I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

River_Rat

I have to laugh about somebody wondering (it was back a bit not sure who it was now) if Willard's religion worried anyone here.  I have heard of the White Horse Prophesy but don't know if it's true. Anyway I don't find Romney's religion anymore worrisome than any others. But I have cousins in the South that I just bet it's driving nuts. They're Republican I'm a liberal Democrat. Usually we might spar a bit, just a little - really you're voting for that guy?! - kind of thing, just a friendly thing, no political emails flying back and forth. Well this year nada. They are also very religious and I know that they grew up being told that the Mormons are a cult. I bet their heads are spinning this year. I don't know if they'll be able to vote the Presidential line. I'm not gonna ask either, just gonna let them stew in their own juices and make the choice.

River_Rat

Enjoyful, I kind of feel the same as you on Ann Romney's comment on service - didn't really take it in the way others are.

But Mitt himself is another issue. I can understand anybody avoiding war if they can, others may find that cowardly but I find it self-preservation. But what I can't condone is somebody actually demonstrating in support of the war and yet avoiding it. I really think that if you demonstrate in support you should put your own butt on the line.

gardengumby

That was what I heard as well. 

A number of young men that I knew in the Vietnam era had deferments.  Some were for conscientious (sp?) objection, some were college, some marriage.  Of course, none of the young men I knew at the time had any political aspirations, but everyone does need to remember that it was a different time.  I (personally) don't like the idea that our Commander-in-Chief dodged the draft (and I'm one of these crazy people that would like to see the draft re-instituted) - but most of us who are posting here, are probably of an age to also remember the Vietnam War era.  People were treated VERY badly for going to the war - even when drafted.  It's not surprising to me that Romney would have used whatever was available to him to avoid going.  Even though I don't want him to be elected, I really cannot overly fault him for avoiding the draft if possible. 

That said, I can (and do) fault him for talking in a hawk-like manner about starting wars and sending others to their deaths when he used any means available to him to avoid going himself.

1Athena1

E - At the very least, it was evasive. It also suggests that others who do serve in the military don't "serve" in other ways. I think it's disgraceful for people not to answer directly a question about being called to duty. The Romneys are not the only ones who have done this, but Ann's rather arrogant way of avoiding the real question strikes me as the same arrogance with which they feel it apparently unnecessary to release all of their taxes....

If they want to lead they have to set an example that they are willing to undergo the same discomfort we all do.

....off to make a deadline....

QuinnCat

Enjoyful -  "serve in different ways" is equating in my book.  My brother-in-law was a CO in 1967.   He did not believe in killing and was given that status.  He couldn't just go off to France and recruit more Buddhists...he still had to serve in the military, though in something that was non-violent.  I think, sometimes, this was even working in a medical unit, in Vietnam.

GG - The draft went away in 1970.  There was no draft, or when, when Obama came of age...maybe you were talking about Clinton, or a hypothetical, when you mentioned the CIC?

Anonymous

Thanks, Cheryl

another reason to give up thinking, not that Blue's idjuts needed one, but just in case, think I'll go on mission to Canada so I can eat conollis ( sp?) at Blue's house...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Horse_Prophecy

IllinoisLady

I may be as wet as a person can be but I thought I read somewhere that Pres. Obama was too young for the draft.  Just off the top of my head....doesn't seem like that would be the case.  I'll have to go start looking again.    I think I am the one who raised the question about being concerned about the religious issues and Romney.  I, in fact, did not think all that much until I read Lassie's link which seemed to me to indicate that since the Church's founding in general it has been the ideal to get a Mormon President.  Somehow...I didn't realize how "old" the idea  was and that put a different feeling to it for me.

Jackie

QuinnCat

The draft went away in 1970....Obama was around 10 years old then.

QuinnCat

They have missions everywhere, including my small little mountain town.  Believe me, walking door to door, in clean clothes, in a scenic recreational town in USA is hardly equatable to being in Vietnam in 1967.  This is not about serving the USA, anyway.  This is about serving SLC.

Anonymous

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/13/former-mormon-explains-why-mitt-romney-should-never-be-president/

Blue - just in case Cheryl didn't scare you enuf

A few pages back there is a FABULOUS pic of Stephen Colbert 'splainin' why BHO wasn't in Nam.  He had a "dr.s excuse cuz he was only 8 years old."

River_Rat

Actually the draft didn't go away until 1973 (although the last draftee was in December of 1972). What did happen is that the draft went to a lottery system circa 1970 until the end of the draft.  Obama would have still been too young. My DH turned eighteen at just the right time.

bluedahlia

Good Grief!

bluedahlia

I think the ladies on the duped thread think 10 year olds should have been drafted! 

QuinnCat

Ofcourse, the lottery came. You are correct, but I never viewed the lottery as the same.  The lottery really changed how it felt to me and my friends. Both of my older brothers had problems witht he draft before the lottery - one went in (for a short while), the other had a medical deferrment.  I was at Berkeley in 1971 and draft lottery numbers really did take the chill out of it.  Ironically, it made those with low numbers scramble to find a way out, while others were relieved.  I had a friend who got the #1...his dad was a psychiatrist...do I need to say more?   In 1966, 1967, the offensives in Vietnam were requiring more to be drafted, it seemed....it was much more intense.  The last protest at Berkeley, against the war took place in fall of 1971.  Berkeley was one of the epicenters of the anti-war protests....by '71, fraternities and sorrorities were maiking a comeback. 

The problem with Romney is that he was protesting against those protesting against the Vietnam war.  He had no moral problem with the war, but still evaded the draft.

Enjoyful

Actually, he wasn't 10. He was declared "medically 8."

gardengumby

Thank-you, Kam!!!  This is a picture of Mt. Rainier taken from our deck.

River_Rat

Kam, I agree the lottery did change it. For us personally it meant I no longer was thinking of getting pregnant before I was ready. But for those with low numbers it was still bad.

River_Rat

GG, wow!

gardengumby

Kam - I was talking about Romney possibly being CIC.

bluedahlia

Enjoyful, that doctor should be put in jail.  How dare he!

Enjoyful

He was obviously a) Kenyan; b) Muslim; and c) part of the vast liberal conspiracy to put a Kenyan Muslim commie Pinko in the white house.

Enjoyful

Beautiful, GG! I want to go to there.

pupmom

ROFL, new Obama meme: Romnesia, a condition whereby one forgets what one said previously. But never fear Obamacare covers preexisting conditions!

YramAL

I've tried to stay away from the Romney being a Mormon thing. I really don't care, frankly, and I feel like it somehow puts me on the level of the Kenyan/Muslim/Socialist conspiracy. I feel like Democrats are better than that. There are sooooo many other reasons I don't like Romney that I think are more relevant to the governing of our country.

Having said that, I do feel than many fundamentalist Christians are ignoring a big part of their beliefs-that Mormons are cultists-just to get someone elected who "isn't Obama". 

Mary

bluedahlia

Yep they still believe an 8 year old should have served in Vietnam.  Reading comprehension problems I think.  We know that serving is voluntary now and no one is bashing any religion.  Just stating the facts!

bluedahlia

Enjoyful, where's Archie when we need him.   HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Enjoyful

I didn't read the Other thread, but perhaps they think that Obama should have enrolled in the military when he came of age? A false equivalency, really.



Romney was of age during a war and protested IN FAVOR of that war, then used every deferment or exception possible to avoid service in that war. Obama's situation was completely different - no war, no draft, no pro-war stance.

Enjoyful

Blue - I sat in my big ol easy chair while I typed that. Wish I'd had a cigar too!

bluedahlia

I could send you one.

bluedahlia

I prefer pipes though!