Issel clinic

ana62090

Hi everybody,

I am wondering if anybody has any info about Treatments at Issel clinic.  It is very expenssive, of course we can always use credit card, but than you have to pay it.

i had 8 dif I/V chemos and my st IV cancer is stil progressing.  I need something urgently to boost my immune system

Please, I need your advise if anybody has any info, please.

thenewme

Hi Ana,

I'm so sorry to hear of your progression!  Have you asked over in the Stage IV forum for suggestions?

In case you're interested in the American Cancer Society's opinion on Issels Treatment, here's a link for you:   ACS on ISSELS

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide! 

Hindsfeet

ana, Forgive me here if I'm wrong, but my opinion differs than most here...but what I understand is for those who are stage IV ... chemo does not cure your cancer. Chemo suppresses your immune system (often the cause of ´Cancer patients undergoing radio or chemotherapy did not finally succumb to the cancer itself, but to an infestation of candida albicans´. That was taken from Contemporary Oncology Magazine 1993 in the USA.)

If I were in your shoes, I would take a strong anti fungal prescription. Kill the fungus that's behind cancer! Also, a friend of mine mention ASAP...it's a colo-silver that kills most everything bad in you...natural antibiotic that doesn't hurt you.

I hope and pray for your healing.

ana62090

Thank you girls, I have cancer st IV for 3 years, was on many meds trying to control my cancer but no success, cancer is slowly, sometimes fast progressing, was in bones, now in lungs as well, I was on many alternative treatment- many but I think my disease is progressed so much that I think I need something what is really working.  In Issel clinic treatment COST ABOUT $7000 per week, need at least 5 weeks treatment.

I don't know what to do?!

impositive

ana, I'm with Barry...there's a lot of information regarding the subject over on the fungal thread.  If it were me, I would find a doc (we usually have more luck with holistic docs) who would prescribe a strong anti-fungal. Some will squawk that it is hard on the liver but the same ones have no problem administering the chemo which we know is very hard on us. Take it for 3-6 weeks, while sticking to a low carb diet and using probiotics...then take a look to see if scans, symptoms, etc., have improved. If so, you will have found the cause and therefore can treat it successfully! You may not yet be cured (that will take some time) but if you see things start to improve, you'll know you are on the right path. (And without throwing away your life savings.)  It's soooo worth a shot!

impositive

Ana,

Take a look...Fungus 101-Learn what could be making you sick in less than 3 minutes.

http://knowthecause.com/Fungus101/tabid/58/Default.aspx

Anonymous

Ana, are you talking about the Issels Clinic in the Santa Barbara or the one in Mexico? They can do more out of the country. There is a clinic in Germany (not Issels) that gets good reports but they're very expensive.

thenewme

Hi Ana,

It breaks my heart that your disease is progressing. Are there any clinical trials you're eligible for?  What is your treatment team recommending?  Do you have  someone supportive to help with all the overwhelming information and decisions?  I sense your frustration and I'm so glad you're reaching out here.  I don't think many stage IV gals post much here on the alternative forum, but a lot of them might have some good suggestions for someone in your critical situation. 

I may be the lone dissenter here, and please feel free to ignore my message, but I post this because I truly care and wish nothing but relief and excellent real results for you.  In my opinion cancer is NOT a fungus.  Low-carb diets and probiotics are not cancer treatments.  Colloidal silver and other antibiotics are not going to cure or treat your cancer (unless it's exacerbated by some pathologic infection). There is no evidence based factual data that Issels treatment is beneficial, but lots of red flags. 

Maybe these questions can help with your decision:

What, exactly and specifically, is the treatment you'd receive and what scientific research is available to support its use?

What are some of the counterpoints to the claims advertised?

Which Issel treatment methods are used in conventional medicine?

What do your doctors think about the proposed treatment?

Why won't insurance likely pay for Issels treatment?

Why do certain treatments want you to go to another country?

Why would people send private messages related to your posts, rather than discussing this in public?

Why do (all?) major legitimate cancer organizations recommend against Issels treatment?

Does it sound too good to be true?

I hope you'll take this message in the spirit it's intended.  I wish you only the best and support whatever decision you make.  I just want you to have whatever information you want/need to help with your decision.  Lots of us have resource links and research references collected, so please let us know if you'd like any more specific information. 

My best to you!

LJ13-2

Ana, no one in the mainstream medical community gives any credence to the so-called "fungal theory."

I'm sorry about your disease progression.

Sadly, wherever there are sick and desperate people, there are charlatans willing to suck your money out of your bank accounts with false promises and false hopes. 

I cannot say I would be any braver facing a disease that has stopped responding to conventional treatment, but I would hope I'd still have my wits about me to resist the vicious scavengers who would abuse me for their own profit.

I too would pursue any relevant clinical trials if possible.

If possible, contact the study leaders of breast cancer vaccine trials. This is the only truly valid immunotherapy research being done to my knowledge.

impositive

ana came to the Alternative boards asking for support. The conventional treatments obviously have not worked for her. Thenewme, you are suggesting more of the same!  I have noticed your posts, here and elsewhere, are mostly rebuttals to alternative treatments. Do you believein the efficacy of alternative treatments??  I cant find any of your posts that advocate them.

We all truly care here and want the best for any of us dealing with these issues. I come to the alternative boards because I believe that true cancer treatments and, dare I say, cures are found within nature and our body's god given abilities to heal... as I think most of us here do.   

You wrote: "Colloidal silver and other antibiotics are not going to cure or treat your cancer (unless it's exacerbated by some pathologic infection). "

What is fungus if not a pathologic infection?

Cancer is a disease of the body not just the breast, lung, liver, etc. Conventional medicine treats the cancer at the expense of the patient. Alternative medicine treats the patient, the entire body, at the expense of the cancer. If we dont treat the reason we have cancer in the first place, it is likely to return.  It appears the Issel Clinic's choice of treatment is based on metabolic therapy as are most other alternative cancer therapies. The counterpoints to the claims are made predominately by conventional medicine (See your link ASC and Issel's). They list "nutritional deficiencies" as being a complication due to restricted diets....This is laughable to me.  How does a diet loaded with nutrient rich vegetables and fruits compare to those of most chemo patient's?  They say laetrile/B17 could cause the following symptoms: nausea, vomiting, headache, dizziness, and even cyanide poisoning.  And what of chemotherapy? 

As far as clinical trials, if I were stage 4, I would incorporate my own antifungal trial (diet, probiotics and strong antifungal medications) and see what results.  The science is there and it wouldn't cost me my life savings.

I could go on and answer the other questions you posed but I think all of us here know the answers so I wont elaborate. 

ana, I dont know that much about Issel's but I firmly believe the key to healing can be found naturally.  The answers are out there. Please dont stop looking.

I hope you find your way.  Sending hugs and prayers....

flash

impositive- it's also for complementary which would be someone following conventional and adding additiional alternative. 

impositive

flash, I agree, I went with a conventional lumpectomy to remove the tumor and alternative to build my immune system so it can zap any strays.  I wouldn't be opposed to using prescription antifungals to eradicate it as well if need be.

Kouragio

Hi Ana,

I'm Stage 4, with cancer in most of my body from skull down to femurs. I'm looking into the Rubio Centre, which inccoperates Vaccines, diet, holistic care...but it is also very expensive $6500 US per week for 5 weeks! I think try EVERYTHING that has some credible evidence behind it, this is what I'm doing...right or wrong, I'd feel defeated and hopeless if I wasn't...I will pray for you...xox

thenewme

Hi impositive,

We'll have to agree to disagree, and I sincerely wish you the best.  However, I don't see anything that requires this forum to be devoid of critical thinking and factual information.  Feel free to ignore my posts, but IMHO it's helpful to consider both "sides" when considering any treatment, conventional or other, and determine where on the spectrum you want to be.  I suspect there are far, far more of us somewhere in the middle and very few on either extreme of conventional-only or alternative-only. Ana came here as a stage IV patient asking for helpful suggestions and information on Issels.  I'm just appalled that she's being told to take antifungals and antibiotics and a healthy diet and wait around for her cancer to be cured!  Again, the science is NOT there, and there is no credible evidence to suggest it.  Cancer is not a fungus and it's not a bacterial infection. 

Ana, sorry for the threadjack. How are you doing?

Kouragio and Ana, best of luck to you both!

mathteacher

I guess the "science wasn't there" either for the other stage IVs doing the conventional approach.

This is very troubling. All my best to you, whatever you choose.

impositive

thenewme wrote: I don't see anything that requires this forum to be devoid of critical thinking and factual information.

We agree on that fact 100%.

I would never ignore your posts as I welcome differing opinions. It makes me think, it makes me question and research and ultimately helps to educate me on this journey, so I value others opinions and input. That's why I'm here.

I posted above because it appears ana HAD and IS considering both sides. She said she has had chemo and is now looking at Issels and is therefore attempting to determine where on the spectrum she is.  

I asked above and I'm still curious....Do you believe in the efficacy of alternative treatments??

IMHO, none of us doing alternative treatments are "waiting around to be cured." It is a tremendous undertaking to CHANGE our lifestyles. We are taking responsibility for our health instead of putting our lives in the hands of doctors and pharmaceutical companies.

You wrote: Again, the science is NOT there, and there is no credible evidence to suggest it.  Cancer is not a fungus and it's not a bacterial infection. 

You were posting your opinions over on the fungal thread for a while and I truly welcomed your opinions. Your last post on that thread asked for PROOF that fungus could cause cancer. I posted a study (I believe it was from the PubMed website, cant remember) that showed that aflatoxin which is a fungal metabolite cant get into a cell and break it's DNA and they even showed exactly which gene (P53). 

You've never posted on the fungal thread again.....

impositive

ana, how's it coming? Please post and let us know. 

ebarry

Ana...you are a brave soul! I'm also anxiously waiting to see how the treatment went. Take care..and (((HUGS)))

thenewme

Ana, hopefully you're still reading ....how are you?

Hi Impositive,

You asked, "I asked above and I'm still curious....Do you believe in the efficacy of alternative treatments?? "

Honestly, I'm not sure how to answer that, since "alternative treatments" is an impossibly vague concept that encompasses everything from Rife machines to meditation to eating a healthy diet. 

By "alternative treatments," do you mean anything and everything outside of surgery, chemo, and radiation?  I don't think you'd find a single breast cancer patient anywhere, even the most hard-core conservative-treatment proponents, who doesn't believe in at least some of those things.  So of course I do believe in some complementary therapies.  That's what I mean when I talk about the alternative-traditional treatment spectrum.  It's not black or white, either/or.  We all fall somewhere on the spectrum.

For me personally, I do my research and look at factual, scientific, documented evidence as to what *works* and what is credible to me.  That's a line we all have to make for ourselves.  I have no problem with people choosing different paths than mine, and I actually do come to this forum looking for information and suggestions on what more I can do for my own health, since I'm triple negative  and have already done everything traditional medicine has to offer me.  I do try to make healthy choices and do everything I can to improve my general health, including some "alternative/complementary treatments." 

My intent is to discuss both sides of the issue, and I don't see why some people feel so defensive and threatened by questions.  The same types of questions are discussed on the traditional forums for chemo and surgery and radiation all the time - statistics are discussed/debated, options are weighed, research is presented and defended or rejected.  I honestly don't see why it should be different here. Just because I ask questions and look for actual reproducible data doesn't mean anyone else has to do the same.  Doesn't mean I'm a bully or an "intellectual dwarf" or a troll or a hope-dasher.  It simply means I'm looking for facts to back up theories or statements.  

But I digress.  To get back to the topic at hand, Issels Clinic, I want people reading this thread now or later to know that some people choose Issels and believe in its efficacy (and that's ok by me).  However, at least so far in this thread, there has not been a single thing suggested to Ana in support of spending at least $35,000 to go to Issels Clinic. As far as I can tell from my own research, that's likely because there IS none.  And that's why I'm asking the questions I'm asking.  This isn't hypothetical - it's the life of a real stage IV patient we're talking about here.  She is asking for and deserves factual and helpful information, not unproven/disproven quack theories.   

IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT ISSELS TREATMENT IS USEFUL, BENEFICIAL, OR WORTH THE COST, ESPECIALLY FOR A STAGE IV BREAST CANCER PATIENT?  

Anyone? 

ana62090

Hi guys,

thank you everybody for your responds.  I have long history of my disease.  started in 2005 as st 1 and became st IV in 2007.  I had rad in my spine, dif chemos for the last 3 years but cancer is still progressing.  I am very-very familiar with alternative treatment, I have natur/doctor, i go for auricular acupuncture, has doctor TCM from Chicago who sent me herbs, I take melatonin, Coq, Poly MVA, Aveemar, I think the best treatment choice is the combination of traditional and alternative medicine.   I am (or I Was) VERY POSITIVE PERSON, Iam thankful for everything in my life, i know that there is always some good reason in anything that happened.  I am not doing well now, I mean emotionally.  I was very active person, medical doctor (family Medicine), full time, walking daily 3-5 miles, working hard, doing weekly chemo since 2007 and full time working and one day I developed foot drop and again back pain(i had compression fracture since 2007) and became disable person.  that happened on may 24, 2010.  Since that time I am not working anymore, barely walking and almost always depressed.

Now I am trying to see if I can get to Issel clinic for treatment, because I need not toxic treatment(because of my foot condition).

I need more research to see if it is really truth about treatment or it is another thing to get more money from customer.  Please help me with this decision, if anybody has any facts or may be you guys know someone who had been treated there, please let me know. 

ana62090

forgot to mention I got progression agaoin on Ct scan, looks like it is gone to my liver.  I was and I am crying and don't know what to do.

thenewme

Oh Ana,

I'm so sorry about your progression.  This just sucks.  I desperately want you to find succes in your treatment and relief from your agony.  Hugs to you!!

judy88

Hi everyone - and especially Ana!

I'm new to the post, but after reading the responses to Ana's dilemma, I just had to jump in. I've been trained as a traditional naturopathic physician and have been involved in the Alternative Medicine world for the last 33 years. I've seen thousands of people with cancer come through my clinics with all types and stages of cancer.

 Let me start out by saying this...I think its outrageous how much clinics, both in the U.S. and in other countries, are charging for their programs! It absolutely makes my blood boil that these clinics are preying on those desperate to save their own lives. I used to send a few of my patients to a world-famous Mexican clinic because they didn't believe my protocols were working.  A few months later I learned that they were charging enormous amounts of money and given treatments, but they still died!

As a side note, I do not have my clinics anymore so I'm not here to get people to come to see me. My purpose is to educate, educate, educate!

That said, I believe that Ana IS on the right track along with many of you, that the immune system MUST be built up. There are literally hundreds of ways to do this that are safe and scientifically proven. Here's where I differ with most of the main stream alternative types...I believe that as aggressive as the cancer is, that's how aggressive Ana has to be to rebuild her immune system. Whether she decides to juice, take supplements, do therapies, it all comes down to taking immune boosters every hour on the hour. That's one of the many secrets I learned over the years!

 My mentors taught me to sit by a patients bedside to spoon feed them nutrients if necessary. It was never about taking supplements only or doing expensive therapies. My teachers always taught that the body has to have the tools to fight, hourly or sometimes minute by minute.

 At this point however, it sounds like Ana is just worn out. Let's keep encouraging her to fight! Its been proven scientifically that loving, kind, encouraging, motivating words can actually change the cells in the human body! Keep fighting Ana and know that you are loved! We all wish the very best for you!

- Dr. Judy

motheroffoursons

Dear Judy,

You wrote "Its been proven scientifically that loving, kind, encouraging, motivating words can actually change the cells in the human body!" Can you provide a scientific study that shows any link of changing cancer cells?

You mean we can talk ourselves and our friends out of having cancer?  Just say and think happy thoughts? 

thenewme

Hi Motheroffoursons,

I started another thread about it, but actually it seems Judy believes you just have to drink alkaline water, vegetable juice, and face your fears to cure your cancer. Meh.

Hindsfeet

Dr. Judy... thank's for posting. I too believe that our God given immune system is key to our healing. The body is smart. If we give it what it needs, it knows how to repair itself. If we put crap into our bodies, crap will come out of it...physical and mental!

impositive

Ana, Hi, I was glad to see your post. Of course you are mentally and physically exhausted, how could you not be? I am so sorry that you are going through this. I wish I could help in some way. I can't offer any advice on Issel's because I dont know of anyone who has gone there. Did someone tell you about the Issel's Clinic or did you find them online? Which one are you looking into? It appears there are several locations.  The Oasis of Hope, I believe has some affiliation with Issels. It appears their treatments are a mixture of conventional and alternative. Here is a link to the Oasis of Hope.

http://www.oasisofhope.com/

There is a lot of interesting information there and sounds like they have a very integrative program. I just thought it would give you something else to check into. Cost is a major issue when considering these treatment centers. It says on the site they will work with your insurance company to try to get as much covered as possible and since some of the treatment is conventional, I think I read it could be anywhere from 20-80%.

I agree with Judy88 that there are those out there treating sick people for profit and it is outrageous. (and I'm not just talking about alternative) If we were to compare a day in a conventional hospital and a day in an alternative treatment center, the costs probably dont differ much but the quality of treatment in a reputable alternative center seems to far surpass any hospital I've been to. Everyone here probably knows how much our conventional treatments have cost and I'm referring to true cost, not our out-of-pocket expenses after insurance. The costs are phenomenal and without insurance, there are some who can not afford their disease care.  Unfortunately, people have gotten accustomed to it costing so much so we just shake our heads. 

An acupuncturist told me that in his country, they go to the doctor and the doctor charges them  when they are well. If they get sick...they dont pay.  That's true health care.  Unfortunately, all most of us see is sick care.

Keep your head up, ana. It sounds like you are being proactive in this and that's important. Dont give up and you'll find your answers.

asschercut

Judy88: Welcome aboard! Looking forward to hearing more from you...x

Anna:  Research is key. I buried my head on line and chose alternatives very carefully, spoke with many cancer patients...etc. I believe I have chosen the right protocol for my recovery. Mind you I'm still learning new things every day. The ladies here on the alternative/complementary forum are very helpful and caring people, indeed.  

I wish you all the best with your decision and recovery...x

Victoria

asschercut

thenewme wrote:

"I do believe in some complementary therapies"

"I do try to make healthy choices and do everything I can to improve my general health, including some "alternative/complementary treatments."

Really???? That's great news! Which ones have you applied to your protocol?

Perhaps you could be of some help to women that prefer to go the natural route...rather than constantly deter them?

Do enlighten us...

Victoria

chillipadi

Ana, my breast is covered with lesions, some of which have been the size of lemons, so it is easy for me to monitor progress. It's been like this for 1 1/2 years now, sometimes regressing until no more lesions can be seen. I've tried various hormonal drugs as well as chemo (Xeloda and navelbine) but not radiation. The best response I've had so far is my breast being free of visible growths for about two months.

This time around, I'm doing metronomic chemo plus Tamoxifen. Metronomic chemo entails taking low-dose oral chemo pills (cyclophosphamide daily + methotrexate 3 times weekly). Unlike chemo via infusion which hits the cancer hard and then requires a chemo break which then gives the cancer an opportunity to re-establish itself, metronomic chemo has no breaks, so the cancer is constantly being attacked by drugs which destroy the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels which feed the tumor. This then starves the cancer. You can read more about this form of gentle chemotherapy at http://healingpastures.com/2010/07/05/gentle-chemotherapy/

Anyway, I have noticed sinkholes forming in the lesions since starting metronomic chemo, and the growths have shrunk overall. There have been no noticeable side effects. Metronomic chemo is not fast like regular chemo, but there is a school of thought that the more aggressive the cancer treatment, the worse the cancer is when it returns. It took about a couple of weeks for the sinkholes to appear.

There is still some progression in my breast, but it is much slower than before. An ultrasound I did a few days ago showed no signs of the cancer having spread to nearby organs. Almost 2 weeks ago, Zoladex (to stop my ovaries from producing estrogen) was added to my treatment. Since then, I have noticed the lesions beginning to cave in more. Zoladex is considered a hormonal treatment, so  it takes time to take effect.

I don't know if you have tried either metronomic chemo or something like Zoladex, but I thought this information might help you. I am trying my best to avoid doing any further regular chemo as well as radiation, as both methods are known to be very harmful to the body.

On the natural front, I build up my immune system by juicing daily, eating heathily (mostly anti-estrogen and alkaline diet), doing brisk walking, and taking supplements for my immune system, like grapeseed extract, noni juice and VMM by Neways. I also drink a Chinese herbal tea which I brew from Oldenlandia and Scutellaria Barbata herbs, with dried Momordica Grosvenor fruit added. All these have been used for generations to fight cancer and boost the immune system. More about these herbs at http://healingpastures.com/2010/08/02/cancer-fighting-mint-plant/

Everything I have done so far, both on the natural and medical fronts, have resulted in the lesions caving in here and there. albeit gradually. Where there is progress, it is very slow. This is acceptable to me, as long as it reins in the cancer and, hopefully, eventually kills most of it. 

Incidentally, I apply tincture of iodine to the lesions and I notice that this helps to minimize the necrosis, fungating and odor significantly. Iodine is supposed to be anti-fungal, so there might be something to the theory that cancer is related to fungus (read the Fungal Theory on this forum). You can take Lugol's iodine or Iodoral orally.

Ana, hope this helps. 

ana62090

good morning everybody!

I am impressed by you respond, it is so very helpful.  You absolutely right I am very tired, and because I became disable and not as active as I was before I am very depressed and just completely lost.  It is very expensive to go somewhere for alternative treatment.  I think it is always good when you can do both alternative and traditional medicine the same time.

Everybody has cancer cells, but they suppressed by immune system, so we need to keep immune system up.

I am very tired and I don't know what to do again.