Scattered radiation

CMT

I had 6 weeks of radiation on my right breast (after chemo and lumpectomy) and noticed my second week in that my other breast started hurting. I asked my radiologist if the treatment would cause my other breast to ache and he said no. During my fourth week of treatment, I experienced burning and redness under my left breast. Technicians had me show the doctor and he said it was due to radiation scattering. A week later, I also noticed some scabbing  beneath my left arm pit. I completed radiation in July and am still experiencing a stabbing/searing pain on my left side. The pain comes and goes and moves around...sometimes my left breast itches like it is healing from something. It does get better the farther I get away from radiaton. I'm also taking Gabapentin at night which has helped. Has anyone else had this experience? 

CMT

I see that no one has responded to my posting above and that's a good thing. I'm glad no one else has experienced radiation scattering during treatment. I had an MRI yesterday and the results came back fine. They are not sure what the pain is related to. I will continue on the Gabapentin which really does help.  

lrr4993

I did not experience this and, honestly, would be surprised if it is radiation scattering.  I am certianly no expert, but my impression from discussing the possibility of scattering with my rad onco is that it would only be in the immediate area of treatment.  Your story is very concerning to hear as all I was told when questioning the risks of radiation was how precise and controlled the process is so that damage to other areas is not likely.  Yikes!

cycle-path

When they tell you there is "no scattering" they are lying, pure and simple. If there was no scatter, why would the technicians stand behind a shield or leave the room?

Scatter happens. I think it's an outrage women are not given a lead apron to put on the areas of the body that are not supposed to receive radiation. We are not lab mice and we are not pieces of meat! We deserve better.

No scattering -- bah! 

soulswithin

OMG so do I experience outrage! This cracks me up all along how careful a dentist is with covering the whole body with lead for a dang tooth xray! I have shared a few funny comments to my RAD and Dentist techs. The Rad Tech said that this is a different type of radiation. Thats it.

Go figure! When my rads were going on, the left breast was radiated, and from the right side I do not know how it avoided my right breast. I think I got a few scatters also.

cycle-path

Yes, the radiation you get from a radiation oncologist is different from what you get with a dental X-ray. The dental X-ray is MUCH MUCH MUCH less dangerous!

I am so tired of these liars! 

Mouser

Hi CMT --

There should *not* be enough radiation 'scatter' to cause symptoms in your untreated breast. Ever. The beams should be very tightly focused and very carefully aimed. And even though scatter is not zero, it should be close enough to zero not to have short-term effects -- even less than diagnostic X-rays like the dental X-rays that others have referred to.

 CyclePath and SoulWithin:  There is a real difference between the dose that causes acute tissue damage such as CMT is describing and the dose that rad tehnicians go behind a screen to avoid. It's like the difference  between smoking a pack a day vs breathing 2nd hand smoke in a bar. The occasional visitor runs very little risk. The bartender gets enough smoke, night in and night out, for it to be dangerous -- and over the years, 40 hrs/ week in and week out, the rad tech runs a risk of cancer if (s)he didn't shield. But even the tech would not get acute tissue damage, which is what CMT is describing.

20 yrs ago, rads were expected to cause heart and/or rib damage  -- but that was on the treated side. The newer machines are designed to be much better focused, tho some damage still occurs. But even if your clinic still uses very old machines, there really should not be damage in the armpit on the untreated side.  I think someone owes you a better explanation than 'scatter' - that much scatter amounts to a disaster.

It's possible what is going on is not directly related to rads. It could be a late effect of chemo? Or an allergy? (I became allergic to the goop the rad onc prescribed to soothe the treated breast. Before i realized what was wrong, i had a nasty rash all over my chest, including the untreated breast.) 

edited for typos

cycle-path

Mouser, your second hand smoke analogy is a good one. Yes, the amount of scatter radiation one gets is minimal. But the problem is that some of us, for a variety of reasons, are very frequently subjected to small amounts of radiation. Not as much as a rad tech would get if s/he had no protection, but probably too much.

There is absolutely no reason that the technician can't throw a lead apron over the rest of our bodies when we're receiving radiation. None. Period. NO REASON.

We should be protected from receiving more radiation than we need to be getting, even if the amounts are tiny. These tiny amounts accumulate over a lifetime. 

Sistershelpingsisters

Have any of you requested a lead apron?  Were you refused? Did you insist?   A dear friend of mine is having radiation right now and she keeps being told that she doesn't need an apron, and is made to feel stupid for asking.

char123

When I finished radiation, I developed a little bumpy rash on the other breast at one spot only.  My dermotologist and my Onc. both say, do not say I told you but thats radiation spray causing those bumps....I got the impression from them it happens alot!

cycle-path

Sistershelpingsisters: I talked to one radiation oncologist about it and she did ridicule me for asking which was one of the reasons I didn't choose her for my treatment. I ended up having IORT and didn't ask for lead shielding for that, though I probably should have done so.

I think the proper response is "If you're going to ridicule me I will find another doctor." And I probably should have said exactly that to the doctor I talked to.

Let's look at it another way. Let's say I believed that cherry lollypops would make my recovery go better. Most doctors would simply say, "Well, I don't think it will help but if you want to try it there's no harm." Most doctors wouldn't ridicule someone with this belief. So why do they ridicule someone who asks for a lead shield? I think they should simply say they believe it's unnecessary but that the patient can have it if she desires.  

texaslonghorn31

I know I am chiming in late on this thread, but up until last week I never even though about scatter... but here is my issue... nerve damage in right armpit and side of right breast... pain spread to shoulder and back of shoulder. Oncologist told me "it just CAN'T be from the radiation" and says maybe I have a torn rotator cuff or something. Whatever. Closed MRI and sent to neurologist... who tells me that most certainly is my current issues most likely CAUSED by the radiation but that there is also something known as "spillage" (which I am guessing is like scattering?). I asked him what that meant and he said that even though they direct the RADS to the one targeted area, that sometimes it spills over into other areas. Mine it seems has affected nerves. Going in for an EMG in a week to see which nerves were messed up. So I do think spillage or scattering or whatever is real. Just wish the radiation oncologist would own up to the possibility of it instead of always making me feel like I am being a complainer! And I am 7 months out from RADS by the way and this stuff is still going on!

cycle-path

Longhorn -- bummer! Sorry for your problems. Thanks for posting and telling your story -- it may give others the courage to stand up to their doctors. They are not gods and they don't know everything, in spite of their occasional assertion to the contrary.

duckyb1

Great................more good news...................is it ever over............I'm asking on Monday, but I'm sure I'll get some stupid answer

Blinx

I asked my RO about this - why do I get a lead apron at my dentist but not here? He told me that the radiation was focused, not like at the dentist. However, the nurse advised me to use aloe from my waist to my collar bone, since I was receiving whole breast radiation (and I did start to see the reddening in those areas). Not sure how focused it could be if it covered such a large area!

CTMOM1234

I asked for a lead apron and was also dismissed by both rad. techs. Looking back now, I am suprised that I just caved in and never brought it up again -- I was just so overwhelmed that I did what they told me.