I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

lewing

2tzus, please chill. 

Or better still, go find where "democracy" is mentioned in the Bible and report back to us. 

"There is no word for democracy in Islam" . . . um, Islam is a religion, not a language. 

L

Anonymous

Radical Islam includes Sharia Law which DICTATES how citizens will live their lives and many times their deaths.   I don't know how you cannot call that a form of government

Chill -----Lew

Anonymous

I edited my post.  I was not addressing it to 2tzus, but to the wabbit. 

I think 2tzus sounds extremely well educated

Wabbit

Thanks for the welcomes and the link.  How did you know what my favorite song is.  Blasted out as loudly as possible of course.  Drowns out any and all background noise that way

Edited to ask Erica31 - are you always rude or is it just that you don't like what I said?  I did acknowledge that Turkey has had their problems.  Did you not read that part? 

BarbaraA

Congrats, Blue! A shower by oneself is the best!! You MUST keep your avatar.

Thanks Sandy, that's good to know. He really wanted the thing out but he still has swelling from the surgery around his trachea so they will try tomorrow. Athena, he had pneumonia and somehow on top of that (and his out of control diabetes) he got a huge infection pocket about 7 inches around his trachea, larnyx and thyroid. He is been in ICU since Sun. Good news is the infection is not the flesh-eating they had feared. And I like your censored avatar, too!

Interesting article on Politico.

 http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49273.html

lewing

Yep, Islam has a body of law called Shariah.  And Catholics have something called canon law.  And Jews have Halakha. 

Not sure what that says about the alleged propensity of various religions for or against democracy, though.

L

rosemary-b

I know you must have enjoyed your shower Blue. it feels good to get back the piece of independence we have lost.

All Islam is not Radical Isalm Erica

crazy4carrots

Perhaps now is a good time to remind everyone that there is a Muslim Women and Breast Cancer thread on this Board.  Let's hope they don't wander onto this thread today.....

Barbara -- so happy to hear your brother is on the mend  You've had a h*llish week.

rosemary-b

White Rabbit

We love you some of us are just very very bad at spelling names.

Anonymous

blue - This is for you:

Keep in mind though...you might think they're "cute" - until they spit in your face! Bwaaaaah! They're very good spitters. As far as 50 feet!

rosemary-b

Ahhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Camel spit at dinner time. Just great Laura.

Anonymous

Bon Appetit'!

ananda8

Any country that has an official religion corrupts both the politics and the religion of that country.    There are even Christians in this country who wish to make Christianity the official religion although they are never explicit about which form of Christianity should be the official one. 

Medigal

Ugh!!  We should boil the camel and ship it to Laura for supper, spit and all!!  I was just sampling my cooking and come back to this.  And I get blasted for pickled pigs feet??

BarbaraA

Gaaaakkk, Laura!! I am just getting ready to head out for the early bird at Carrabba's. May need a couple of drinks first to clean that out of my brain.

Anonymous

Medi - Don't waste your time and money on shipping...I don't eat camel - heck I wouldn't even ride one.  Enjoy your dinner! Yummy!

Wabbit

There is humor - and there is just gross

Very true notself.  All countries including this one need to be on guard about letting religion rule government.  It corrupts the religion and the government both when that happens.

River_Rat

Hey Erica or Daisy or whoever I'm honored that you think I'm Layne.....but not even close.  Also the Iran bit wasn't my opinion.  I just wanted people to know there is more at Laura's link.  They made an attempt at addressing both sides.

Lewing, thanks for mentioning the recent attempt in Dearborn, and there have been others.  When I have more time and am allotted more posts maybe I'll post some of them.

Also, don't count me as an America hater.  I love my country, which is why I work and try so hard to keep the best of America and to improve what I can - albeit liberal, poser, slacker that I am. 

Edited to change wording that might have been taken wrong. 

Anonymous

Lew...Why don't you research Sharia Law and especially women's rights under sharia law? You look like the "feminist" type

AND  I am not wude wacist wabbit !!

Anonymous

Well, another country is chiming in.  

Multiculturalism has failed, says French president  

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110210/wl_afp/francepoliticsimmigrationsociety_20110210231042  

PARIS (AFP) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared Thursday that multiculturalism had failed, joining a growing number of world leaders or ex-leaders who have condemned it.

"My answer is clearly yes, it is a failure," he said in a television interview when asked about the policy which advocates that host societies welcome and foster distinct cultural and religious immigrant groups.

"Of course we must all respect differences, but we do not want... a society where communities coexist side by side.

"If you come to France, you accept to melt into a single community, which is the national community, and if you do not want to accept that, you cannot be welcome in France," the right-wing president said.

"The French national community cannot accept a change in its lifestyle, equality between men and women... freedom for little girls to go to school," he said.

"We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him," Sarkozy said in the TFI channel show.

British Prime Minister David Cameron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Australia's ex-prime minister John Howard and Spanish ex-premier Jose Maria Aznar have also recently said multicultural policies have not successfully integrated immigrants.

Merkel in October said efforts towards multiculturalism in Germany had "failed, totally."

The comment followed weeks of anguished debate sparked by the huge popularity of a book by a central banker saying that immigrants, in particular Muslims, were making Germany "more stupid."

Britain's Cameron last week pronounced his country's long-standing policy of multiculturalism a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism.

He urged a "more active, muscular liberalism" where equal rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech and democracy are actively promoted to create a stronger national identity.

The prime minister, who took power in May 2010, argued that "under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream".

He said this had resulted in a lack of national identity in Britain which had made some young Muslims turn to extremist ideology.

Sarkozy said in his television interview Thursday that "our Muslim compatriots must be able to practise their religion, as any citizen can," but he noted "we in France do not want people to pray in an ostentatious way in the street."

French far-right leader Marine Le Pen late last year came under fire for comparing Muslims praying in the streets outside overcrowded mosques in France to the Nazi occupation.

Marine Le Pen said there were "ten to fifteen" places in France where Muslims worshipped in the streets outside mosques when these were full.

lewing

2tzus, I respectfully request that you stop insulting Islam and Muslims with blanket generalizations about a faith about which you obviously know nothing.  As lindasa has pointed out, there are a number of Muslim women on this board who should not have to read hateful statements about their religion. 

(You also appear pretty ignorant of Judaism, if you believe Halakhic law is ONLY religious and does not govern other aspects of life.  I defer to you on Canon law.)

Thanks.

3monstmama

Had camel in china.  Made a fine dumpling.  Can't remember the veggie part of the combo but will say that camel--like donkey--sure does make a tasty dumpling. 

So we are back to the theory that one can't like your ountry and still criticize its behavior and acknowledge its faults.  And we think we are different from all those nations that have been the subject of so much bashing?  hmmmmmm. Those who contend some of us are "American Haters" sixty years ago would we have been American Haters if we stood up against segregation and thought that African Americans had the same rights as anyone else?  After all, it was the law . . .

Is state discrimination worse than discrimation by individuals?  I'm not always sure.  If individuals feel it is okay to bash a religon and individuals discriminate by posting rude or derogatory pictures or lighting buildings on fire or protesting at funerals even if the government says "we don't discriminate," but allows discrimination by the individuals to continue, is that really okay?

Discrimation based on religion is not something that the Middle East or even Islam has cornered the market on. For hundreds of years, Jews were not allowed to be citizens in most European countries either.  Even in the last hundred years, their citizenship was tenative---thus the creation of Israel.   Find a time machine, go back to England and find out what it was like to be a protestant under Mary or what it was like to be a catholic under her sister Elizabeth.  No much tolarance there.

Islam as a religion is no worse nor better than any other religion.  What messes with Islam is the same thing that messes with Christianity--radicals who feel its their way or the highway and that they have the one true path.  Sort of like that theory that Good Americans never criticize their government theory of life. . .  .

As for dinner, its friday night.  We should be having shepards pie but earlier in the week, I did a long slow cook of some short ribs and depending on his day, DH may defer the pie to tomorrow night and eat the short ribs tonight instead.

Glad to hear Barbara's brother is better ---here's to continued improvement over the weekend. 

Congrats on the shower Blue.

otter

Rutabagas, or Brussel sprouts?

3monstmama

rutabagas go in shepards pie along with the parsnips and turnips and carrots.

I feel confident in saying that I hope that any Muslim woman who find this thread understand that the majority of women here do not feel as negative as some of the extremely verbal and ignorant types who have posted such mean spirited comments about Islam today.  Most people here get that the substance of a religion is more than one small groups interpretation.  Most would not agree that the acts/beliefs of a few should be attributed to hundreds of millions of people.

Heres to a future where more people have more knowledge and more acceptance of those who follow a different path.  Insha'Allah.

revkat

Perhaps they have you on "ignore" 2tzus. If they do, they can't hear you, and the rest of us don't need you to keep yelling at either of the Lindas who are generally polite and respectful in how they state their opinions.

What you do, is make sweeping sterotypical generalizations about a whole group of people. And then when asked politely not to do so, you change the subject and claim the other person has done just what you have been asked not to do. It's a fairly common tactic on discussion boards.  

You have made it clear you believe there is only one type of Islam and it is the most extreme version. That is simply not true. Just as there are many types of Christianity, there are many types of Islam and Judaism, and I'd venture just about any major religion.

By the way, (this is an aside to the Christians on this thread) there is no way to get democracy orcapitalism out of the New Testament teaching. Jesus was speaking to a persecuted minority under occupation by an oppressive empire, and all his teaching that relate to the state need to be interpreted in that framework. In addition, Jesus clearly was not about setting up a nation-state of any kind, but about proclaiming what God's reign looks like. And God's people are to owe no allegiance to a country, but only to God. God doesn't see borders, in God's reign no one is "illegal", and God askes us to share to the point where we have no more than our neighbors.

Now you may disagree with my interpretation of scripture, but both of us still may call ourselves Christians. Which of us should Muslims choose as representative of the whole religion?

Bren-2007

Wow ... the delete police are at it again.  There was nothing against the rules in Linda's post.

Let's get those delete gals some t-shirts only they need to say deleteR. 

A word of warning to the chronic deleters .. you can get yourselves banned for playing that game.  Melissa knows exactly who you are and how you're abusing that function.

Grow up ... don't read here if you can't take the heat, and if you insist on getting your panties all tied up .. why not use the ignore function?

Bren

3monstmama

My youngest monster used to have his own version of delete---when he didn't like something I was saying, he would stick his fingers in his ears and tell me he couldn't hear me.  . . . of course he was only 8 at the time. . .

I agree with Bren--don't like what is said, can't be polite and have a discussion, find you are getting too stressed, hit the ignore button.  I have!

River_Rat

3monstmama, I love turnips and parsnips and agree with pretty much everything I've heard from you here.

YramAL

I have several posters in this thread on "ignore". The funny thing is, I can pretty much guess what they are saying in their posts anyways, since they say the same things over and over. "Illegals....muslims....welfare cheats....." so on and so forth. 

Mary 

bluedahlia

Revkat, I love your interpretation as it is exactly what I have been saying for a long time.  That's why I sometimes think that some of the people posting in the "athiest" thread are more Christian in their actions than the professed ones are.

Laura, they are still cute!

Yes, I love the independence I'm regaining slowly but surely.

NOW ONE MORE TIME.....

Hey deleters, leave those posts alone.............