has already begun!

RetiredLibby

Cooooooookies!

IllinoisLady

Hope you all have a fabulous Christmas -- break out the wine and cookies.

Jackie