I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

River_Rat

I would be hesitant to pile on without knowing as to what the other side thinks of her.  In other words is this the view of the  Murdoch media or both the conservative and liberal media.  I say this after seeing what the conservative media here has painted Obama out to be.

208sandy

I've done some reading on the subject - think she's someone I might admire - getting a little tired of anyone who isn't right wing being referred to as a communist.

River_Rat

Thank you, Sandy.  I thought there might be other opinions.  Makes me think I will continue to not pile on and perhaps try to do a little research.

suzieq60

RR - our media is very biased towards the left. She didn't get elected in the first place, she stabbed the previous prime minister in the back and then went on to win the next election on a promise there would be no carbon tax under a govt she leads - well we got one. She is an out and out liar.

Sandy - fair enough - she may not be a communist but her past suggests she once was.

What makes me sick is that one of the men she used to sleep with and whose marriage she broke up, is actually another member of parliament. Too weird.

QuinnCat

I don't agree the "woman breaks up the marriage" if she has an affair with a marrried men.  Him, yes, depending any pending agreements with his wife.

They're just deciding Washington's governor - Jay Inslee (the Democrat)?  RM "Like many contests this year, it was close, then the Democrat won."  

1Athena1

LOL!! Washington is always so late!

Chickadee

Just spent some time reading up on Ms Gillard. Sounds like the Australian political process works about as well as ours or perhaps a bit more like Canada's........and she did get elected, even ran unopposed.

RetiredLibby

I just watched Rachel Maddow and Richard Engle revealed some very interesting inside information about Petraeus and the CIA -- Petraeus was not a popular leader at the Agency. He brought in a lot of his own staffers, was perceived as an outsider and not as a team player in the Agency. Two people - one current staffer and one former staffer - told Engle that if the FBI had not started the investigation, the CIA would have had to ask the FBI to conduct an investigation. Apparently the affair started while he was on active duty with the military. The "trying to access his classified email" seems to be the problem -- and, of course, she is not "just" his biographer, she is a journalist. Revealing classified information to someone, through intention or carelessness, is a crime. The appeareance or possibility or speculation that he may have revealed classified information to her absolutely weakens his authority, both inside and outside the Agency. Failure of leadership and failure of judgment. Very, very sad for him and for his wife, but not out of the ordinary for someone in such a position with such a problem.



L

1Athena1

HL: That would shed a completely different light. If he violated a law, the equation changes....What a shame.

RetiredLibby

Petraeus himself is not under investigation, according to all the sources. It is his girlfriend. But he also cannot have a relationship with someone who broke the law. They did say they do not expect criminal prosecution, but a caveat here -- they don't know where the investigation will lead. His authority has been undermined, as has his judgment... He really couldn't continue. And, for the record, I didn't care that Clinton got a blow job from an intern who showed him her thong panties -- the head of the CIA is different. He has access to classified information that even the President doesn't routinely see, and has knowledge of things the President does not. Really, it isn't about Puritanism here -- I really do think it was about classified info and authority. And it is a shame.



L

suzieq60

Chickadee - we have the Westminster system as in the UK. Yes she did get elected but prior to that she was made Prime Minister after a vote by her party removed the sitting PM. We do not vote for someone to be Prime Minister - it is whoever is the leader of the party that wins govt.

Still, she is a nasty piece of work IMHO - this legal issue that is in the news at the moment is getting worse for her. For one, she signed a power of attorney as a witness when when she wasn't even in the room or the same state as the man she was supposedly witneesing. It also appears union money paid for renovations to her home. She was actually fired by the law firm she worked for over the matter. It's all coming out, only a matter of time. 

IllinoisLady

I think it does go something like judge not, lest ye be judged.  I did not get too excited about what Clinton did either save for the fact of the high profile which always titters and tee hee's while the whole thing gets front and centered.  People get so up in arms -- so critical --- and look how few people even talk about it now.  I think I watched every speech Bill Clinton made for the Pres. and I never thought about it once -- just waited for another pearl to drop out of Billl's mouth, and so many did. 

And you are right about CIA personnel.  They have to be above reproach.

Jackie

suzieq60

if you are interested, here's a link that summarises her apparent involvement in her boyfriend at the time stealing union funds.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/what_gillard_knew_about_the_slush_JbGcILLo9O59yt3QGFT68H

suzieq60

This is an opinion from a popular cartoonist here:

On the other side, the pugnacious Gillard: She is accused of calling all married women prostitutes, promoting lesbianism and late-term abortions. Declaring heterosexual relationships an “anomaly”. Convincing her parents to join the Communist Party. Defrauding millions from union members. Inventing false polls to convince Caucus to support the knifing of a sitting Prime Minister. Spending billions we don’t have gaining international and domestic favours. Intimidating media companies. Insisting journalists be sacked. Constantly lying to the Australian people. Demeaning Abbott’s family. Cooking Budget books. Supporting corrupt union bosses. Inflaming a gender war that formerly didn’t exist. Promoting incompetent unionists to Cabinet. Promoting a partner in crime to the Bench of the Federal Court. Signing deals with the unrepresentative, communist Greens so she could attain government. Having an open sexual preference for married men. Having been sacked from a corrupt law firm and no longer being able to practise as a solicitor and doggedly refusing to answer questions in Parliament about her documented, corrupt past.

And in the short time she has been Prime Minister, responsible for policy disasters the like of which we have never seen!
 

Chickadee

Sounds like lots of mudslinging in your political season. Nothing is clear and each side will believe what they will. Don't envy the voters. We have to sort through all sorts of mud here as well.

208sandy

Does the popular cartoonist work for Rupert Murdoch?

ananda8

HappyLibby,

I totally agree with you.  He was an official handling the most important secrets and information analysis in the Nation and he has an affair with a reporter.  When the affair came out he would have lost his security clearance and there would have been and may still be a full investigation. 

This is not the same as a Congressman having a honey on the side.

When my husband got his security clearance, I needed one as well and the investigation was thorough.  My husband's security clearance was delayed for 8 years because he had a great aunt whom he never met living in what was then East Germany.  CIA and National security clearances are no joke.  This is not about sex, this is about protecting the nation and the integrity of the information the President relies on.

Alyson

Hi all, just catching up.

A point you should note that in Australia and New Zealand (and Canada and the UK) the PM is not elected they are they leader of the party that has the most votes in the House of Representative (Commons). So we don't actually vote for them as such. They are MPs, elected by their electorate..Generall you know that if you vote for a cetrtain party then you are going to get that leader as the PM if they win the election. Our Head of State is actually the Queen who is represented by a Governor/ Governor General.

Here in NZ we only have one House, no upper house at present though it is talked about quite a bit, we used to have one back in the 19th century. Politics is such fun isn't it.

This is going around here, you have probably seen it

DD thought it was really funny as they are emigrating to Canada next year. DSiL is Canadian. (And guess what DH has been telling folks that we are going Canada for our trip next year). Probably about September and we will go down to PA to see my aunt - yeh.

lassie11

Alyson - I hope you do come to Canada.  Do you know which part of the country yet?

Alyson

DD is moving to Oakville, part of Toronto so we will be going there. So we will probably fly into Vancouver where good friends live then over to Chicago(I know its US)so we can see folks in Indianna then Toronto. I want to visit Halifax and Prince Edward Island as I have ancestors that come from Nova Scotia. We would then go down to Pennsylvania to see my aunt. Haven't been to New York so will have to see something of that as well. Like so many places there is just so many things I want to see and I am an historian by trade. DH has said to start planning so I will look at flights etc once I let people know what our plans are. It is something to look forward to.

Wabbit

suzieq ... interesting to read about politics in another country.  Different systems but all have the same warts it seems.

I did a little bit of reading and it looks like Gillard may well have pushed somebody else (Rudd?) aside to advance herself.  It also seems clear that she campaigned saying she would not support a Carbon Tax.  Then to gain the leadership position she needed an alliance with the Greens (Environmental party) and broke that promise.  I can certainly understand why she would lose the support of anybody who opposed the Carbon Tax for that one.  

Abbott appears to be a moderate compared to our right wing.  It looks like he made a run at stopping your Medicare from paying for the morning after pill and abortions but got slapped down quickly and removed from any authority on that issue?

The 'popular cartoonist' however sounds like a Rush Limbaugh clone.  Some of those accusations make me cringe.  They have the same tone as the communist, Muslim, atheist, socialist, etc. crap that is flung at Obama.

Our right wing would consider you all socialists or worse because you have national healthcare, are pro-choice and (gasp) elected an atheist to public office

I don't know enough about it ... or all the other accusations ... to have an informed opinion of course.  It's all interesting though.  Are you having elections soon? 

Alyson ... LOL ... love the picture! 

  

Alyson

And White Rabbit, New Zealand is probably worse, we have much more state control than Australia, we must be communist even though in our eyes we have a conservative government. We have total national healthcare, pro choice, anti-nuclear, our PM is agnostic, quite green. I could go on.

suzieq60

Sandy - all of what the cartoonist said is true actually. He did work for Murdoch but 30 odd years ago.

Chickadee

It strikes me that some of Australia is having as much trouble accepting a female PM as some of the US is accepting a black President. It does smack of Murdoch mud. Take some smoke and fan the flames.

alexandria58

Alyson: I knew that I liked New Zealand after I watched Lord of the Rings.  What a beautiful place.  Now to learn it's progressive too.....

kayfh

Note to Suze. I hope you didn't feel blind sided by my introduction of some of the failings of your "catholic" leader of the opposition. It's just that I do not see what difference his private religion would make. Unless it was to impose some of the restrictions that religion has on the rest of the populace. I was hoping, and delighted to see an interesting discussion of what goes on in first world countries which think the citizens have access to unbiased information through our news sources. Who can we trust?

AnneW

I spent three weeks in NZ South Island a few years ago and just wanted to saty there forever...

Trying to catch up on all the pages I missed yesterday. The righties don't realize how manipulated they were by their entertainment media. (That's a term I heard on progressive radio yesterday.) It's why they thought they had a landslide in the bag. It's why Romney was so shellshocked when he lost. The nuts preferred to believe what validated their opinions, no matter what or who. So people who choose to believe entertainers for their "facts" got what they deserve. All you have to do is take a peak across the fence, read it as an archive if you can sotmach it, and they spew exactly what the entertainment media spoon fed them. It's sad, really. But they got what they deserved, and they'll get more till they wake up and demand better.

bluedahlia

Yup Romney was really shellshocked.  I read somewhere he had fireworks ready for HIS election.  LOL!  I kinda feel bad for him, but that's my lefty pulling heartstring thing going on!  I GOTTA STOP hugging those trees! 

ETA - I was watching Bill Maher last night and he said more mormons voted for Bush than Romney.  Don't know if that's true but that's pretty sad.

ETA again - Guess it's true!

IllinoisLady

Blue...I also read about the fireworks that stayed in the box.  I too experience the ambivalent feelings and party because no one saw it coming.   Then read Anne's entry again......and think yep --  its a clear choice made as to how you are going to handle something....head in sand or head out.  I don't know if I can become de-mystified about anyone who would give UP their RIGHT to know the TRUTH.  I'm not sure I'll ever get my head around that one because it is such a HUGE counter-balance.  Goes against all logic, all reason.  

If things don't change....the Repug party is out of here.  I was thinking their was some time but I'm starting to lean toward the oppostive veiw point.  There seems a lack of salvage there with the amount of out of touchness they displayed this time around.

Jackie

Wabbit

If losing the election did take them totally by surprise ... in spite of all the widely known information that it was at best a very tight race ... then in my opinion they are not smart enough to lead this country.   

This is the same kind of 'wishful thinking, facts be d*mned' mode of operation that caused our financial institutions to crash and burn and caused the recession we are still trying to dig out of.