menopause and your skin

Hindsfeet

Hey, I have no problem with women, who chose to take tamoxifen or chemo. Like I said earlier, we must feel comfortable with the risk and choices we make. I'm wouldn't consider giving my opinions outside of the alternative threads. I'm here because there are women who made choices similiar to mine. This is one of the very few places where we can question and learn alternative approaches to cancer treatment & health.

I haven't read information regarding tamoxifen or estrogen that would convince me that it's all that bad. I figure...we all have cancer cells, and my defense is my immune system. I don't want to take anything to weaken my immune system, or prematurely age me.

I met a woman today, who for years worked in pharmasecual oncology. She said that tamoxifen is low grade chemo.
Diagnosis: 11/27/2008, DCIS, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+

rgiuff

So, Shanagirl, what is this product called?

Luna5

Anon...I agree that is a great web site Fairy put up and I have been reading a lot there also.

Should I be doing strontium?  I haven't even been doing calcium lately because I can't figure out if I should or shouldn't.

seaotter

Luna - PM - hlth4513- she helped me with the amount of strontium and calcium I'm taking. You have to make sure you don't take the strontium with the calcium.

Hi anon and Fairy!!!! I have missed you both!!!!  Thanks for the info!

Love to all, Patty

althea

I'm reading up on estriol also, but for reasons other than skin.  My mom has yet another uti.  She's taken cipro in the past for them, and took a round in July, and she hasn't been the same since.  I go with her to the doctor, and it might just drive me nuts!  Seems obvious to me that she's serioiusly overmedicated.  "Talk to your doctor" is very problematic when it's the doctor who's handing out the prescriptions like they're candy.  Ok, sorry for the vent.  

I'm listing a couple of links I've found so far in regard to estriol and the protection it can provide against urinary problems. 

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5576035_estriol-cream-bacteria-infection.html

http://www.vitasearch.com/CP/experts/uti.htm

The vitasearch link is an interview with Raul Raz, in which he says "Estriol, in contrast to estradiol, only has receptors in the vagina and not in the endometrium."  When I first read this, I got the impression that the vagina is the only place where estriol receptors are found.  So, when I read about people benefitting from using it topically on the face, it gave me pause.  Reading it again, I wonder if his context was just the vagina and endometrium, and upshot is the endometrium has no receptors for estriol. 

At the bottom of that same page, Raz also says estriol is contraindicated in women with "breast carcinoma, liver disease and thromboembolic events."  I can't tell if that means anyone with a history of these conditions, or just those who have those conditions currently.  Clearly, anyone here has a history of bc, and my mom does too (30 year survivor!  yee haw), and she also was hospitalized for thrombosis in 04, so she has history in that dept too.  

I'm just starting to learn about estriol, so I'm interested in hearing comments about where receptors for it are located.  My mom has another office visit soon, and I'd like to be armed with information about estriol as a treatment for uti's, so anyone with helpful links, please send them my way!  Thanks ladies.  

mollyann

Althea,

Somebody posted this video a while ago of three female gynecologists talking about vaginal atrophy--which is just an umbrella term for trouble below due to hormone deprivation. Some things don't apply to your mother but they do talk about UTs. These doctors are very conventional if that is reassuring to her. They mention breast cancer patients and say the vaginal estrogens don't affect them.

http://cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/722748

There are a number of hormone preparations in the pipeline because this atrophy condition is hitting the baby boomers. Apparently, the blood clot thing only comes from hormones taken by mouth but they put the boilerplate warning on any hormones anyway.

You may have to register for medscape to get it. Good luck !

sam52

Sorry...I am backtracking a bit and really NOT wishing to take sides or have an 'argument'  - but Iago is right : estrogen is implicated in breast cancer.Why do you think some tumors are called ER (Estrogen Receptor) positive? Because they have receptors which are are fuelled by estrogen.It is well-known that a longer than average span of menstruation is one of the contributory factors; why? because of the longer exposure to estrogen.

Tamoxifen is a SERM - a selective estrogen receptor modulator. Selective because it stops estrogen being bound to receptors in the breast, whilst actually increasing it in the uterus.Hence the increase in the thickness of the endometrium (uterine lining) which is often a consequence of taking tamoxifen.It is also sometimes used in a gynaecological setting for infertility for this reason.

Some of you seem to be misunderstanding, so I just wanted to back up what Iago and i can do this (Sue) were saying.

Sam

rgiuff

Sam, I think most of us understand that tamoxifen blocks estrogen from the breast cancer cells, and probably other areas as well, while being estrogenic to other areas such as bone and uterus. Also understood that estrogen does feed breast cancer.  And I agree that anyone who still is in the early stages of treatment, where remnants of the tumor could still be floating around, should not use any estrogen.  What is being debated is whether estrogen initiates the breast cancer and specifically which types of estrogen are most harmful.  I personally don't feel that my own natural estrogen is what initiated my breast cancer.  I started menstruation at an average age, went through 4 pregnancies, breastfed all my children for several months each, and was already perimenopausal at age 47 when I was diagnosed.  I also never took any type of birth control or hormone replacement. 

We are exposed in the environment however, to various xenoestrogens, toxic substances that add extra estrogenic activity which could work in different ways than our own estrogen.  They are also called endocrine disruptors.  These, I believe could have contributed to breast cancer starting in my case.

Estriol is being discussed here as a weaker, thereby safer estrogen.  You can google it for lots of information.  I personally feel that it's fine for vaginal use and would also use some on my face.

dlb823

Great thread, and I'm also going to ask my PCP about RX'ing Estriol for the face!  It must be the cooler weather, but my skin is absolutely horrible.  As a stop gap measure, last night I mixed a few drops of a couple of products I had around -- Squalane Oil and Emu Oil -- and used that on my face and hands and the overnight improvement was pretty obvious.  Someone had recently shared on Natural Girls re. the source of Emu Oil, so I probably won't buy that again.  But it sure helped my horribly dry & wrinkled skin, at least temporarily.    Deanna

mollyann

Apparently, this has been studied. I got this fro the College Pharmacy site.

Hormones & Skin Health: EPH Face Cream

College Pharmacy's EPH Face Cream is a unique formulation containing a low-dose estriol in a special lipodermic base containing hyaluronic acid and phospholipids. As with any compounded formulation, our EPH Face Cream does require a prescription. Please contact us is you are interested in the formulation and would like a practitioner referral. Treatment of skin aging with topical estrogens Background: The coincidence of climacteric symptoms and the beginning of skin aging suggests that estrogen deficiency may be a common and important factor in the perimenopausal woman. Often hormones have been considered important in endogenous aging of the skin, but their role has not been clearly defined. Therefore, we investigated whether topical treatment of the skin with estrogen could reverse some of the changes in the aging skin. Material and Methods: The effects of 0.01% estradiol and 0.3% estriol compounds were compared in 59 preclimacteric women with skin aging symptoms. Monthly determinations of estradiol (E2), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), and prolactin (PRL) were done and the monthly clinical monitoring was supplemented by measurements of skin hydration by corneometry and profilometry. In 10 patients, skin biopsies were taken for immunohistochemical determination of collagen types I and III. Results: After treatment for 6 months, elasticity and firmness of the skin had markedly improved and the wrinkle depth and pore sizes had decreased by 61 to 100% in both groups. Furthermore, skin moisture had increased and the measurement of wrinkles using skin profilometry, revealed significant, or even highly significant, decreases of wrinkle depth in the estradiol and the estriol groups, respectively. On immunohistochemistry, significant increases of Type III collagen labeling were combined with increased numbers of collagen fibers at the end of the treatment period. As to hormone levels, only those of PRL had increased significantly and no systemic hormonal side effects were noted. Schmidt JB, Binder M, Demschik G, Bieglmayer C, Reiner A. Department of Dermatology, University of Vienna Medical School, Austria. Int J Dermatol 1996 Sep;35(9):669-74

fairy49

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/aug2008_Estriol-Its-Weakness-is-its-Strength_01.htm

my560sel

Fairy, Thanks so much for the link - very interesting. Can I ask what type of estriol you are taking and where do you order it from?

Terri

whippetmom

Could I just blend some Premarin Vaginal Cream into my nighttime moisturizer?

fairy49

hi!

I actually go to a naturopath, and they compound the estriol for me, however I did post a link last week on this thread, but here it is again, I warm one of these pellets in my hands and rub into my face, its lovely! the skin on my face looks plumper!

http://www.helenpensanti.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EVS1

Deb, I don;t know whats in premarin? is there estriol in it?

L

ox

Luna5

Fairy, do you use the pellets for your face in addition to the estriol you have compounded?

I just looked at my compounded Estriol and it is only 1 mg, so I'm assuming based on the LE Article you posted that I could probably also use one of the pellets.

As for Premarin...it is made from pregnant mare urine...on rxlist.com it says it "contains a mixture of conjugated estrogens" and a lot of other things like propylene glycol and glycerin, etc.etc.

I couldn't find what kind of estrogens are in "mixture of conjugated estrogens".

fairy49

Luna!  yup, use both, I do.  Premarin doesn't sound good, I don't think I would use.

L

Luna5

Thank you!  So glad to have Dr. Fairy back!

whippetmom

Thanks Luna and Fairy! I finally found my box of Premarin and I agree it would be inappropriate for the face!  I'll order Fairy's pellets instead!

fairy49

Dr. Fairy LOL!!!! nope, just a wedding planner!  I have to say, this hormone stuff has pretty much consumed all of my spare time for the past two years, it really is a passion.  I love you all so much, you have no idea how much you all mean to me.

L

ox

Luna5

And therefore, you know more about it than 98% of the doctors out there.  And, no folks...I do not have a study to back up the "98%"...just makin' that up:)

painterly

Hi Fairy,

I followed the link you posted on estriol and lo and behold I already have it in my cupboard! My ND gave it to me last year, but I got frustrated trying to use it and tossed it at the back of the cupboard.

I found the capsules hard to release the estriol, i.e. I had to cut all around the capsule to get to the inside and then the capsule broke into bits.

Perhaps you can tell me what I am doing wrong.

Thanks,

Glenis

fairy49

Hi Glenis! I pm'd you!

Hindsfeet

Fairy...I order 3 items from the website you posted. I already have the progestrone cream ... Dr. Lee's recommendation. I rarely use it because it seems to give me a headache. I hope the stuff I ordered works! Will let you know  

fairy49

yay Barry!!! let us know how it goes!  what was the dose on the progesterone you were/are using, sounds like you might be using too much if you get a headache....

L

ox

whippetmom

Fairy:  I found the estriol suppositories which you use on your skin on another site for $9.50 and free shipping.  The jar is $24.00 with shipping from Helen Pesanti.

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/E3-1mg-12-lubricating-Suppositories-p/be0026.htm?click=71

whippetmom

Fairy:  I found the estriol suppositories which you use on your skin on another site for $9.50 and free shipping.  The jar is $24.00 with shipping from Helen Pesanti.

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/E3-1mg-12-lubricating-Suppositories-p/be0026.htm?click=71

Deborah

rgiuff

Whippet, I'm eager to hear how they work for you

fairy49

thanks deb!

L

ox

whippetmom

It feels very strange to rub the contents of what the packaging describes as "vaginal suppositories" on my face.  Oh, what things you will do when you are desparate.

fairy49

LOL! so true!!!